Maxbialystock

Release Swihart? He absolutely is not the problem.

Absolutely true. Hard to blame the pitching staff--including the bullpen--when the hitting is this bad. Whoops, there goes two more rubber tree plants--JBJ and Vazquez just struck out to end the 8th. I say again, this positively, absolutely is not on the pitching. it's on a bunch of candy asses who can't hit.

Pointless to blame Smith or the bullpen when the hitting is so abysmal. Indeed, that gopher pitch to Duffy was an act of mercy and put this obviously unwinnable game out of its misery. Our one big hit has been a wind-aided triple that could have been an error. And it was a lead off triple which went nowhere because--surprise,surprise--we not only can't hit, we can't even score a guy from 3b with one or no outs. Pathetic.

I think I have this right. the guys from Tampa can handle the cold. The guys from Boston can't.

Look, this is only the 3d inning of the 7th game, but I have to say the hitting this year is so pathetic--underscored by a leadoff triple and three straight batters who can't bring him home.

OK. That's officially two who don't remember seeing Price's knuckle curve before today.

Beni's CS doesn't worry me that much because our hitting is so weak. So why not gamble?

Is that knuckle curve by Price new?

Not a bad idea.

Good stuff. I have always thought Kelly was a MLB pitcher, but one to be used with caution. To me the best relievers have good breaking stuff they can control (keep it low in the zone). Kimbrel is not Kimbrel when he can't get strikes with that breaking ball. I think Kelly's fastball is fine, but not when the batter knows that's what's coming. In the infamous 8th in game 1, Kelly walked the first guy, K'd the second, and gave up a double on a slider in the geometric center of the zone to the third better. Thereafter, he relied too much on his fastball and hitting corners with it. I think both those walks were on 3-2 counts.

You always come up with cool stats. Yes, Kimbrel's .120 OPS against number in the 9th is fantastic. But I noticed it was 4 1/2 times that in the 8th inning. To me that number is a cautionary note for those who want to bring Kimbrel in early to get maybe a 2 inning save.

Interesting discussion, especially when there is a similar one ongoing about managerial decisions. In the two threads I see an interesting dichotomy. On this one moonslav has pointed out that, as barely adequate as this bullpen may or may not be, they have actually been pretty darn good over 6 games and 21 (I thought it was 22) innings if you just throw out the 8th inning of game 1. Still the consensus here seems to be that this bullpen needs to get better. Even Kimbrel had two baserunners in each of two of this three one-inning stints. Over on the other thread, no mention of course of the bullpen and hardly any mention of the 5-1 record. Instead the focus is on that 8th inning of game one, now topped by not starting Betts in RF last night. Cora, it seems, may not be clueless, but sometimes seems to be. How could anyone in his right mind leave Kelly in or not start Betts? Me, I think Cora has done a terrific job managing this pitching staff through the first six games, especially when only one starter went 7 innings, and the other five (Sale twice) went 6 or 5 innings. That reality required Cora to make a whole lot of pitching decisions, and in my view most of them turned out to be pretty darn good, especially in view of the apparent consensus on this thread that this bullpen ain't quite all it can be. I am especially fascinated by the discussion on Kelly, the lead perp in game 1, inning 8. No one here seems to think he's much good, but Cora used him to close a 2-1 game--and it worked. That's the game Velazquez started and went 5.2, followed by Walden's semi-miraculous (he was hit hard--line drive outs) 1.1 innings, Poyner's .1, Barnes's .2, and Kelly's 1 inning. To me that was brilliant managing, but also completely unacknowledged. Over on the other thread there is nary a peep or comment that just maybe Cora knows what he is doing with his pitchers, who only have the best ERA (2.20) in MLB despite the adequate bullpen and being without Pomeranz, ERod, Wright, Thornburg, et al

Tough crowd. When the Sox lose, it's because of Cora. When they win, it's in spite of him. Me, I give a lot of leeway to a new guy whose team has gone 5-1 on their first road trip.

One would think weak, but the Rays have been tough on us at the Trop, and Miami had just split 4 games with the Cubs in Chicago. Plus all 6 games were on the road. Yankees, I agree, are going to be tough, but that just gives us something to look forward to. Like every year I can remember.

I don't think your thesis holds up too well when the evidence so far is that Cora has been terrific with the bullpen,which has now pitched 23 innings in 6 games, and, indeed, that Smith and Kelly, including a save by Kelly in a 1 run game, have both pitched well since the eighth inning of game 1. I just don't think the same guy can be a blithering idiot in one game and pretty darn good in five other games. You appear to be saying, "of course he can." We get out of that infamous 8th with a 4-2 lead if Smith (not Kelly) gets Denard out instead of giving up that bases clearly triple. Since Denard, Smith has been pretty good. Our stupendous closer, on the other hand, has pitched three innings and had 2 baserunners in two of those innings. Cora to me has done a terrific job getting the right arms into games at the right times.

No Betts and no game tomorrow. Hmmm

You could be right, but in 2016 he put up some pretty good numbers.

Emp9: You're right. We (not me, but talksox overall) do know these players pretty well and possibly better than Cora. That said, I do like how Cora has handled this team in the first 5 games, including three 1-run wins. He's basically played everyone on the 25 man roster, including starting all 13 position players, even Swihart. That said, the biggest plus by far is the rotation, and most of the credit for those 5 starts redounds to the pitchers. Even there, however, he insisted on not overpitching Sale and Price in ST and limited their pitches in their first starts. I believe he is still evaluating everyone--as he should be.

Lots of excursions in this thread--all good. I do agree with the notion that managers make a difference during games. Yes, of course players make the biggest difference, but managers during games adjust fielders locations (shifts), signal baserunners, hitters, and sometimes pitches, use pinch hitters, and of course control who pitches and when. Where I part company with managerial critics is in the presumption that we know better than the managers. I did exactly that in game 1 when Kelly and Smith gave up 6 runs in the 8th, but upon reflection I decided Cora's decisions had a pretty good basis. Both are experienced relievers with a good array of pitches, but of course location is so critical every time a pitcher goes to the mound, and the manager can't be sure how that will hold up. Neither one that day had the right stuff, but even then it was a close call because we had two outs and a 4-2 lead before Denard tripled with the bases loaded. Kimbrel, our 8 figure closer, has pitched just two innings and gotten two saves. One was vintage Kimbrel and a dominant performance. The second was a tad precarious when he got the last out with the tying run on 2b and after he had given up a single and a walk. I also find it fascinating that, with all the acclaim for now five straight terrific starts (30 innings, 3 runs), few have acknowledged that Cora in all five games had to manage his bullpen through an average of 3 innings per game and that overall that has gone well--except for the disastrous 8th in game 1. Games 2, 3, and 4 were all 1-run wins, which to me means you need a decent bullpen and a manager who knows how to use it. Something else no one but me has pointed out is that in the first four games Cora used all 13 position players in the starting lineup, 4 of his starters, and all 7 relievers. In other words, to me the evidence to date is that Cora was a solid pick.

Miami split four the Cubs, so that can't be horrible. First time thru, our rotation has been astounding. Hitting seems to be picking up--we'll see. Fielding, while errorless, is at best average. Except for game 1, bullpen has been above average. Thoreau spent too much time with Walden.

That could work. Beni should maybe be even lower until he gets his swing back.

Lineup does good, but Johnson give up 2 quick singles in the 4th. Hmm.

Starting to like Johnson and really not like our putrid lineup--even though that Miami rookie seems to have pretty good stuff and pretty good command.

And a good bat by Betts, but followed by a terrible at bat by hitless Beni. Looks like bulking up might not have been the best thing for his hitting. Early days, however.

Hard to comment intelligently about those two starters, both largely unknown--about right for the 5th guys in the rotations. Richards was in AA ball last year and did well. So he's skipping a step. In the four game series at the Trop, Cora used all 13 position players, all of whom started at least one game. In addition to 4 starters, he used all 7 relievers. Can there be any doubt he wanted to see everyone play in games that counted? He also moved guys around in the batting order, but not a lot. And he let Kelly close a 2-1 game, which could well have taken a couple of months off his expected life span. Against a righty, I expect to see-- Betts Beni JD HanRam Bogaerts Devers Nunez JBJ Vazquez