SoxFanForsyth

So the Sox got rid of Grady Little on 11/3, and Francona was getting his physical on 11/26? There are 23 days between those two. As of today, 49 days have passed since Francona was officially let go. There's quite a difference there. If they stuck to their plan and even had a 30 day process, we would have had a new manager in before Halloween. Now, we're a week from Thanksgiving.

This is a train wreck. I'm getting awfully tired of this ownership group right now. The Cardinals went 12 days without a manager before they found one. Now the Cubs have gone 14 days without a manager before they found one. But the Sox have gone 48 days and still no offers on the table? WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

Wonder what kind of a haul it would take to pull Garza from the Cubbies. There's zero chance that Theo/Hoyer don't covet a lot of the Sox prospects. Maybe throw the Cubs Ranaudo + Kalish/Brentz/Jacobs + Vitek, and then don't ask for anything in return for Theo.

Maybe they don't care who the actual coach is, but I'm sure they would like to go to an organization that actually has one installed rather than one that is up in the air about a lot of things. Regardless, we also don't have a pitching coach, and that is a bit more personal if we are looking into any SP options, even ones on the cheap.

According to Rob Bradford from WEEI (via Twitter), the Sox have made an offer to Ortiz. Not sure any numbers, probably low ball right now.

Bill James predictions are out for 2012. The good news is that Lackey, despite TJ Surgery, is still on track to throw 174 IP to a 4.24 ERA next season.

Dammit you beat me to it!!!!! Ugh. I was ready to pounce. :thumbdown

Don't worry guys. If Lackey can throw to a 4.50 ERA in 2013, that's all we need. It's not hard to dish a 4.50 ERA pitcher for 2 years/16mm, especially coming from the AL East and trading to somewhere in the AL or NL West.

I really like Aviles, but he seems redundant if we still have Lowrie. If we trade Lowrie or Youkilis, then I'd say keep him. Lowrie hits LHP just as well (or better) than Aviles. He's a solid back up player (probably a starter for some clubs), but not for the Sox. We would have to make room for him.

I was being sarcastic. Must have lost my edge in my hiatus. :dunno:

Of course not. If Pap sucks in Philly it's because it's a new environment. He would have been an elite, sub-2.00 ERA closer in Boston. Duh.

This is exactly right. Unfortunately, Middlebrooks isn't quite there yet. He needs a full year of AAA ball before he is ready to be called up. So that means we would have to 1. Sign a guy like Aramis Ramirez to a 1 year, incentive laden deal, 2. Make another trade, or 3. Make the oft-injured Jed Lowrie our everyday 3B. I'm not sure any of those sound appealing enough to justify trading Youk for Santana. If we're going to sell high on someone and try to get back a solid SP in return, we need it do it with a position where we have more depth. We've got a solid OF in Kalish, and the jury is still out (to me, anyway) on Reddick. I think if we traded Ellsbury, we would have the pieces to replace him (especially Kalish). Bill James last year had Kalish as a 20/20 guy. His neck surgery wasn't as invasive as originally thought, if I remember correctly, so I think he could break camp with the big league. Sell high on Ellsbury to a team that needs another OF. Giants would have been a great match but they have Melky. Maybe work out a deal (3 team if need be) that doesn't involve Ellsbury for a guy like Jurrjens. I think there are better options out there.

Can we just rename this thread to "The Red Sox are f***ed"? Holy s*** guys. People thought the game threads were full of negative nancys? This thread is abysmal. Yes. Papelbon left. Yes. That sucks. No, he's not worth $50mm over 4 years. Give Cherington more than 5 weeks before we blast him with hate for letting Papelbon sign a ridiculous contract elsewhere. With the closer market, along with Bard, it would be have been ridiculous for the Sox to have thrown $50mm at Pap. According to Jackso, Beckett, Buchholz, and Lester are all going to have their arms fall off, and Lester is going to relapse. Give me a damn break. Yes, it would be great if we signed Beltran. Sign Beltran, sign Buehrle or trade for Danks, and make Aceves a SP. I don't like the Joe Nathan idea. I do like Heath Bell. The point is, there is a LOT of offseason left. Lets wait until February before we pass judgement. I think a lot of people are overvaluing Papelbon. He's not worth 4/50.

No formal offer. Philly came in quick and Pap didn't even give Cherington a chance to match offer. Just accepted, per reports. Regardless, 4/50 for Pap with an option is too much money. He's not worth that much, and we can find someone who can do the job (Bell) for cheaper (3/24-30mm).

I don't think you would see nearly as much of a drop off as you think if we 1. Let Bard close, or 2. Signed a guy like Heath Bell. Papelbon was elite, and was the best closer that we've had in a long time. No doubt about it. I'm just saying, it's not like we're screwed and going to be a sub -.500 team next year. This sucks, but lets see what we add in lieu of Papelbon (be it an elite SP while making Bard the closer, or Heath Bell) before we throw the baby out with the bath water.

Yes it does. If we signed Pap, we would have about 6mm to play with prior to lux tax. Not to mention implications of DiceK's injury (insurance) and Lackey's injury (option). Not sure if either of those will affect the lux tax, but I don't think that going over the tax by a few million $$$ will keep them from chasing an elite SP.