Maxbialystock

Huge clutch hit/double by Duran.

Well, I've used my share of irony, so I can't complain. However, what helps mask your irony is that you almost never have anything good to say about Cora.

My goodness gracious, he certainly did. And Turner just grounded out with the bases loaded in the 7th.

Every manager in the history of MLB would have gone for the double play with the bases loaded and no one freaking out.

Winck and Crawford have both been good many times this season. Just not tonight.

I agree with Cora's moves last night and with the ones tonight. The problem is that bullpen stunk last night without Winck and Crawford and stinks again tonight with Winck and Crawford. Now 5-3, Reds. Any bets on whether the their bullpen shuts our lineup down?

Can't help but think about Cora's postgame analysis for tonight. He will assure us Paxton had a solid start--unlike that dirtbag last night--because the pitched 5 magnificent innings vs. Bello's spindly, worthless 4 innings last night. Both gave up 1 run, but Paxton is the ace, the star, the gutsy veteran. And Bello's just a rookie hoping to hang on. Bello, having watched Crawford screw up royally, can find consolation in the notion that Crawford would have stunk as much last night as he did tonight--and would certainly have been no better than Garza. The real difference between last night and tonight? Tonight the lineup scored 3 runs for Paxton vs. 0 runs for Bello.

Fine with me.

I don't. But nobody agrees with me.

What's the Harvey Korman line? "Go do the voodoo that you do so wellll!"

Who needs consensus on a blog site?

I agree.

I like Cora, but don't hesitate to criticize. In this case, I think we need to remember that the Reds manager had other relief pitchers besides the two who gave up the 8 runs. He used them because he had an 8-0 lead going into the bottom of the 7th and a 9-3 lead going into the bottom of the 9th.

Did you just say terrible starting pitching? Bello only went 4 innings, true, but he also only gave up 1 run. The bullpen, aided by Kike's errant throws, gave up the other 9 runs.

Good stuff, as always. But I thought this discussion was related to the fateful decision to send out Rodriguez to pitch the 7th last night. That decision was not my decision, nor yours. And all I'm saying is that apparently Cora wasn't so sure about the Sox ability to overcome that 3-0 lead.

Nicely said. Gotta hand it to you. Plus the Sox are still 4th in MLB in runs scored (with fewer games played, yet). So, forgetful me. And yet. The Sox have struggled lately to score runs. But moonslav's point is, what do you call 8 runs, chump change? Maybe the no name offense is ready to hit again. I sure hope so. Tonight we go against righty Luke Weaver, ERA 4.44 in May and 6.1 IP and 0 runs in his last start, against the Cardinals.

You are right, of course. I'm extrapolating. Shame on me. On the other hand, it sure looks as though Cora was doing the same dumb thing. In fact, after the game, he said the big problem for him was that his starter only went 4 innings. So clearly he was reluctant to send out Winck or Crawford when the Sox were not only behind, but being shut out by Lively, who pitched 5.2 scoreless innings. About that great come from behind Sox lineup. I'm looking for it on the Sox schedule--and, sure enough, there it is, during the 8 game winning streak in April-May. Since then (May 6), not so much. In fact, an offense that has struggled recently to score runs. Like 4 runs in 4 games against the Padres and Angels (but not having to hit against Ohtani). True, since then, the Sox did beat up Mr. Pfaadt, he of the 8.37 ERA in May. So we have that going for us. But then just 2 runs (a win) vs. the DBacks and 2 again (a loss)--before last night. So, while I would love to believe the big bats are back, I also know that all 8 runs last night were scored against lousy relievers.

I think our positions have reversed. I don't think last night's game was remotely "very winnable." And I think the facts support me. Fact: the Sox were scoreless for the first six innings against Lively, 5.2 innings, and Young .1 inning. Young, ERA 2.91, could easily have pitched a scoreless 7th inning but by then the Reds were up, 8-0, thanks to brother Rodriguez. So in came the Reds version of Brasier, Ort, Kluber, Rodriguez, whoever: Cruz, ERA 7.47, gave up 3 runs in the 7th and Salazar, ERA 16.20, gave up 5 more in the 9th. And, when things got out of control, in came Diaz for the save. The Reds were in control of this game from the 3d inning on because the Sox lineup was lifeless until the Reds went up by 8-0 and sent in their junk relievers.

Interesting. I think Cora was right last night, but have not considered when/whether pulling Rodriguez. Also, as I keep saying relentlessly, you are assuming the Reds would have sent out their lousy relievers in a close game. I am not. I believe the Reds would have continued to shut down the Sox rotten hitting beyond the 6th inning if they had needed to. Young, ERA 2.91, needed just 4 pitches to get the last out in the 6th and could easily have pitched a scoreless 7th.

I disagree, not because Winck couldn't/wouldn't have succeeded, but because the Sox hitting was dead, dead, dead until the the Red were up 8-0 and sent out their lousy relievers. As I keep reminding you, not only did Lively go 5.2 scoreless innings, but Young could easily have gone 1.1 scoreless innings but was pulled for the 7th because the Reds were up 8-0. So to me Garza, ERA 1.42, was a reasonable compromise to pitch the 5th and the 6th. He got sabotaged by the defense while at the same time the lineup was moribund.

I think our positions have reversed. I don't think last night's game was remotely "very winnable." And I think the facts support me. Fact: the Sox were scoreless for the first six innings against Lively, 5.2 innings, and Young .1 inning. Young, ERA 2.91, could easily have pitched a scoreless 7th inning but by then the Reds were up, 8-0, thanks to brother Rodriguez. So in came the Reds version of Brasier, Ort, Kluber, Rodriguez, whoever: Cruz, ERA 7.47, gave up 3 runs in the 7th and Salazar, ERA 16.20, gave up 5 more in the 9th. And, when things got out of control, in came Diaz for the save. The Reds were in control of this game from the 3d inning on because the Sox lineup was lifeless until the Reds went up by 8-0 and sent in their junk relievers.

You left out a major, major factor. Last night the Sox hitting was moribund for six freaking innings. They couldn't hit Lively, period. That's why Cora didn't want to send out Winck or Crawford. Lively went 5.2 innings, then Young, ERA 2.91, got the last out in the 6th. There is zero doubt in my mind he could also have pitched a scoreless 7th, but by then the Reds led 8-0 thanks to the Rodriguez. Rodriguez never pitches if the Sox lineup had shown any capacity whatsoever for scoring runs. The 8 they did score were off the likes of Brasier, Rodriguez, Ort, et al. I just reread your post and think we are saying the same thing. Don't waste your bullpen when your lineup is moribund.

I'm more even-handed that you give me credit for. I've already pointed out--twice--that in the postgame Cora cited Bello's 4 innings as being a major factor in the loss. That--Bello's 4 innings--and the abysmal hitting by the Sox for the first 6 innings have to be why Cora didn't use Winck. As I just said on the game thread, sending Garza out for 1 or 2 innings was a good interim move. Lively went 5.2 scoreless innings, then Young (ERA 2.91) got the last out in the 6th. He didn't come back for the 7th because by then the Reds were up 8-0. So in came Cruz, ERA 7.47, who promptly gave up 3 runs. So, even though Bello--in my opinion--pitched a very gutsy 4 innings, it was just short enough--your 5 innings to be covered by the bullpen--along with the lousy hitting by the lineup for the first six innings, to persuade Cora not to use Winck.

When Duvall returns, I agree four good hitting outfielders: Yoshida (OPS .875), Duran (OPS .809), Duvall (1.544), and Verdugo (.825). However, of those four, Yoshida is a distant 4th (DWAR -0.7) as a fielder. And let's not forget that both Refsnyder (OPS .792) and Tapia (OPS .726) are also better fielders than Yoshida. So to me there is no way, no how Dalbec gets to DH because that is going to be reserved for Yoshida--good bat, so-so glove. Back to you.

Yeah, I did think about that. As I said, yesterday was a day off, as was last Thursday. Winck pitched 3 on Friday, a 7-2 win. Crawford pitched 2.1 on Saturday, a 2-1 win. And Pivetta pitched 3 on Sunday, a loss. Kluber's on paternity leave. So last night when Bello finished the 4th and the Sox were down just 1-0, Cora had to decide if this game was worth going after. If it was, Winck was the guy to send in because 4 days was plenty of rest. However, Crawford threw just 27 pitches on Saturday, so he could have pitched the 5th and 6th innings yesterday. On the other hand, the Sox were behind--not ahead--by 1 run. And, while they threatened in the 2d inning--until Tapia struck out with the bases loaded--they went down in order in the 1st, 3d, and 4th innings. In fact, Lively pitched 5.2 innings while giving up no runs, no BB's, and getting 6 K's. So, yeah, maybe Cora made the right decision in the 5th inning when he sent Martin out. If he held the line for an inning or two, Cora could always use Winck or Crawford, especially if the lineup showed any signs of life. And that only happened after the Reds were up 8-0 and pretty sure to win.