Dojji

I think we all knew the FO wasn't going into this season with making the playoffs being its usual high priority. We've been talking about a step back since April after all, and that was before the injuries hit. It's a calculated risk. Sometimes you have to take a step back to be in position to make a big jump forward.

The problem with Oki is that he's had rough patches before, even monthlong ones. Remember August of '07? I do, no matter how hard I try. It can take a long time to tell the difference between a slump and a guy who's lost his skill altogether. 88 pitchers with a sub-4 ERA is less than about 3 per team. That means most of those guys were already the closers and setup men of their teams. I actually find it fairly easy to believe they couldn't get one for a fair price. Or at least, one that they thought would succeed in Boston, which is a discrete subset of that 88 and a relatively small one. Knowing we were looking specifically for an LHRP makes it even harder, and I wouldn't be surprised if we were down to single digits, and if you have to look for non-contenders who might trade a closer or setup man, you're narrowing the focus still further.

Right with you on Bogar and the bullpen, but not the FO. One of the maddening things about trying to be a perennial contender is that you only mortgage the future to win now to a certain point and not further. If other teams weren't asking for reasonable prices for their talent, the FO is off the hook for failing to acquire it. I can't think of a LHRP that changed hands this year that Boston should have obtained -- I don't think Jeremy Affeldt would have held up in the AL East do you? After the flurry of closer signings last year, the relief market was amazingly quiet this year. Basically, any upgrades to the bullpen this year almost had to be homegrown, and while the bullpen WAS mediocre this year, it wasn't because Theo didn't try a lot of different stuff to make it work. We must have had 12-15 different RP's pitch innings for us this year, even if you don't count Hall.

Yeah, we did win the war. Saddam Hussein's regime is no longer in power in Iraq. The aftermath of the war is much more murky, and we may have lost significant ground there, you can debate that until you're blue in the face, but at least Saddam isn't around to make his argument. Now, my personal opinion is that even with all that went wrong in Iraq, it's a better situation there for now than it ever was before we went in there. I mean, they had something that superficially resembles free elections, and the various tribes and factions that make up Iraq actually have been forced to talk to each other instead of going right to the shooting-people part! Little things like that that we take for granted in civilized countries and the Iraqis have to be taught how to do because they've never had that experience. In the end, even without that, Saddam killed more Iraqis than the internecine violence in the country is ever likely to. But ultimately? That's just MHO. Others will probably disagree, and that's their right. Oh, and for the record? While they didn't find them in the quantity and readiness that they expected before the war, the coalition troops did unearth a number of Saddam's WMD's, both in Iraq and a few in the neighboring countries he shipped them to in the days leading up to the war (mostly Syria). The media likes to ignore this fact or downplay it -- but the fact that there were even a few WMD's -- heck, the fact that they ejected the inspectors whether there were WMD's or not -- would have been grounds for invasion under the terms of the treaty. You can not like war, heck, I don't like war, probably only a handful of people who don't really know what war is actually like it, but this particuar war was no more unjust than all war is unjust by nature.

Sorry, I think you're confused. We were talking about Daniel Nava, not Jerry Hermida.

He's a quality young pitcher but I honestly think he's wasted in the pen, I see him traded to a team that needs a lefty SP -- that's no small number of teams after all -- as part of a package for a big bat.

http://mcgonnigle.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/dewey_defeats_truman1.jpg

Being taken deep by the league's HR leader? I like Felix, and I think he could start or set up, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Nava isn't as short as, say, Dustin Pedroia, who hits for fair power. There have been diminutive power hitters before, certainly there have been guys less than 6' tall who can hit ropes, plug the gap, and hit 15 out. That's all Nava has to do. Come to that Youk is only about 3" taller than Nava. And if you mean bulk, nothing Youks has done there that Nava couldn't do. He's got plenty of room to bulk up.

Lefty setup man are hard enough to find, not to mention lefties of Downs' quality, that I'd pay that price in this situation. We'll be getting a pick back for Beltre anyway, likely a first and a #1s.

Nope. Some things are worth paying for. My only concern is that someone might beat out our best offer and sign him as a closer.

I like the following bullpen next year Paps Bard Downs (FA) Doubront/Richardson Delcarmen Bowden/Doubront

Papelbon and Bard aren't competing for limited roster space. You need more than a closer to make a bullpen, having a top class setup man is critical. We need them both -- desperately. As it is, we'll probably be spending money to improve that bullpen. Trading from an area of weakness is a bad idea. Paps is having a tough year. Guess what? Bard will have them too. Bard will be where Paps is now -- if he's lucky and talented enough. It's a fact. And as "terrible years" go, if this is the worst we ever see out of Papelbon, he's worth holding onto at all costs. I would be delighted if say Delcarmen was that good on a consistent basis. So you can show a bit of balls and put up with the worst days and keep an overall talented player, or you can be a whiny little coward who can't see the forest for the trees and makes knee-jerk response posts based on every little thing that goes wrong over a full 162 and just wind up annoying everyone. Your call.

Don't count Nava out as a starting COF. Power isn't there now, but if Kevin Youkilis proves one thing, it's that a strong approach and doubles power can net you surprising results, even if you get your first chance to start in your late 20's. With Nava's swing, if he develops, he could become a hard man to get out and a guy who can take advantage of the wall no matter which side of the plate he hits from -- if he can maintain a .300+ batting average at the big league level and hit 15 HR's a year or so, he could start even for Boston. Until we find a big bat to fall in love with anyway. I''d more than take .300/.380/.450 inand 15 HR's right field and Nava's capable of that. He could be capable of more, it depends on whether he can add a bit of loft to the line drives he's always hitting.

If I'd said he blasted 2 doubles, you'd have an argument, now you're just debating useless semantics.

Another solid game for Jed. Man, this has been a decent year for "my" guys. Lowrie on the bounceback, Nava's solid Red Sox debut, Dusty Brown getting a look, Yamacio Navarro getting to AAA -- what next,an Aaron Bates callup? Bubba Bell perhaps? Khoury on a September callup/

PineRider, my post wasn't directed specifically at you. In fact I wasn't even aware of your post, I was responding more to a general sentiment that overtakes places like this forum whenever a closer blows a save, and I wouldn't have said it that way if it wasn't a near-universal constant. Heck, I'm frustrated too, but what good has blame-throwing ever done the world? He blew it, it happens, he's still a solid pitcher and the team's still a solid team. Overreacting based on one game isn't good for my heart health, and I can't recommend it for anyone else either. Since emotions are likely to run high after something like this, we're all going to be a bit extra sensitive. I recommend we all try a little harder to be mindful of each other. Myself, obviously, included.

Ptching to contact has its limitations though. Every now and again someone's going to be able to line you up and take you deep. You need to be able to get it by a hitter at will when required. The best is a combo of the two and that's more or less what Buchholz offers. if nothing else you need to be able to deal with a patient team that won't swing unless it's meat.

Despite the outcome tonight, Salty had a solid game. Threw out a baserunner and rapped 2 doubles.

A 6-7 K/9 is all you need to be effective. You'd like more, of course, but if you're between 6 and 7 and are a capable pitcher to contact you can even excel. I don't think Buchholz stops there though. There's plenty of precedent to suggest that his k/9 should improve.

One day in the distant future, when war is obsolete, hunger is conquered, etc. etc. sports fans will learn the difference between "making a bonehead move" and "making a correct move that did not produce the desired result."

This season can't end soon enough.

Yeah this one's on Pap, no question

Tell ya what, I'm going to take me and my late-innings curse elsewhere for now.