Dojji

I refuse to believe the Sox brass are still on the Buchholz bandwagon, but it looks like they're going to need to smile and pretend that they are.

Nonetheless, they're not dissimilar. if anything, Craig is a better offensive player than Lowell was. I think Fenway's going to be good to him anyway. We'll see what actually happens.

That's what Lowell started as, but it's sure as HELL not what he finished as. He wound up as a world series MVP in his own right. They resigned him past his useful life, which didn't serve his memory well, but Mike Lowell was one heck of a third baseman in 06 and 07 when we needed him the mpst.

I didn't say I liked the trade. I said I can see what Cherington is thinking. Joe Kelly has the potential to be useful, and Craig could turn into the next Mike Lowell and could be used in any if 1b, 3B, LF, RF depending on what we need, so there is a point to him being here. He's a much better Fenway type hitter than Cespedes since he's a righthanded contact hitter -- a good candidate to perform at level or above in this park If I recall correctly I heard rumors that Lackey might retire rather than play next year for league minimum, and that he wants a new contract. So don't just look at the contract and assume that Lackyt ever intended to honor that final year. All told, I don't love this trade, but if you start with the assumption that Lackey had no intention to honor the last year of his conract without renegotiating it, everything else makes some sense, and we retain control of both the assets coming back longish-term (2-3 years) which is nice.

Ironically, I actually see what Cherington is thinking here. I didn't want Craig for Lester, but Lackey is less valuable than Lester, and I see the point in going for a guy with utility on all 4 corners. And don't overlook Joe Kelly, he's looking like he might be a serviceable bottom of the rotation guy. With Lester the argument always was that if the deal wasn't good enough you could pay him what he wanted and keep him for at least another 3-4 years. Lackey was never a guy with that kind of option, so trading him for a younger veteran and a half decent young pitcing prospect to flesh out the rotation actually works for me. I mean this does mean Cespedes makes even less sense -- but don't be too surprised if the Red Sox turn Cespedes around before the deadline is over.

I actually agree with you, that could be a part of their motivation, but me, I think that's even dumber. Red Sox fans are not idiots. They're too used to winners for a little bit of star power to sway them into watching a horrible team. At best it's damage control, and I resent having a guy like Lester traded away on that basis.

Keep trying Palodios, we do need some optimism around here.

Exactly. Fenway is for hitters-for-average. guys with good plate approaches who can hit the ball on a line to all fields. Power hitters, especially righthanded ones, tend to have home runs turned into doubles against that wall. Ortiz thrives here because he knows how to make high quality contact, if you're hoping to just run into one occasionally, Fenway isn't for you.

This is exatly the kind of trade you don't make when you're a losing team, I'm sorry. Cherington must be convinced that we've gotten very unlucky and are by rights a 90 win team next year if everything worked out normally (not even particualrly well, just normal luck). He's trying not just to win, but win the World Series, next year. he's literally trying to set up a World Series winner from this pool of players and whatever he thinks he can sign in the offseason. I'd be laughing if I didn't feel quite so much like crying. It's one thing to put up a good front for the fans but the GM needs to not be drinking the koolaid along with everyone else. He needed to stockpile prospects, not pick up one guy who's gone after next year. You're gambling that Cespedes dominates this year and next and you can trade him at a profit, but what you traded for him is not going to resemble what you get back for less than half a year of him next season. You're certainly not going to get a 31 year old ace for him. And if you're getting that level of production out of Cespedes we're probably in a wild card slot and do you sell him at all at this point. I just don't see any situation in which someone would take a Cespedes for their version of Jon Lester. That's what tells me that this trade is beyond bad.

Not quite. Don't forget that there's two variables here -- the hitters a pitcher faces, and his own prowess and confidence. Maybe it really is that he's more effective in a certain environment, or feels more confident facing teams he's had success against, regardless of roster turnover. Not to mention that certain teams historically favor certain hitting styles, especially those with long term managers and/or ownership groups. Those teams can get into a rut of thinking in terms of the best way to hit, then they draft, develop, sign and coach accordingly, and then a pitcher's individual style can indeed play well against their habitual weaknesses.

And at least one fan. The Lester trade wasn't just horrible because it was horrible, it's horrible because it says that the Sox brass are still dumb enough to think that next year can be salvaged, even without Lester. It's not going to happen. They need to reposition the team for 3 years from now. Focusing a lot of effort on trying to win the World Series next year is going to kill us in the long run. We don't have the star power on either side of the baseball to make a convincing run anytime in the near future and Cespedes is not going to change that, certainly not more than Lester did. We need to stabilize the roster and wait for the kids to be ready. Cespedes doesn't help us do that, not unless he can play first base or right field, neither of which he has any experience in. How many kids are we going to throw into the fire because this team doesn't know how to make a 5 year plan and stick with it? This is a disaster, not because of who was traded for whom, but because of why the trade was done at all.

The Sox brass better be seeing something I for one don't. if Cespedes does in Boston what he did in Oakland, Sox fans are too knowledgeable to be fooled for long, and flubbing the trade of a legit homegrown Boston ace is a death sentence in this region.

We missed Carl Crawford so much we went and got a younger version. DO NOT LIKE. This man is too old and too unelite for my likings. The tools are there, Cespedes is a good talent, which would be fantastic if he were about 6 years younger, but he does not have the consistency you look for when trading an elite asset. All I can think of right now is "we traded our ace for a #6-8 hitter in a proper lineup." I am VERY disappointed. The Sox are still too focused on the now, and tried to get an asset first and foremost to help us this year and next. THAT IS NOT WHAT WE NEED, ESPECIALLY IN THE TRADING POSITION WE WERE IN. You're trading a unique asset no one else has, that can absolutely put a team over the top and that's what you get? A very good roleplayer that's not going to help us enough now to put us into the playoffs in the next 2 years and then is gone or will have to be re-signed? Seriously, that's your best deal Cherington? Take the picks. They're worth more.

And then we trade for him and he turns into nothing.

No reason to think the Mariners would be in play for Lester at the deadline as they're 11 games out. The offsseason may be another story but that has little to do with us at the moment.

I think we can operate under the assumption that lester is gone.

Yes he is, if he's smart. If you don't at least pick up a half decent pitching prospect for Lester along with whatever else you get, you're going to regret it in 3-4 years. We really don't have that much pitching in the pipe, we can't get rid of Lester without setting up the future of the pitching rotation, unless you want that future to be De la Rosa 1, Doubront 2, Junk, Crap and Trash filling out the lower 3 slots.

I can think of some good ones. The team is old, the core is the oldest part of the team, the only relatively young core player is injury prone due to his lack of size, their holes tend to be in areas that are tough to replace, there are very few players on this roster ou can count on to produce from year to year even leaving age completely out of the discussion, the youngsters have regressed en masse, and most teams have enough money to re-sign anyone they want to keep so the pickings in the free agent market are slim and getting slimmer. Money just isn't enough anymore.

That is horrible. Have you seen Craig this year? He's 30 years old next year and just fell off the face of the earth. That's a reclamation prospect you would pick up off the waiver wire, not something you trade your ace for. Even assuming he bounced back, he's not going to put the team on his back in the next 2 years, and I don't see the team coming together around him in that time, especially the starting staff. That and he plays a position we're already massively redundant in young players that we need to give playing time to. Or you could put him in the outfield where even if his bat does come back, he's nothing special. Allan Craig is exactly -- EXACTLY -- the kind of player we don't need. I'd take a lesser deal in talent that was a better fit, over Craig, anytime considering where this team is right now. What have you guys got in the wings behind Matt Adams? Start talking about addressing areas where we can't replace our staff with high-potential young replacements and we can start to have a conversation. As for the tagalongs, Miller is not a blue chip prospect, and Oscar Tavares is interesting but not enough to turn this trade into a good idea. Stay away Ben, you'd get more real value from the picks you'd get if he doesn't sign.

I think we'll all aware of this but let's lay it out there. The run is over, our last hurrah was 2013, and I'm glad we won it all then. We got a little lucky in 13, we're getting unlucky at the same rate this year, but "normal" for this team doesn't look like a playoff berth to me. Looking at the talent on the roster, even with everyone healthy, the team composition averages out to something in the 81-85 win region and it's not going to get better as players age. IMHO there is nothing we can do to salvage 2015, if by that you mean the team needs to expect to win the World Series. Same in 2016. Those years will be spent mixing and matching and hoping the kids grow into good enough players in their roles that we can build a winner around them. The big moves happen again in the 2016-2017 offseason. That being the case, everyone that you can get a deal for has to be on the block, including all the sacred cows. Yes that means Pedroia. Everything you can do to set the team up for 2017, you have to do. We no longer have the dynamic hitting and thanks to the complete collapse of Buchholz, the failure of Doubront to make a meaningful step forward, and the youngsters being too inexperienced to count on, the pitching continues to be not quite good enough as well. I don't think we need to go full bore Houston tank mode. We can field a team that wins a game or two as we watch for the prospects to come into their own. But if they do choose to do that I'm going to understand exactly why. Sometimes even for the big markets, enough things go wrong (or simply don't go right) at the same time and you spend some time in the cellar before things get better. My opinion is the next couple years will look like that. But god almighty, could we please have ONE SINGLE PROSPECT not turn into a complete dog turd at the slightest excuse? Just one? Maybe? We really, really need to turn over our minor league development team and get some better ideas down there.

Since for some unknown reason the edit post option seems to be screwed up on me, I'll also mention that I think Alex Hassan could be a potential solution. He's not a great offensive player, but he's not a bad one either, tends to be a good OBP hitter in the minors, with a little power. it may happen, it may not. He's got the talent if he can put it all together.

keep an eye on Mookie Betts down in Portland. He's off to a very nice start, and he could earn himself a callup if the team gets desperate.

I'd honestly like to know what else you expect these rookies to be doing. you can't learn to be a big league player in AAA. When you commit to playing a rookie at a position you commit to all the foibles and mistakes that rookie will fall victim to.

He said it in this thread too.

Drew is not a fantastic player in any one area. Drew is a player who can do OK at every single thing you want of a SS. That package is interesting despite the fact that nothing wows you -- IF you know what you're looking at when you watch a baseball game.