moonslav59

What I remember most about that series was the decision to use VMart over VTek as Lester's personal catcher. Yeah, Buch gave us 5 good IP and bard went 2 scoreless innings, then the roof caved in. Payback for the Hendu HR, I guess. Wagner and Papelbon let up 5 runs in 1.2 innings, and we lost 7-6.

My point was that even if he was a top 3 closer in the game, he was being paid FA money, so why give up 2 good prospects? We could have waited a year and got Jansen or Chapman and saved the kids for a another trade. Until now, I have never used Kimbrel's disappointing 2016 performance as an argument against the trade, but his performance has certainly brought more posters over to my side.

Kimbrel's contract was the main reason I hated the trade. We gave up 3 nice prospects for a RP'er! Then, the RP'er we got was being paid close to FA market money. I know we needed a closer, but the deal was just plain wrong. (I know- I've beaten the dead horse often.)

Agreed, but these guys have egos bigger than their contracts.

In mind, nobody is untouchable, but clearly there are guys you try very hard to hold onto. Here's my list of who to keep (in order): (last controlled year) 1) Betts (2020-I might try to lock him up soon.) 2) Benintendi (2022- He's got several more years of team control than Bogey & Bradley) 3) Bradley (2020- Hope for more consistency) 4) Bogey (2019- just 3 yrs left- Dubon in the wings) 5) ERod (2021 or 2022- still has enormous upside) 6) Moncada (??- still has top value) 7) Porcello (2019- high priced but indispensable) 8) Pedey (2021- still a force but will decline) 9) Groome (??- far away but with a lot of promise) 10) Kopech (??- may be ready by mid 2017) 11) Swihart (??- I feel many GM want this kid.) 12) Devers (?? May be blocked.) 13) Wright (2020- 4 years is nice) 14) Vazquez (2020- hope his offense pick up) 15) Pomeranz (2018 at a low cost) 16) Ramirez (2018 or 2019 w vesting option) 17) Leon (2019- less years than Swi & Vaz) 18) C Smith (2020) 19) Kimbrel (2017 or 2018) 20) Price (2018 or 2022 -opt out) With three catchers in my top 17 and the catcher situation in MLB at a near alltime low, I'm pretty sure that if a blockbuster is made, Swihart or Vazquez will be included. With Swihart's value higher at catcher, I think he's the one to go.With 3B in question, one could argue for keeping both Moncada and Devers until we know which one we want. I'm thinking we don't have that luxury. We are going to have to choose one and trade the other. Depending on who our trading partner is and if they want a more immediate payoff or not, I'm thinking we may get a 1 year bridge at 3B and go with Devers. Moncada has tremendously high trade value. I'm not devaluing these kids, but I think it might make more sense to trade Moncada and Swihart as part of a package to get an ace type pitcher. I think those two offer a great start to a phone call. I'm hoping the White Sox back off their demands for ML talent (JBJ) and look to the long view. They have a lot of pieces we could use, and we have plenty of young talent to offer. If we can get them to back off any of my top 5 players, I'd go all out to get Quintana (or Sale), Robertson and Todd Frazier. Maybe they'd take Moncada, Swihart, Shaw, Kopech, Basabe, Owens and Johnson. Maybe not.

I think this might be the plan, but I doubt Chapman or Jansen come here without assurances they will close. If we give them that, the second later, Kimbrel demands a trade.

...and if he lets up 5 ERs in 3 IP, what's he worth? I doubt one game makes a big difference, as I think Buch's option will be taken either way.

The first thing I would do is look hard at the manager and coaching staff. What we have seen at the end of this season is a collapse of the team and I hope it doesn't end Sunday for Ortiz, but we have played poorly. Starting pitching, closer, hitting and even field play are all suspect. It is worth asking why this should occur and who should be held accountable? Sometimes teams just slump at the same time and at the wrong time. Maybe we are reading into this "collapse" more than what is really there. We all knew this team had holes. My contention was that we had less holes than other AL teams and more team depth to deal with the holes we had than most AL teams (Wright, Shaw, Leon, Beni, Young, Holt, Hernandez, Vazquez, Moncada...). We had a very good season, but ran into a buzz saw in Cleveland. Let's hope we can turn it around, but if we don't, I'm not sure we will need to do some kind of major overhaul to be set to go farther next year. I know the loss of Papi is terrifying. Losing Uehara, Ziegler and Tazawa from an already inconsistent pen is pretty frightening as well, but this team has over $30M to spend and other assets to deal to plug the few holes we have. We also have Carson Smith returning and hopes of Wright & Pomeranz having full, healthy seasons. Clearly, JBJ, Bogaerts, Leon and Shaw have fallen into a funk at the plate. Perhaps Shaw and Leon are returning to their ability levels, but JBJ and Bogaerts appear to be better so need to be worked with for next year and hopefully return to what I perceive is a higher ability level at the plate. Perhaps, they need to work on their stamina. They both look tired. A note of caution is that be very careful about bringing in ace pitchers on big, long term contracts. We have Price now who is more of a 3rd starter than an ace. Kimbrel is another story. Great stuff but wild. Also, be wary of bringing in older field players and hitters on big, long term contracts. Sale & Quintana have very low cost contracts. With that said, I would be willing to trade away Swihart, Shaw, Johnson and Owens and roster players like HIll, Hannigan,Rutledge and Marrero. All of them together won't bring back much, except for Swihart. Hill is FA, and Hanigan's option will likely not be offerd. In the relief area I would trade Elias, Abad, Workman and Ramirez. I would be very reluctant to trade JBJ as he still has a high upside potential. The deal would need to be very enticing to let got of him. I would keep Devers for the time being as he may fill a need at 3rd, depending on how Moncada works out. I think there's a significant chance we deal either Moncada or Devers this winter. Quintana would be my SP target. We do already have a serviceable rotation so someone would wind up being pushed out. Don't know who that would be. Maybe ERod would be part of the deal to get Quintana (and hopefully Robertson too) Have looked at Robertson and I assume he is one of your targets for setup man in the 7th or 8th. Smith is returning for surgery so maybe Barnes or Hembree would fill in but Scott is a lefty or Pomeranz would fit as a long reliever. Don't forget Buch and Kelly as pen candidates. As far as lineup at the start of the season is concerned, I am assuming we don't trade JBJ away and we keep Young. Much more realistic than my blockbuster trade and mega signings. I can see us signing Beltran for DH and OF depth. EE will sign elsewhere. Lineup: 1. Pedey 2nd 2. Beni lf 3. Betts rf 4. Beltran DH 5. Rameriz 1st 6. Bogaerts SS 7. JBJ cf 8. Frazier 3rd (on your advice) 9. Leon c Remaining 25 man roster: 10. Young of 11. Henrnadez 2nd, SS 12. Holt of, if 13. Vazquez c Other reserves: Moncada 2nd, 3rd Travis 1st Dubon SS Devers 3rd Holaday c On the longer term, the hope is that Moncada can make the jump during the year and be a solid contributor after the all star break. If we do lose JBJ, then I wouldn't plan on playing Beltran in LF. Holt would be a better choice. Getting any free agent will be a competitive situation and DD is the guy who we want to make favorable trades and acquisitions for us. The jury is still out on DD for me.

Guys like JBJ don't come around very often. True, but guys like Sale or Quintana don't fall off trees either.

No rush. I'd prefer to keep JBJ, but you have to give to get, and Quintana is a gem at a low cost.

Teams are up and down all the time, oldtimer. You know that better than any of us young sprouts. Shortly before going 1-8, we were 11-0. Surely, recent past records are not very good predictors of near future events.

Yeah, you're right. We've spent Porcello & Price. Our kids have convinced many fans they were just a mirage. It's Buch or bust!

He can, and he will!

If they are willing to look "long" they may want Moncada or Devers plus Kopech or Groome and then maybe Basabe and Dubon. I guess they wanted JBJ, so maybe they are looking for ML and more "ML ready" players like JBJ + Moncada or JBJ + Kopech and Basabe. Is this blockbuster too unrealistic? Trade: JBJ, Swihart, Devers, Shaw, Owens and Johnson For: Quintana, Robertson & Frazier Sign: Encarnacion & Beltran Here's the roster (AAA/AA or high prospect): SP: Quintana, Porcello, Price, ERod, Wright, Pomeranz (Kopech/Groome/Haley) RP: Kimbrel, Robertson, Buchholz, Smith, Ross, Kelly (Barnes/Hembree/Scott/Abad/Elias/Workman/Ramirez) 1) Benintendi CF 2) Pedroia 2B 3) Betts RF 4) Encarnacion DH 5) Ramirez 1B 6) Beltran LF 7) Bogaerts SS 8) Frazier 3B 9) Leon C Reserves: C Vazquez (Holaday/Romanski/Butler) 1B (Travis/Longhi/Ockimey) 2B (Moncada) 3B Rutledge (Chavis/Dalbec) SS Hernandez (Marrero/Dubon/Chatham) LF Holt (Brentz) CF (Basabe) RF (Castillo) DH (Witte)

One game at a time.

I'm always for upgrading the rotation but only from the 1 or 2 slot. It's one reason I was against the Pom trade. I like Pom, don't get me wrong, but I had hoped we'd put together a mega package and get a real ace. Now that we have Pom, we may think we're okay at SP'ing and upgrade elsewhere only. I'm not sure I'm for trading for Quintana or Sale if the price is way too high, but ideally, I'd like to see us trade for Quintana and Robertson, pick up another solid RP'er and maybe a 1 year fix at 3B (maybe get the CWS to add Frazier to the blockbuster). Even then, we may not be top favorites, but I like this rotation: Quintana Porcello Price ERod Pomeranz/Wright/Buch

Our pen was horrible for most of the year. We picked up Ziegler, Uehara returned, and a few guys have shown flashes of high performance recently. Ziegler, Uehara and Tazawa are all free agents. No way are Carson Smith, Joe Kelly and Buch reliable role fillers for 2017. All of a sudden, based on the last couple weeks, our offense sucks and our pen is great. I'm not buying it, especially with projected pen losses to free agency. We have a solid core of young players. I'm still very optimistic about our near and far future, but we still will have serious holes to fill... beyond just Papi. I'm not against the idea of trading just about anyone, if the deal improves us for a long stretch, but just because player A and B have looked bad for a couple games or couple weeks, doesn't mean they need to be replaced.

Over-reacting to a two game sample size is the last thing we should do. We need to rebuild the pen, and I mean into a great pen, not a pen full of only promise. We could try and upgrade our rotation with another ace type (Qunitana?), but the cost may be too ridiculous. EE is an option, but my guess is he will want too many years for his age.

It seemed to be working the last couple weeks, and Barnes has not been all that great for quite a while.

I'd have taken Taz over Barnes and Hembree. He looked pretty good at the end of the season. He also has playoff experience. The choice was not that big a deal, though.

Several batters looked "lost" last night. They were flailing at balls way out of the K zone. I never seen so many check swings in all my life! Let's hope we get our timing back today. I'm predicting a 9-3 win with about 14 hits.

Their O does not look scary, but they did finish second in AL runs scored! Ahead of TOR and TEX. The run the bases well, and that got them one run last night. We had a runner thrown out. One could say, that was the difference.

Sox will win 9-3.

It's the AL Division Series. Our timing looked off at the plate. I have never seen so many check swing strikes in one game. Great RP'ing by the Guardians caused much of it. Miller- Shaw- Allen...WOW! They didn't even use Otero, who had the best ERA and WHIP in the CLE pen this year: 1.53/0.906.

Most likely for 2017, yes, unless there are multiple injuries or meltdowns to starters.