SoxFanForsyth

Would he have a better range of motion if he re-injured it? I don't see how that could possibly be the case. Or that soreness goes down. If he re-injured his wrist, wouldn't it be more painful and wouldn't he have less ability to move it? As far as I know, he aggravated it via the entire process of swinging (soft toss and off tee) as well as bunting, not just the bunting itself.

Seriously, though. Here are the facts about last year to back what Emmz just said. 1. The RF position last season OPS'd .652. Cody Ross and Ryan Sweeney can hit to the back of their baseball cards and tack on 100 points to that OPS, and I'm a believer that Ross will get the majority of the playing time and that Fenway will suit his swing well. So a .760-.780 OPS from Ross is reasonable IMO. 2. By no means was I for trading Scutaro now that we didn't get Oswalt, but having said that, he only played 113 games last season. Keep in mind - we're comparing apples to apples, so when you say "Aviles isn't as good as Scutaro", he doesn't have to be if we want to replicate 2011 offense. The SS position OPS'd .730 last year. Aviles should match that. 3. Ellsbury and Ortiz will surely regress, but the regression will be supplemented by progression from Crawford and RF. It's not at all unreasonable to expect the offense this year to be a wash with the offense last year, potentially even a little better considering the dropoff in power from Gonzo, the aberration of a year from Crawford, and the horrific RF that we had. 4. Pitching, pitching, pitching. Last year, Weiland, Miller, Wakefield, Lackey, and Bedard combined to start 76 games and threw 415 IP. They also combined for a 5.83 ERA. That's 47% of our starts right there that will be replaced by Buchholz, Bard, and likely Doubront. If they (along with some spot starters) can combine their starts to even a 4.50 ERA, that shaves 1.33 points off of the back end of the rotation. But I truly think they will exceed that number. Regardless, I think this team is in better shape than the team was last season, even the team that went 82-51 through August 31st, and because of that, I think this is a 94-96 win team.

Get out of my head.

Thought his stuff wasn't very crisp as well. I don't think he was pumping max velocity, a lot like Beckett. Just getting some work in. Regardless, I would never say I was impressed with his outing. But I'm still trying to get a feel for him as a pitcher.

It's not just that comment, and in fact, that had little to do with it. It's just been an extremely pessimistic board lately. It seems like anyone that is optimistic about the season is constantly fighting for their opinion.

It's not disagreeing. It's the fact that all I said was "hopefully he does well" and then it's all pessimism about how he's never going to do well and he stinks and he'll never reach his potential. You know what? He probably won't, you're probably right, but wishing the best for the guy does not warrant all of the above conversation by any means. Look - I still stand by my thought that hopefully he can figure it out sometime because if he does, he's got the talent to be an elite pitcher. Having said that, I probably jumped on you too much and it was just because it was the straw the broke the camels back. I even tried to say that it's not just you, but it's numerous people on this board, so I apologize for getting into it with you. It's just annoying as hell when everything anyone says about this team being good this year is shot down with pessimism, and that's been happening so much ever since last September. Sorry you had to take the blunt of my blow up. It's not even enjoyable to talk about the team on here when anything anyone says about them is shot down with s***-on-the-Sox posts by Pumpsie and Jackso. Side note, here's a quote from McClure today that's relevant to our conversation.

Apparently paying attention is not your strong suit. Again. Nobody is expecting him to contribute. I said "Who knows if he'll ever reach his potential". You're just trying your damndest to make it look like I said something that I didn't. I would challenge you to find one quote from me where I said I am expecting him contribute this year, but I already know you can't because I've never made that comment. All I said was .... I guess jumping all over someone for that comment ^^^^^ isn't being a pessimist. Oh wait..... Take a look in the mirror one day. You would be shocked at what you see. You've been extremely pessimistic about it the whole time. I mean seriously. Getting all over someone for saying "Hopefully he can figure it out someday"?? Are you kidding me?? You're a joke, Emmz. You really are. If I get banned for this little argument, that's fine. It's hardly enjoyable to even post on a thread where members jump all over you when you're just hoping for the best for one of the players.

And lets not forget, the thing that is the absolute most hilarious part of this... All I said is "Who knows if he'll ever reach his potential" Hahahahaha. Somehow that translates to "He's definitely going to be a stud with a little more work"

It is exactly what I said it was. You tried (unsuccessfully, I might add) to say that players who hop from team to team proves that they have no value and are hopeless. Except, oops. Josh Hamilton did the same thing and then won some award in 2010, can't remember what it was though.

Ha. That's funny you should say that. McDonald OPS'd .804 vs RHP last season, and .821 vs RHP in 2010. That's a valuable player off the bench. Point is, if he is just a completely lost cause with zero hope for any future contributions, then they wouldn't have resigned him. And they also wouldn't be worried about someone claiming him off waivers if he was sent to AAA. And they also wouldn't have put a stipulation in his contract last year where the claiming team would have to pay $3mm to him in 2012. But nah, none of those are relevant.

Oops. That must be overly optimistic and unrealistic. The fact that you based your argument on teams giving up on players draws a perfect parallel to Hamilton. That's where the situations are extremely similar, and that was the basis of your argument.

I guess that's why the Red Sox kept him on board. Edit: Oops. almost forgot. LoL.

Expecting and hoping are two different things. I guess you can't get that through your head because that's all you keep banging on. Relying on him to make a contribution is not realistic. Saying "Who knows if he'll ever reach his potential" and "Too bad he is so erratic"?? Ha. Saying that's "unrealistic" is laughable.

And excuse me if I trust the Red Sox talent evaluators and coaching staff in the evaluation of a players talent and likelihood of reaching his potential just slightly more than I trust Emmz from talksox.....

Kind of like Josh Hamilton I guess.

Please explain to me how this is overly optimistic and unrealistic?? Every single thing that I said about him had a qualifier associated with it.

NOBODY IS PROJECTING HIM TO BE GOOD!! All I said was that it would be nice if he could harness his potential, that's it! I don't see why that somehow translates to me saying "He's likely going to be good" and somehow I'm not realistic about it. According to this board, Buchholz is no better than a 4.20 FIP pitcher, Bard is going to have an ERA north of 4, Carl Crawford is doomed and he's going to have to learn to play Jim Abbott style because he has no wrist, and anyone who hopes for the best is unrealistic. It's not just you, Emmz. It's a lot of people, and it's annoying as hell. I don't think I've seen 1 positive post about this team. This is the exact same team minus Scutaro (113 games played) and Papelbon (whose replacement in Bailey will see minimal dropoff). And without Lackey or Wakefield, who combined for 51 starts at an ERA of 6. But if you go by these posts, it's like this is the Pittsburgh Pirates from 2005. I just don't understand it. It makes zero sense. This is a 93-96 win team right now. They were 31 games over .500 on August 31st last year. That's unbelievable. From April 16th to August 31st, they were 81-42. That's .659 baseball, which is a 107 win pace. And that was for 123 games of the season. People are putting entirely, entirely too much weight on the first 12 and the final 27 games of the season and completely disregarding the 123 games before that.

I swear, half the people on this board would be thrilled if this team won 81 games this year.

Good Lord. I swear, this may be the most pessimistic this board has been since I've been here, which has only been a year and a half, but it's pretty ridiculous. All we're doing is discussing Andrew Miller and how he was throwing hard and had a good outing, and how nice it would be if he ever harnessed his talent, and even that gets jumped on as if we're saying "he's going to be a #1 stud this year, no doubt about it".

He looked excellent last year at one point when he had back to back games against KC and Tex. If he can harness that, he could be a top of the rotation guy. Who knows if he'll ever reach that potential though.