jung

I was way late to the party on the Beckett needs to be outta here deal mainly because I did not see how at the time in question we could have gotten enough back out of him to have avoided paying his salary and would have gotten very little in return for him. I actually think that there is a silver lining relative to Beckett in having kept him this year. I do think the change of scenery argument will be accepted as legitimate in his case. He can veto a trade so that actually works for us I think because the receiving team will know that Beckett has approved the move. Frankly I gave up on us getting a legitimate 1 for this rotation before this season started. Without that, I don't really see that much else was going to produce much of an improvement in our starting pitching....so trying to be optimistic about something....this may actually work out. However if we still try to retain Beckett past the end of this season, I am likely to go right off the deep end. He has to be gone.

You are right SoxSport...we had this discussion in a different thread where I was chiding V for his comments about trying to figure out why the starters were giving up so many runs early. I do not believe they are prepared either mentally or physically at the start of the game. I think their mental preparation is likely to be sorely lacking. Again I really really think Lester needs a legitimate 1 to follow plus a good pitching coach and I think Beckett needs to be outta' here.

Lester is not what he was....he can be again if the Sox get a legitimate 1 for him to follow and a good pitching coach to help him through the rough spots. Beckett may be good again but not here. Beckett is done here. He does not want to be here and does not care. So for me, Lester can come back and can come back here under he right circumstances. Beckett can come back as well but not here. Why do I think Lester can come back....one big reason is because he still eats innings....in truth he has not been the big stud ace of the Sox staff...he has been the innings eater of the Sox staff. He will likely do decently in innings pitched his year as well but his performances have been in steady decline over those innings. I tend to pay attention to K/9 for a starting pitcher in the AL East because you have to be able to K guys in the AL East. Pitching to contact can be a rough way to go in the AL East and Lester's K/9 has been in steady decline for years now. But...he still eats innings. So I think under the right circumstances, Lester will come back here.

I don't know if he is out of condition or not. He was way open as in not squared up anytime he tried to put the ball on the outside edge to a RH hitter....just could not square up at all. I doubt that was fatigue because it was happening pretty early in the game. Every time Salty called for something on the outer half to a RH hitter, Lester simply could not get the ball there. Worse than that he did the same thing every time...he never squared up and left his shoulders open every time...so much so that it almost looked like he was throwing to 1st base.

Dumping Youk into the AL or nothing in return was a mistake. No reason to beat the issue around....it was a mistake....will it be the critical mistake of the season? I doubt it but it was a mistake. We got nothing for him....this is why so many of us were wavering over this whole damn thing and asking if it really had to be done. I came down on had to be done finally...regrettably but doing it this way was nuts. Look you dump a player for nothing...in such a way that you will face him...even if he wants to go, you are waving a red flag in his face. You are saying to that player....we don't fear you at all....Youk already left with a chip on his shoulder. If you are going to get nothing and lets face it...the Sox got nothing....send the guy far far away. There is no reason to risk anything when you are getting nothing in return.

I think Lester is lost....Youk was unhappy with the way things were going....unhappy that he was here when it was so obvious that the Sox had to move on....Lester is not pulling anything. He is just lost and unless he comes to terms with what and who he is and unless the Sox come to terms with what they really need to do with this rotation, Lester may finally throw in the towel and believe his career is better served elsewhere...but for now he is just lost and desperately needs the leadership of a 1 in the rotation and a good pitching coach.

And just to credit 700......the single most important stat for a starting pitcher is innings pitched. Given the 2011 performances of our 1,2 and 3 I do think the concerns some of us voiced way before the season started were legitimate and legitimized by what we have seen so far this year.

Well I thought even at the start of the season the hole was at the 1. We did not in my view have a legitimate 1. Lester was not going to be a 1, Beckett was not and Buch was not. My God some of us were posting in December that we had two 2's and a 3 at best. This reliance on career numbers simply does not wash. What are you guys going to do when a guy has bad season after bad season, just stubbornly insist that he will eventually come back to his career numbers? Players change over time...especially pitchers. Back to start of the season....I gave up on us getting what we needed because I did not see it happening and began to support bringing in somebody to slot in at about where Buch was....something like a 3. I would have been wrong! I think unfortunately, we were doomed from the start which is something many of us were saying at the time....that a) we did not have a legitimate 1 and without at least resolving that issue in the rotation we were doomed...never mind the hitting...never mind the lineup that lead the division until imploding....we were doomed. Unfortunately when all is said and done, I think that will be the enduring legacy of the 2012 team. Maybe not but that is my gut now, was my gut then and have not seen anything that changes that view YET.

There is little sense in focusing on any one of them...tonight its Lester...tomorrow its Beckett....then its Buch....blah blah blah....they are as inconsistent as a bunch as I have ever seen....EVER.....with the exception now of Lester who is consistently bad every start now. I still predict that Buch will be the best of them out the season as long as he does not have to miss starts. But the rest of them are on a death march from what I can see as you just cannot rely on them at all. In Buch's case you are always waiting for the next illness or ailment unfortunately.

Correctamento 700. We don't get better starting pitching than what we get now there is no amount of nothin' that will make up for it.

NESN says we are non-commital on a starter for the Thursday game. Is this where we are at? Are starting pitching sucks ass and we don't even know who we are going to put out there on Thursday! I am just not even going to say what I am thinkin'. Whats the use.

Hmmm Morales to the pen and Felix is looking gassed lately. Where are they going with this?

I wonder if Ventura would have left Thornton in for that HR in a tighter game. He was dickin' around and dickin' around with not getting pitches over, leaving them in bad spots....really was asking for it.

The Sox could have held on till somebody got really antsy at the deadline. We got nothing.....are paying a chunk of Youks salary and have to see him come back to Fenway. That is a hell of a trifecta just to get a guy off the team. The point is.....we did not have to take it directly in the chops that bad just to get him outta here.

Remember we paid for something like I think 45% of that HR by Youk....or is it the other way....did we just pay for 65% of that HR?

What is galling is that the Sox got totally nothing for Youk and for nothing I would have let him sit on the bench and stew until I could get more than nothing from somebody whether NL or AL but to get nothing from an AL team was pretty dumb I have to admit.

Typical

Salty was calling for that pitch low and outside to Youk. That just tells you how bad Lester missed. Being left handed Lester would have to throw something like a cut FB or maybe even a change to get it down in that spot where Youk has trouble. Given where Salty was trying to get that pitch I assume he had called for the cutter but that thing came in so far off the target and then went out so fast I can't be sure what the hell that pitch was.

While I do think V should have had Lester walk Youk at 3-0, Lester did just tee it up and if you are going to tee it up for Youk like that there is no guarantee that Lester would not have teed it up for Dunn for the salami. Just had no idea where the ball was going tonight and was way wild both in and out of the strike zone.

Red Sox take note......that is called hitting behind the runner

The Red Sox do steal bases. They don't sacrifice and they don't hit behind runners.

Lester certainly does not appear to know where the ball is going. He has watched Youk hit for a career. Youk does not even have to try hard to hit it out if you are going to feed him that pitch. Even two strikes makes no difference if you are going to feed him that.

Our starting pitching is actually IMO going to look worse in the second half on a relative basis (meaning relative to opponents) than it did in the first half that is going to be totally brutal to watch.

The way the pitchers have his number now we could see Salty run into 7-8 K runs in a row.

I suppose I could start up my usual mantra....starting pitching....starting pitching......starting pitching