Maxbialystock

Agree.

Bad throw, but also a slow release. I can't be sure if Arroyo had to wait until the pitcher got out of the way.

Has to be said. We were all clamoring for another starter when the real problem is the bullpen. And the infield defense.

Same pitch--91 mph sinker down--that the batter before Raleigh got a double off.

Infield again a bunch of clowns.

In his five July starts Crawford averaged 80 pitches, and today he threw 81 pitches. So, no, not overmanaging. Schreiber should have been a good call, but today he stinks.

You spoke too soon. Seattle is hitting him hard because today he stinks.

I think you're wrong. Our collective opinion--replete with contradictions though it always is--is probably more relevant than theirs is because they are focused on the here and now. Plus they are both paid huge sums in guaranteed money. Bloom--and all the people on talksox who agree and disagree with him--has a better perspective on what makes sense for this team this year as well as next year and the year after. I think 3 factors weighed against going after a good starter-- 1. Too expensive in prospects/salary. 2. Three starters--or Sale and two long relievers, Houck and Whitlock--are headed back to the Sox this month and cost nothing in additional funds and/or good prospects sent elsewhere. 3. This team has a good shot at the playoffs, but probably isn't good enough, even with an added starter from elsewhere, to win it all. This isn't 2013 or 2018 redux.

I disagree. I think Bloom believes the Sox have a good shot at getting to the postseason. But spending big (money and/or prospects) for another starter would be justified only if the goal was to win the WS. For that to be the case, on July 31 the Sox had to have comfortable lead in the AL East.

What opinion on Henry? I'm interested because JH is easily the best owner the Sox have ever had if you go by WS wins, etc. He has also show little hesitation in firing managers--Cora is his 5th--or GM/VP's--Bloom is also his 5th.

I basically agree on how JH sees things, which I like to call a sea change because he chose an executive coming from the Tampa Rays system, where they excel at spotting and developing talent without spending big bucks for it. I think the disaster of the 2019 Sox team, coming as it did immediately after the incredible success (with very talented players in both seasons) of 2018, convinced him to try something different. As you have said, for decades the Sox have been good at developing position players, but not pitchers, whom they routinely acquired on the open market (and paid good money for). That's how they ended the 86 year drought and then won 3 more WS, more than any other MLB team, 2003 to today. Today it sure seems as though you can pay a lot of money and players for just one starter--and not get that much in return. Price and Sale of the 2019 Sox team are the perfect example. I believe the White Sox got prospect Moncada as part of the Sale sale.

In another sphere of endeavor a reliable maxim is to reinforce success, not failure. This year's Sox are by no means a failure and are in fact fun to watch. But they aren't at all like the 2013 and 2018 teams who just needed that little extra boost in the postseason, not to get there.

Ahem. My rejoinder is that the reinforcements are Sale, Houck, and Whitlock, none of whom requires a trade. Same goes for Story. As for all the beat writers, announcers, etc, etc, they are unreliable on this topic because every single one of them wants maximum exchange of players so they have something to talk or write about. They also want huge salaries to talk about.

I think you also said that before the road trip. I was more optimistic and would point out that 2 of the 3 losses were each by 1 run and lost in the 9th and 11th innings. The latter was egregious because the Sox didn't score in the 10th or 11th innings despite starting each with a man on 2b. Today it's righty Gilbert who has 11 quality starts out of 21 total and a WHIP of 1.06. His OPS against vs. lefties is .677 and righties .638, and Seattle won all 5 of his starts in July. Four of them were quality starts including a 9IP shutout July 4 vs the Giants. Sox are going with a "balanced" lineup (without Turner, who's hurt): Duran LF Dugo RF Yoshida DH Devers 3B Duvall RF Casas 1B Arroyo 2B Wong C Chang SS

Interesting. I agree completely that managers and CBO's are hired to be fired. In fact, I think Cora is John Henry's 5th manager and Bloom is his 5th CBO. That said, however, I do like Cora as a manager. In 2018 he managed the best Sox team ever (which also had lots of talent). In 2021 he managed a far less talented team to the ALCS--without a closer. And this year he sure seems to be doing a heckuva job. As for Bloom, I like that he came from the Rays system because they have repeatedly demonstrated they can field good teams without paying top dollar. I agree it remains to be seen whether he is the right guy for the Sox, but also believe that John Henry wants a sea change in the Sox approach to constructing the MLB roster. This year's Sox collective salaries are ranked 15th in MLB, the lowest in the John Henry era and probably the lowest in the last 40 years.

A fair point. My rebuttal begins by characterizing 2020 as a covid nonseason when Cora was also banned. It simply shouldn't count. So that gets us to 3 seasons, the first of which, 2021, was better than any of DD's seasons except 2018 because in 2021 the Sox made it to the ALCS. Let's also not forget that throughout his reign DD had more talent and a lot more money to spend. Since Chaim Bloom took the reins, John Henry has insisted on both a reduced budget and the avoidance of big contracts for starters, which were the hallmark off DD's tenure. 2022, agreed, was sorry, but let's not forget than last year the AL East was, like this year, a juggernaut, and last year the Sox played each of the other four AL East teams 19 times (76 games, almost half the season). As for the this year, I'm fine with standing on whatever happens even though this year's Sox salaries are 15th in MLB, the lowest ranking in the John Henry era and probably the lowest ranking in the last 40 years.

Agree. Between now and the Detroit series (Aug 11-13) when Sale should be available to start and maybe go 4 innings, the Sox-- Play 1 more in Seattle (Crawford starting tonight), Get tomorrow off, Play 3 (Aug 4-6) vs. the Jays with Paxton, Pivetta and the bullpen starting, Play 4 vs. the Royals (Aug 7-10) with Bello, Crawford, Paxton, and Pivetta starting, Play 3 vs. the Tigers (August 11-13) with Sale, Bello, and Crawford starting, Get a day off August 14, And then go 16 straight games/days, Aug 15-30, with a 5 man rotation, but with the possibility of mixing in bullpen starts, especially after Whitlock and Houck rejoin the team sometime between 21 and 30 August. 31 August and 7 September are days off.

Hah! I just now read this--after having said almost exactly the same thing on 2 other threads. I think Sale, who started yesterday at Worcester and went 40 pitches (0 runs, 1 hit, 2 BB's, 3 K's), will be back for the Seattle series, August 11-13, and that Whitlock and Houck will be back about 10 days after that. My conclusion, of course, is that the real reason for no big trades is that, with the returns of Story, Sale, Houck, and Whitlock, this is a pretty good Sox team. It's not as good as the 2018 and 2013 teams, both of which acquired starters (Eovaldi in 2018 and Peavy in 2013) for the stretch run, but good enough to compete and to get even better in 2024.

And they are absolutely right. This team is a complete shambles. Or maybe not. Consider-- 1. Story is due back this weekend, which means three good infield bats--Devers, Story, and Casas--every day. And a 4th, Turner at 2b, when Cora thinks he needs him there so Casas can play 1b and Yoshida can DH. And some combo of Reyes/Chang/Arroyo to help with the defense. 2. Four good bats--Yoshida, Duran, Duvall, and Dugo--in the outfield plus Refsnyder, who is really good vs lefties. Yoshida and Turner share the DH slot, depending on how Cora shapes his day to day lineups. Also, Duran has stolen 23 bases, been caught twice, and forced a bunch of errors that led to additional bases not counted as stolen. 3. Two good catchers, Wong and McGuire (who bats lefty and hit that dinger last night in his first game back). 4. When Sale returns, which could happen as soon as the Detroit series, August 11-13, a pretty good rotation--Paxton, Bello, Sale, Pivetta, and Crawford. If you go by quality starts, they are the best Sox rotation since 2018--barring further injuries, of course. 5. When Houck and Whitlock return 10-15 days after Sale and presumably go to the bullpen, a pretty good bullpen: Jansen, Whitlock, Houck, Martin, Bernardino, Schreiber, Winckowski, and TBD. 6. Of the above, Devers, Story, Casas, Duran, Yoshida, Wong, McGuire, Dugo, Bello, Crawford, Pivetta, Shreiber, Whitlock, Winckowski, and Houck are all age 30 or younger. Those 6 sniveling points notwithstanding, I'd say Chaim Bloom is the worst MLB GM since, I don't know, maybe Branch Rickey.

I know, I know. It's just crushing. How will life go on for Sox fans? Well, consider-- 1. Story is due back this weekend, which means three good infield bats--Devers, Story, and Casas--every day. And a 4th, Turner at 2b, when Cora thinks he needs him there so Casas can play 1b and Yoshida can DH. And some combo of Reyes/Chang/Arroyo to help with the defense. 2. Four good bats--Yoshida, Duran, Duvall, and Dugo--in the outfield plus Refsnyder, who is really good vs lefties. Yoshida and Turner share the DH slot, depending on how Cora shapes his day to day lineups. Also, Duran has stolen 23 bases, been caught twice, and forced a bunch of errors that led to additional bases not counted as stolen. 3. Two good catchers, Wong and McGuire (who bats lefty and hit that dinger last night in his first game back). 4. When Sale returns, which could happen as soon as the Detroit series, August 11-13, a pretty good rotation--Paxton, Bello, Sale, Pivetta, and Crawford. If you go by quality starts, they are the best Sox rotation since 2018--barring further injuries, of course (a pretty big if). 5. When Houck and Whitlock return 10-15 days after Sale and presumably go to the bullpen, a pretty good bullpen: Jansen, Whitlock, Houck, Martin, Bernardino, Schreiber, Winckowski, and TBD. 6. Of the above, Devers, Story, Casas, Duran, Yoshida, Wong, McGuire, Dugo, Bello, Crawford, Pivetta, Shreiber, Whitlock, Winckowski, and Houck are all age 30 or younger. So, yeah, it looks really, really grim for the future and Chaim Bloom is a nut case and should never have been hired.

Not luck. Toughness.

Bello now stands at 48 pitches (and 1 run) in 4 innings. Who woulda thunk that after inning #1? I'd say McGuire is good to have back. Plus the solid sac fly and an rbi.

Yoshida doubles, the idiot Seattle pitcher walks Devers and hits Duvall to load the bases, and Arroyo comes through big time as does McGuire. Bottom of the order knocks in all 3 runs!

Another bold prediction that crashes and burns.

Could not be happier than to eat those words. Great finish to the 1st, holding the Mariners to 1 run!