Elktonnick

Reading John Henry's bio one gets the clear impression that he doesn't let subjectivity color his business decisions.

Also very similar to the way Tito was let go. I think because we fans see so much wrong with the club we think ownership sees and thinks the same. I watched Gammons interview. He clearly was holding back some of the more spicy details. The sense I got from Gammons was that DD would have been allowed to finish out the year but some one got their back up last night and the decision was made right then and there in a relatively hasty fashion. Apparently leadership style has been an issue for sometime and there were rumors last year but the euphoria of the big season pushed everything to the back burner but DD never got the extension immediately after the big win which while not totally unusual certainly sent the signal that ownership had concerns. Many of the talking heads on MLB today expressed concerns that firing DD after firing Cherrington and their mishandling of Francona's firing is going to complicate Sox hiring a new chief of baseball operations. Word is that the Sox would love to get Mike Hazen but that may not be possible.

Peter Gammons more less agreed with Russo.

Peter Gammons gave a more detailed rundown of DD's last day. It seems that DD had basically isolated himself from the rest of the front office and minor league managers. While he did have a good relationship with Cora, DD's leadership style wasn't "collaborative" enough to suit ownership. DD apparently had some kind of issue with one of the owners according to Gammons. Baseball reasons of course were at the bottom of it all but fundamentally it was that DD simply did not get along with many in the front office so he wasn't going to get a contract extension. DD brought it to a head with one of the owners last night and that sealed his fate. Gammons made it clear that it was more leadership style than the baseball moves that he made or didn't make.

Obviously we won't know unless or until the Red Sox are more forthcoming. Russo specifically mentioned the fact that the Sox did not do a major new conference which he suggests supports the firing was based on leadership style and personal behavior. If I remember correctly Shaughnessy's original article intimated that there were personal style issues with Dombrowski and the rest of the front office.

Today on High Heat on the MLB Channel Chris Russo claimed that baseball operations reasons are a cover for the real reasons DD got fired. Chris "Mad Dog" Russo believes that Dombrowski was not fired because of baseball reasons. Russo cites unspecified rumors circulating for more than a year that Dombrowki was fired for his "leadership style and personal behavior ". Simply put he wasn't well liked by most folks within the front office. He pissed people off.

Shocked. Never thought John Henry would fire Dombrowski before Cora. I guess Henry puts all the blame on DD. Ole Shaughnessy was right after all. Apologies to Dan Shaughnessy.

To get back to JBJ, the fact that Cora has been sitting him down more and more leads me to believe that he is more likely than not going to be moved this upcoming offseason. I am not arguing for or against such a move simply drawing an inference from management's increased preference not to have him start especially against lefties.

I hope that pro football eventually becomes much less popular. Without becoming too philosophical, two of the reasons, but not the only ones certainly, football became more popular was that it was more conducive to television and easier to bet on. Right now in this area at least the sport that is having the most growth and is attracting more enthusiasm among the younger set isn't American football nor soccer but lacrosse.

I don't want to quibble but since the advent of the Patriots and Tom Brady it has been noted that pro football especially the Patriots has eclipsed the number one status of the Red Sox in the hearts of New Englanders as much as we may wish to deny it. Admittedly this is especially hard for me because I am not a big football fan nor do I watch the NHL or the NBA. The sad fact is baseball is losing its fanatics to other sports. I see this in my 11 grandsons of whom only two play or follow baseball to any degree. This BTW isn't purely an academic discussion especially to an owner like John Henry who I certainly agree is without a doubt the best current owner in baseball and is generally recognized as such by many sportswriters. This competition for both the affection of local fans and continued willingness to pay some of the highest ticket prices in baseball is why Henry is unlikely to ever rebuild as some might suggest but rather will opt for a strategy of reloading. He knows that the Red Sox must field a competitive team every year. It isn't just the Yankees that he worries about. It is the Patriots and Bruins as well

The following statement was made: "John Henry is the greatest owner in New England sports history and its not even close." So it wasn't just confined to baseball. Most Native New Englanders are fans of teams other than the Red Sox as well. The original statement was pertinent to the entire scope of New England Sports history. While John Henry did end the baseball drought the New England Sports landscape is much broader and richer than just baseball. The man who did more than anyone else to ensure that broad rich landscape was Walter Brown. Simply put neither the Boston Bruins nor the Boston Celtics would exist at least not in Boston if it hadn't been for Walter A. Brown and Boston and all of New England would be a lot less interesting to local sports fans.

Brown was the sole owner until his death. Henry's accomplishments although outstanding pale in comparison to what Walter Brown did for Boston Sports which include six world titles, being the original owner of the Celtics, co founding the NBA and literally saving the Boston Bruins. Like I said he is in BOTH the hockey and basketball halls of fame as well as having made the Boston Marathon one of the world's premier sporting events. Henry may be one of the best current owners in professional sports but his accomplishments for New England by any objective analysis don't measure up to Walter Brown's, at least not yet.

The point is that JBJ is NOT the best defensive CF currently playing. His defense although at times spectacular can be replaced at a reasonable cost. So there are options other than JBJ for Boston.

John Henry has his place but we old timers remember Walter A Brown who not only was the original owner of the Boston Celtics and one of the founders of the NBA but saved the Boston Bruins which he bought in 1951. As great Henry is, he can't match Walter Brown's contributions to two great Boston professional franchises nor his contribution to the Boston marathon. Brown is in both the Basketball and Hockey Halls of Fame. The Celtics won 6 world titles in 7 years before his death at a very young 59 in 1964.

We see JBJ every day so Sox fans tend to over rate JBJ compared to Keirmeier but whenever the Sox play the Rays even the NESN announcers recognize Keirmeier's prowess. Keirmeier has two gold gloves. He didn't play last year due to injury and not the full year in 2017 but that year he came in second place in Defensive Runs Saved at center field with 22, a career low, and short only of the Minnesota Twins' Byron Buxton, whom led with 24 Defensive Runs Saved, even though Kiermaier played in over 300 less innings than Buxton. When healthy he clearly is not only the better defender than JBJ he has the better more accurate arm and is better at the plate.

JBJ is an excellent CFer. However he isn't the greatest defensive centerfielder. In fact he isn't even the best defensive centerfielder in the division. Kevin Kiermaier has better defensive metrics.

I think this article explains why many think Iglesias is a lousy team mate. Shortstop Jose Iglesias played for the Detroit Tigers in 2013, and 2015-2018. He was an All-Star in 2015 when he batted .300 in 120 games. Jose Iglesias played four full seasons for the Detroit Tigers, but it seems like he was here for a decade. This offseason the enigmatic shortstop will change uniforms, exercising his free agent rights. There’s little chance the Tigers will make an offer to retain him. It’s hard to find fans in Detroit who will miss Iglesias. His tenure in Detroit was strange, uneven, and controversial. But mostly it was disappointing. Iglesias came to the team in a three-team trade in the middle of the 2013 season that cost Detroit young outfielder Avisail Garcia and reliever Brayan Villarreal. At the time, the 23-year old Cuban was filling in at short for the injured Stephen Drew for the Red Sox. He surprised the Boston brass by getting hot at the plate, he was hitting over .400 on July 4th. Iglesias was considered a one-trick pony: a flashy defensive whiz who couldn’t hit much. There were questions of whether he would ever hit well enough to be in a lineup regularly. Some in the Boston front office thought Iglesias was destined for a utility player role. But the hits kept coming in the summer of 2013 and when Drew came back from his injury, the Sox had a decision to make. General Manager Ben Cherington didn’t hesitate: he dealt Iglesias at the July 31 trade deadline, acknowledging that Iglesias’ recent hitting spree inflated the young player’s value as high as it might ever be. Detroit GM Dave Dombrowski needed Iglesias, but he couldn’t tell anyone exactly why. Since spring training, Major League Baseball had been investigating a drug scandal at Biogenesis, a lab that had supplied performance-enhancing drugs to players for several years. Detroit shortstop Jhonny Peralta’s name had been linked to Biogenesis since February. Initially Peralta strongly denied having used PEDs. Then, in June his denial was less adamant, then he went silent. Dombrowski knew that MLB would hand down suspensions in early August. With Peralta’s head in the noose, he knew almost certainly that his star shortstop would be suspended. Sure enough, on August 5, Peralta’s name was included among the 13 who were suspended for PED usage via the Biogenesis lab. Peralta’s penalty was 50 games, meaning he would essentially miss the rest of the regular season. Dombrowski saw Iglesias as insurance. The Tigers won their third consecutive division title in 2013, and after July it was never in doubt. In his first week with the team, Iglesias never saw them lose, as the Tigers finished off a 12-game win streak. Iglesias teamed with second baseman Omar Infante for the balance of the season. After the trade, Iglesias batted .259 in 46 games with a pair of home runs. It was in the field where he turned heads, making flashy plays, including several off-balance throws. The Cuban shortstop made just two errors in 45 games at shortstop for Detroit. Peralta returned for the final weekend of the regular season and the playoffs in 2013, but he left Motown as a free agent that winter. Which left the shortstop job to Iglesias. But “Iggy” wan’t able to do that job in 2014 because he suffered shin splints in both legs. Most likely the cause of the injuries was twofold: a sudden increase in training and a genetic condition that affects Iglesias’ feet. He wears inserts in his shoes to alleviate the shape and bone weaknesses in his feet, but at some point Iglesias overtrained or trained too much too quickly and caused inflammation and damage to his legs. The injuries proved serious and Iglesias missed the entire season. Maybe it was his lost ’14 season that caused Detroit fans to have uncomfortable feelings about Iglesias. Just as they were getting to know him, he disappeared. To further complicate the relationship between the starting shortstop and the fans, it was just beginning of his injury saga. Barely three weeks into the 2015 season, Iglesias made an awkward attempt to make a game-ending double play in Tampa against the Rays. He crossed in front of second base with the ball, tripped on the bag, and while falling forward he fired to first off-balance. The throw went wide and the Rays scored the winning run. As his teammates walked off the field, Iglesias lay on the ground hurt. When he tripped over the bag, Iglesias had fallen into the sliding Tampa runner, taking a knee to his head. He tore up his knee and more seriously, probably suffered a concussion. He missed three weeks that season to that injury and others. More injuries, and controversy followed later in the season. On August 7, 2015, in a game against his former team at Comerica Park, Iglesias and teammate James McCann fought in the dugout, a fracas that was caught on camera. During the contest a grounder was hit up the middle on the shortstop side of second. Iglesias ran after the ball but didn’t seem to run that hard. The ball ended up passing him into center field, a few feet from his left. It seemed to McCann from his position at catcher that Iglesias could have dove for the ball. After the inning, McCann barked at Iglesias over the play, the shortstop shoved McCann, and the teammates had to be separated. After the confrontation, Anthony Gose got in Iggy’s face. Iglesias made the All-Star team in 2015 on the strength of a hot first half at the plate. He would make great plays in the field that people said they’d never seen before, but then in the next game he would lazily run after a line drive. In many cases others around the league loved him more than we did, because they only saw him in three-game chunks. The warts were hidden. Iglesias cooled in the second half of the 2015 season, he continued to struggle to hit the slider or a curveball. Throughout his career he’s essentially been a predictable first-ball fastball hitter. No grinding out at-bats, no discernment or careful approach to hitting. Throughout his career, Iglesias has been a contradiction. On the one hand he can look fantastic in the field, ranging far and wide to gather groundballs and executing off-balance throws. His hands are fast and his movements are fluid, he’s excellent at going back and catching pop flies in the short regions of the outfield. But on the other hand, the man they call “Little Flame” can be nonchalant, casual in his approach to fielding routine balls. He doesn’t like to dive and he can look bored and disinterested. His body language can be bad, and that pissed off some of his teammates. While he was a Tiger, Iglesias burned through mentors. Infante tried to council the young infielder early on, then it was Victor Martinez, a respected team leader who often takes it on himself to work with young Latin players. Finally, Miguel Cabrera took Iggy under his wing after the 2017 season. That year, Iglesias went on the disabled list for the fourth straight season as a Tiger. Cabrera was determined to work hard in the offseason to strengthen and reshape his body, having suffered nagging injuries as he headed into his mid 30s. In the winter, Cabrera shepherded Iglesias to join him in working with the personal trainer that has previously helped Lebron James and many NFL players stay fit. But while Cabrera showed up for the intense workouts, Iglesias was a no-show more than once. That’s the thing about Iglesias and his tenure with Detroit: he’s gifted but he doesn’t respect his gift. He lives on raw talent alone. He hasn’t improved in any area of his game: Iglesias still swings at bad pitches (he walked 40 times combined in 2017-18); he has reported to camp overweight; he’s failed to add power to his game. Under new manager Ron Gardenhire he did agree to steal more bases, but he also makes as many boneheaded base running plays as anyone on the team. What will the legacy be of Iglesias in Detroit? Sadly, there won’t be much of one. Maybe we shouldn’t blame him. He came here as insurance, he was always a set piece, a side dish to the Kinsler’s and Cabrera’s and Hunter’s who were around here. But he also had a light that he never seemed to switch on, a level he never bothered to go to, a gear he never used. For that reason, we never really knew how good Iglesias could be. Comments 0 comments Tags: Detroit Tigers, Jose Iglesias About Dan Holmes The editor of Detroit Athletic Co. blog, Dan Holmes is the author of Ty Cobb: A Biography. He previously worked for the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum in Cooperstown, NY, and worked for Major League Baseball as a web producer. He contributed to Sock it to 'Em Tigers: The Incredible Story of the 1968 Detroit Tigers, and Deadball Stars of the American League. Follow him on Twitter at @thedanholmes or visit his personal blog at danholmes.com.

Yes I was. I almost put in the post words to the effect despite Dan Shaughnessy's views. The reason why I think Shaughnessy is wrong is Dombrowski has had a long standing relationship with Henry. No way would have DD brought in Tony LaRussa without clearing it with Henry who grew up as a Cardinal fan. Shaughnessy specifically cited LaRussa close relationship with DD as one of the reasons DD was isolating himself from others in Red Sox baseball ops. DD is too smart and been around too long not to have outlined his approach to this year to Henry well before the season began. Henry's only public comments about this year appear to have been more of a critique of Cora than of DD. Plus replacing a head of baseball operations such as Dombrowski is a lot riskier than replacing a field manager. There are many excellent potential candidates who could be more than adequate to fill Cora's shoe should Henry be so inclined which I don't seriously think he is after only one bad year. Replacing a head of baseball ops is a whole other kettle of fish, the list of truly viable candidates is quite small. Plus as in the case of Theo Epstien, and Ben Cherrington, Henry would make no such move unless he had a replacement in mind and would be reasonably assured that his preferred replacement was ready willing and able to take the job. The baseball fraternity is quite small, I am positive we would have heard rumblings about such a move from some one other than Dan Shaughnessy who despite being a Globe employee I don't think is on Henry list of trusted confidantes especially after he co authored Terry Francona's book which didn't cast Red Sox ownership in the most favorable light. That being said this all speculative and like reading the tea leaves much like trying to determine who was on the way up and who was on their way out in the old Soviet Union by their position on top of the Kremlin wall during May Day parades just after Stalin's death.

As for DD, I think he handled this year exactly the way John Henry wanted him to. Henry obviously is nobody's fool. He knew the financial situation better than anyone. They gambled that they could make minimal changes and still make the playoffs in a relatively weak division compared to years past. Well it didn't pan out. As much as we fans want a scalp no one in management is likely to lose their job over this years poor performance save perhaps Dana Lavangie the pitching coach who was an odd choice in the first place. There will be many changes over the winter in the 40 man roster but I wouldn't expect there to be any major trades of the core players, meaning anyone whose last name begins with a B. This coming winter like last the Sox will be looking for pitching and a possible 2nd baseman. That's where the moves will be made and DD will the one charged with making those moves. I expect Cora will be retained but kept on a very short leash. I do not expect there will be a repetition of last year's spring time leisure camp.

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head when you questioned how oblivious the front office to the pulse of the team. This seems to coincide with Dan Shaughnessy's observation that DD has isolated himself from the rest of management.

It is hard to ascribe the 2018 pitching results to a person who never threw a pitch in his life in organized baseball competition or who had never been a pitching coach anywhere except his brief stint as bullpen coach. I always thought his selection had more to due with personality and patronage than actual knowledge of pitching or pitching mechanics. He simply was in the right place at the right time.

You pick coaches not for flash in the pan results but the long haul.

BTW Does any one still believe that Cora is the greatest manager in Red Sox history.

Its not that the pitching coach should be fired it is that he should have never been hired for that job in the first place. As near as I can determine he has never thrown a baseball to a batter in any game in organized baseball at any level. He simply was not qualified for the job. As they used say you don't appoint a chiropractor to be surgeon general.

Former major league pitcher and PHD in Kinesiology Mike Marshall is a major proponent of the screwball. His views are controversial but here is an article from SABR published in the fall of 2011, Dr Mike Marshall says, “Throwing screwballs is safer than throwing pitches that require baseball pitchers to supinate their pitching forearm through release.” Supinating the forearm means turning your left hand counter-clockwise away from your body with the thumb up, the way a left-handed pitcher throws a curve; pronating the forearm is the opposite motion, the screwball delivery. Marshall threw his screwball more than one-third of the time, far more often than Hubbell. He has never had arm surgery. Both men said pronating the forearm does not increase stress on the elbow, compared with a fastball or curve. In fact, Fleisig’s groundbreaking motion analyses show that a curve produces no more force and torque on elbow and shoulder than a fastball, annihilating another of baseball’s conventional wisdoms. As for bone chips, Fleisig said, “Even a pitcher with good mechanics, if you pitch a lot, you can eventually get bone chips.” The prejudice against the pitch remains strong, despite lack of evidence. Besides Juan Marichal and Mike Marshall, the only prominent screwballers since Hubbell were Warren Spahn, who pitched until he was 44, and Fernando Valenzuela, whose career was shortened by a bad shoulder, not an elbow injury. Today pitchers get a similar action—an opposite break from the curveball—with two-seam fastballs and circle change-ups. The screwball’s time has probably passed, though it never really came. WARREN CORBETT is a contributor to SABR’s Biography Project and the author of "The Wizard of Waxahachie: Paul Richards and the End of Baseball As We Knew It". He lives in Bethesda, Maryland.