jung

Hate to ask kapsis but do you have anything on the guys that pitched ahead of Bailey today?

To be honest I am just as concerned that the Sox have not been able to help Bard past his mechanical issues regardless of whether or not he starts. This kid is a real talent and the Sox cannot seem to help him get settled into his motion before he has done damage to himself. When he is off, his motion is a real mess. His front leg is way out in front and there is no way for him to recover. Geez come on coaches. Help this kid get fixed!

In fact all pitchers end up pitching all over the place in ST. However I do think it is hard to get an accurate read on what a closer will do unless he is in position to close. There is something to be said for putting him in the role he is designed for especially when it relates to closers. Point being I guess I am not quite as concerned as I would be if he had actually blown a save.

Is Bailey closing today or is in yet another of these relief roles? Bailey needs to be put in position to close. However if that is where he is today and he blew the lead, that is not what I would hope for.

I am not sure V wants Bard in the pen. I am convinced he wants Bard to stop walking the first guy that walks to the plate in any given inning cause you simply cannot win that way. However my concern is that mechanics are the issue for Bard. It was the issue for him last year, this year exacerbated by the number of innings he is pitching in any given game and as prep for starting and yet nobody has really helped him find a way to settle into his motion early in innings. Common' Sox coaches, show us some of why you should earn your pay. I think V would be fine with Bard in the rotation if that is what the FO wants if he can tame the ball:strike ratio and cuts into the walks and take Iggy on the opening day roster if the FO allows him to do that.

As much as I really really like Iggy and his game, I was on the fence about him starting the season as the Sox SS. However the more I have seen of Aviles the less impressed I have been mainly because his range at SS is much worse than I thought it would be and because I am not convinced that he can provide enough pop with his bat to make up for his shortcomings at SS. Hard for me to accept Aviles with Iggy sitting there. Also while I would like Iggy to have more of an opportunity to improve his hitting against lower level pitching, I believe he will win the Sox games this season if given the job, especially if he is here as a defender and allowed to simply do what he can do offensively. In effect we would be allowing him to try to learn how to hit ML pitching. It is true that if you never let a kid see something he can hit, he may never hit anything. However it appears to me that Iggy is always going to earn his keep with his glove. That is already here.

I would like to see Avilas as more of a utility player as well because his range is far worse at SS than I expected it to be. This is SS we are talking about and the cavalier attitude these Sox have about defense at SS is reminiscent of the old bash down the walls Red Sox of old that featured sub-standard pitching and defense but had balls to the walls offense. Pose this question: Based on what you have seen do you think that Iggy will get to at least one more ball per week than Aviles will get to? Translate that into DP's made and runs saved and then tell me how it makes sense to send Iggy back down.

Did you hear V on Iggy today. "He has major league hitting and fielding ability but I am not sure he will be able to perform for this major league team....for this group". What the hell does that mean? Does it mean that the FO has committed to these two guys...Aviles and Punto and that is that? What the hell am I supposed to take from that? Frankly I have not been blown away by Avilas so far. That is probably my one issue with sending Iggy back down. So far it has been Avilas range at SS that has really been something of a surprise this spring. Did not think it has been this bad in the past but I cannot even call his range at SS average at this point. This is SS we are talking about. How many more balls do you thing Iggy gets to over the course of a season than Avilas for what will likely be a pitching staff looking for help? How many more DP will they turn with Iggy? I guess V has already determined that the outfield arms are such that the middle infielders will be the cutoff men in all cases this season going out to short outfield to relay the throw into the catcher....that sounds wonderful!

All reasonable expectations except for one undeniable fact. It is difficult to come back from behind in games where you hand the game over to the pen while you are behind. How much was last night a reminder of last year. Frankly I think that is particularly true of this Sox pen. Bard ends up handing over the ball behind 3-2 and while it was only a ST game what was the final score? 9-2 Jays. the 3-2 deficit was a direct result of the walks in the 2nd and the Sox never recovered. You cannot walk lead off batters and expect to win baseball games. Love Bard's stuff....what to see him make it. But I don't think he will if he expects V to accept so many first batter walks in innings. Hell send him down the clubhouse steps between innings and let him visualize his motion....something....somebody on that damn team help this kid solve the exact same problem he had last year so he can start games or we will see a procession of walks like the ones we have seen in his last two stints.

I want Bard to make it cause while Aceves has had very good movement and location, Bard has better stuff. In reality Bard's problem is the same problem he had last year only exacerbated by numbers of innings. His mechanics early in innings and now early in games can be abominable. I called his motion hurky-jerky earlier tonight because that is what it was at times. His body is flailing all over the place. His front leg gets way out ahead and he cannot catch up to it. God only knows what the hell it would look like if he was not pitching from the stretch all the time. To hie credit he knows that is the genesis of his control problems. He simply cannot seem to get his mechanics straight early and the ball ends up going all over the place. Tonight Bard said that he was encouraged by the fact the he felt good late in the stint (no fatigue) and he felt like if he could just get his mechanics smoothed out early in games he could carry it through to later innings. I would love to see that happen. But he has to make it happen. I don't understand why they have not been able to help this kid although I am sure that is why he always pitches from the stretch. It is a much more compact motion with fewer moving parts. I am beginning to wonder if pitching with a full wind up would give him sort of a kick start into the motion. However it must be worse for him or he would already be doing that.

Should read V's comments after tonight's Bard outing. "I cannot take his walks". That is the issue. V goes on to say that he would like to blame it on trying out the "third pitch", the change up but he "can't". "Bard only threw one of them tonight and he threw it for a strike." V appears willing to let Bard off on the notion that it is just early but he needs Bard to give him an outing here that allows V to identify a progression toward a more attractive ball:strike ratio and a walks profile that is not a tried and true loser! V is actually begging Bard to bail him out of this situation and just have an outing where he is not giving up walks to the first batter in innings. To ask V to just accept this would be like asking our esteemed Patriot's coach to accept a negative turnover ratio every game, to ask a golfer to win when he can't find the fairway with drives....to ask a tennis player to win without being able to get any first serves to fall in. You just cannot win giving up walks to the first batters in innings, especially consecutive innings and V is not interested in being made to look like an idiot when Aceves is out-pitching Bard to such a degree. However I am convinced that V wants Bard to get the job and wants Aceves in the pen. So if Bard can lift his ball:strike ratio which is miserable right now and get through innings without giving up so many walks, I believe the job is his. However if he does not do that, this next outing, I just don't think V will give him the job because he does have an alternative. Just because we think Bard to the rotation is the best thing for the Sox and for Bard don't think we should expect V to just break the most basic principle in baseball just to satisfy us. Bard has got to earn this job cause there is simply no rational to giving a rotation job to a guy that has never started anywhere when he is being out-pitched by somebody else. That is a dilemma that Bard has got to resolve for V and if he does not, I don't expect V to reward him with a starting role.

Maybe so but it still says the same thing to me. There is something there that V is not liking. In addition when I see Bard in interviews he does not seem like the kind of kid that just thrives on that sort of thing. Looks more like the "takes it to heart" type and the internalizes it type.

How I wish Doubront, Bowden and Albers were our only problems. In some cases I think we are stuck with some of these guys because we don't have the trade horsepower to get anybody worth a darn at this stage of the game. I do think Doubront would be claimed off waivers and unfortunately I have not seen enough good around him to say that we would not miss his arm at least on the 2012 Sox. I hope Miller's injury from tonight is not serious as he has not be terrible "YET"! Anyway, we might actually get something out of Miller this year. I have to admit that I am living on hope more than optimism at least beyond 1,2 and 3 in the rotation who seem pretty solid so far if they can stay healthy. By the way....I am going to say that these guys know they have one stint left each to impress. Bard clearly left me with that impression in his post-stint presser tonight. I am going to say that both Bard and Doubront are going to have good enough outings in their next stints for Bard to claim the 4 and for Doubront to claim the 5, putting Aceves in the pen where he is needed the most I think. Hope the hell I am right.

Not sure if this belongs in the "Valentine's big mouth" thread but I was surprised by this and would not have done it. During Bard's post stint presser tonight, Bard revealed that before his stint, V asked Bard if "he was still up for this" meaning starting. Bard offered words to the effect that he was. However if I were V, I would not have asked the question. It cannot do anything for the young man's confidence to have his Manager ask a question like that. Questions like that do not come from outer space. If V is asking a question like that it is because he is seeing something that prompts some concern on his part. However, it does not matter whether Bard is up for it or not. What would you expect the young man to say? V still has to decide based on performance whether Bard should start or not. If I were Bard, my immediate thought would be, "What is he seeing that prompted that question?" Bard has not exactly covered himself in glory in this role as yet. However he has not tanked it either. I would hate to see the seed of doubt creep into his thinking because his Manager put it there.

Looking at the guys that I have seen pitch that are intended for or vying for the 3 through the 5 in the rotation: Buch has shown good location and movement and is throwing strikes...solidly the 3 as expected. Bard has shown good location and movement but is missing the plate to much so far to have established himself as my 4. However he is one steady outing (no early walks in innings) from being the 4 at least for this team. If not I would send him to the 8th inning killing two birds with one stone as Melancon has not quite gotten it done so far. That would send Melancon to some sort of middle relief role. Aceves has shown good location and movement and enough control to earn the 4 if I had to make a decision today. However I still prefer Aceves for the pen unless Bard cannot find the plate more than he has so far. In his interview, Bard said it is his mechanics early in games and he realizes he has to improve. He is right! Doubront has shown good location and movement but has been to inconsistent to be a 4 but could be a 5 especially since the Sox have no options left on him and it does not appear that he would be effective from the pen. Padilla has not had good location and has not had good movement. He has thrown strikes but is catching to much of the meat of the plate and I think will have difficulty with a real ML lineup if he ever sees one. My expectations for him are middle/long relief after somebody else gets the starter out of a jam and possible emergency starter. The most revealing part of Bard's post-pitching interview tonight was that apparently "according to Bard" V came up to him before tonight's outing and asked him if he was "still up for this" meaning starting. That is telling as hell. I did not think Bard had done anything untoward enough to deserve that question from V but it is hard to ignore. V is clearly seeing something that is on his mind.

The only problem with just giving it to Bard is that Aceves is outpitching him to this point. However even if Aceves has another good outing as long as Bard does in fact come out and settle earlier in his next stint than he did tonight I think he will get it. It is the inability to hit the plate that might be his undoing. Now he has given up walks in the relief stint (four) and in the starting stint (three in three innings, two to first batters in innings) and a Manager will not likely tolerate that if he has an alternative. Nobody is talking about results. I don't give a darn about the runs scored at this point. I care about whether he can hit the plate with enough regularity as a starter.

That said it is getting late for V not to have named Bard to the spot by now. I don't think he will get the 4 if he does not have a better outing next time out. V will have to settle on who is going to pitch where by the latest one week from today and it sounds like he will not make announcements until then. that hurky-jerky motion early in innings is not working on other pitches. He is simply not settling in especially after a relatively normal bench sit between innings. However even though V has not been willing to name him to the 4 yet, he has got to give him one more outing to prove himself. As I said earlier he may just be nervous as heck. In my view all it will take is settling a little earlier in the next stint than he did tonight and he will get the spot I think. He can come out and have a weak 1st inning. He had a good 1st inning tonight but weak 1st innings don't bother me. That is not unexpected. But if he comes out and again starts early innings with walks, I just don't think he will get the spot and frankly I don't think he will deserve the spot. You just cannot walk the first batter in consecutive early innings and if Bard does that again in the next outing, I simply don't think V will give him the 4.

Looks to me like it will take another start for Bard to prove he can be the 4. I can see why V has not been willing to name him to the 4 spot. In two innings and a batter he already has three walks tonight. He gave up two in the second and one already in the third. Gave up 3 runs in the second. A little unlucky in that Sweeney took a roundabout route to a pop fly down the line. However Bard had already walked the first batter before that happened....an absolute no-no. He went on to walk the first batter in the third. He looks completely disjointed when he comes out for the next inning. Finally settled in by the 4th inning and he might just be a nervous wreck at this point early in games. Looked very solid in the fourth and fifth. Can't be walkin' guys all over creation. I like his stuff. But Geez he is walkin' guys all over the place. I think the reason that there is no indication from V on either Bard or anything else at this point is because the 4 spot is so up in the air. The Sox look like they have a bunch of guys that could be a 5 but Aceves might be the only guy that has looked anything like a 4 so far. I can see Aceves as the 4, Doubront as the 5 with Bard back to the pen as the 8th inning set up man unless Bard can come into his next start and settle down earlier in the game. Bard has gone deep into this game so he will not be back out there for the next few days. I think that gives Bard one more start to show V enough or it will likely be off to the pen for him.

And no I don't find Oswalt a comforting option either. In the first place the 4 seems up in the air at the moment and Oswalt is no 4 at this stage of his career. As this offseason and ST has moved apace, the lack of interest in Oswalt gets me closer and closer to a forced retirement in his case unless somebody brings him in out of what we are going to be calling "desperation". Nothing comforting about the word desperation.

Another point I should make that might sound harsh is that I don't think I have seen the 4 in this rotation yet. We have sort of bequeathed the 4 to Bard but he has not as yet earned it based on performance at least from what I have seen. Remember we are going to hand this guy the ball every fourth start. Please do not give me the argument that we handed Lackey the ball every fourth start last year. I am not looking for a minor upgrade to that experience....a guy that as it turned out had a slinky for an arm as he was setting up for TJ. In my view at least to date, we have given Bard the spot because we have no alternative but to give him the spot. That is not as yet particularly comforting. I also agree that expecting dice back in June is wayyyyyy optimistic. Once he actually rehabs the first thing dice will have to do is figure out what he has for an arm post TJ. It is not like the arm goes back to what it was before TJ. That is actually pretty rare I think. It will be a situation where he applies what he knows to his new arm and figures out what he has. August sounds more plausible to me than June.

Based on what you have seen 700 do you think there is a chance that the Sox are going to be left having to give serious consideration to Aceves in the rotation and Bard back to the pen based on the premise that the role Bard has already filled, 8th inning set up is both critical and one where the Sox really do not have a current answer? Once again I suspect that if this becomes a consideration Doubront's status plays a role as I think if he can really nail down a spot in the rotation, then maybe the Sox would feel more comfortable moving Bard back to the pen. To me 1,2 3 in the rotation is obvious as it is I am sure to everybody else. Then I keep thinking that everything else tends to work off of Doubront. Does he barely make it into the rotation as the lesser of several evils or does he make it in solidly even given consideration as the 4.....just as an example. I should add that my expectations for a 5 are not very high as starters go. My expectations for a 4 are much higher.

Sox have no options left on Doubront right? Not sure what V is talking about.

How long have you been a fan? Since 1967. How did you become a Red Sox fan? Fell in love with the grit of the 67' team. Impressed with the play of Yaz and the way the rest of the team elevated its play around him. Who is your favorite current Red Sox player? Would have to be Pedroia Who is your favorite all-time Red Sox player? Really tough....Dewey Evans, maybe....Jim Lonborg maybe...tremendous heart and courage in 67', left it all and then some out on the field Who is your least favorite Red Sox player ever? Another tough one....Carl Everett I guess What state/country do you live in (to see how spread out the fan base is here)? New Hampshire now What is your favorite memory being a Red Sox fan? 5th game, 2004, ALCS When was the first time you ever went to Fenway Park? I just can't remember.... 1971 I think Who is your least favorite Yankee player of all-time? So many choices... maybe Munson...great player....Red Sox killer, would rip your heart out, could actually see him chewing on it through his mask....hated him Any other comments that you would like to add?

I hate the automatic "pull the pitcher" approach to handling staffs. I would just be happy to see V not adopt that approach which seemed so much a part of Tito's handling of the staff. Presuming V does not adopt the "auto-pull" it will be interesting to see what V does with pitchers that he has stretched past there tough spots. You have to presume that if he does that he will be confronted with pitchers coming into late innings having already worked through a couple of rough innings and then allowing a base runner right off the bat in that "stretch" inning. We have not had the chance to see much of how the Sox pitchers respond to that in recent years.

Well we have the remainder of ST to work it out. But we have gone from ST has not even started yet. they have time.....to....it is early in ST, "they still have time" while things have not looked much better. I can see it possibly getting better by the end of ST but a whole lot better????????? Pitching looks pretty ragged. Doubront has impressed me but if i am not mistaken he has not put two consistent outings in a row together yet. Aceves has looked very good. So much so, that even I am beginning to wonder if the Sox are going to be forced to toss him in the rotation and push Bard back into the pen or put Bard and Aceves in the rotation together??????? I have no idea what people are seeing in Padilla unless it is relief that the guy has not thrown a fit yet. You simply cannot get that junk past major league hitters and unless he gets back the movement he used to have on his fastball he is going to be meat. I suspect that the lack of movement combined with getting to much plate with his pitches is going to kill him if and when he runs into an actual ML lineup. I still think Doubront is the key. If he can legitimately make his way to the rotation then that gives the Sox the freedom to do some things. In fact Doubront has to make it as they have no options left on him. Which brings us back to exactly where we were last year with maybe some improvement down at the bottom of the rotation but at the expense of the pen. It still boils down to having 1,2 and 3 in the rotation go the entire season without injury. Place your bets sports fans. I am beginning to think that either Bard or Aceves are going to have to stay in the pen else we end up with the kind of pitching staff where in to many instances the starters take the Sox to the middle of the game or later only to have the pen come in and open the flood gates. My upper expectations for Padilla are that he ends up with a role to play there.