jacksonianmarch

Vazquez will be a Type A FA. He is reasonably priced and will hit the market at 33 yrs old. So, unless he pitches well and we re-sign him, we get a season of him plus a 1st rounder and a supplemental first rounder in 2011. That's the security blanket of this deal. I fully expect Vazquez to be very strong for us, but if he is just okay, we can let him walk and replace the cost of the deal with two high draft picks.

we do laugh, and we should cause that notion is ridiculous

This won't go well for NY? He's thrown 198IP or more for 10 seasons in a row. He is the model of consistency. I did make a mistake though, Vazquez is 33, not 31. Putting him in the yankee rotation means we have 4 starters who averaged 200IP or more over the last 2 seasons. I dont see him having the kind of season he had with Atlanta, but I dont think a 200+IP low 4's ERA season is out of the question. And from the 4 hole, that's nasty.

So the overall deal is... Atlanta receives: Melky Cabrera, Michael Dunn, Arodys Vizcaino and $500K NY receives: Javier Vazquez Atlanta's perspective: They had a logjam at pitcher and didnt have the cash to make a run at an elite hitter. By dealing Vazquez, they save approximated $9 million. By getting Cabrera, they get a young OFer capable of playing CF to supplant McLouth and move him to LF. They also get a guy with advanced tools who could blossom in the NL into a bona fide leadoff type hitter. They also get a lefty reliever in Mike Dunn who has the stuff to be in the bigs now and potentially close, if he locates better. But the gem of the deal is Arodys Vizcaino. He'll slot into the long season leagues and be a top 10 prospect in the Braves system. He has a long way to go, but if he realizes his potential, the yankees will regret his inclusion in this trade. I like this deal from an Atl POV Yankees perspective: The Yankees were coming up on a 40 man roster crunch after this season and were concerned about giving two spots in the rotation to Chamberlain and Hughes. But they didnt want to be locked into a long term deal. Enter Javier Vazquez. Now, 5 yrs ago, Javy was one of the best pitchers in baseball through the ASB, but he developed some arm fatigue and fell apart. Since he was sent packing to ARI, he's been one of the most durable pitchers in baseball. He is also well within his prime at 31 yrs old. In 2009, he was considered by WAR to be one of if not the most valuable pitcher in the NL. So, he certainly isnt chop liver here. But a lot of Yankee fans will be skeptical of him since the last memory of Vazquez is getting shillacked in the 2004 ALCS. Now older, stronger, and essentially better, he returns to NY, hopefully triumphantly. He also wont be counted on to be the ace of the staff, since CC has that locked up. Regardless, from a need perspective, this was a good move. In the short term, losing Melky is easily replaceable with Gardner. Losing Dunn is replaceable with Logan. Long term, though, this might be less of a win-win. Vizcaino was a gem who needed only seasoning and Dunn has the capability to close eventually. But, you have to give up something to get something. The fact that Javy is on a 1 yr deal and will be a Type A FA makes this a bit better, since we should get 2 picks back if Javy walks. Overall, I like this deal for both sides. Atlanta gets a trio of highly talented players, 2 of which can contribute now and the budget space to fill other needs. And NY gets another durable strikeout pitcher to add to their rotation.

I agree. It is all about how much we give up. He's a horse and he has nice peripherals, but he is definitely a risk. And risks are not worth full price. I'd take a C level prospect and the entire contract or a B level prospect and the Reds eating a bunch of cash

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/yankees-after-starting-pitcher.html Might be Harang. I lobbied for him a few yrs ago since I thought his location of a quality sinker and plus breaking ball added to his K numbers and his endurance was a good idea. But the last 2 yrs, he's been plagued with injuries and ineffectiveness. His injury last yr was appendicitis, so that shouldnt linger. But another thing we have seen is an increase in BAA. And with that, we have seen an increase in BABIP. In 2009, his BABIP was .336. In 2008, his BABIP was .318. The funny thing is, over the last 5 yrs, his peripherals havent moved too much. His K/9IP have all been over 7, with a peak at 8.4 and a 2009 number of 7.8. His K/BB has always been over 3, with a peak of 4.2 in 2007 and 3.3 in 2009. So it is interesting. His W/L numbers have been atrocious. His ERA over the last 2 yrs has been over 4. But the peripherals were similar compared to his 2 16 win seasons. Maybe, just maybe, the yankees think that he is worth the risk since his peripherals havent dropped that much and that his endurance could be useful. Regardless, he's a good trade get for the #4 slot in the rotation, as long as we dont have to give up too much

If others know how to value a player, then why are you the only one touting Molina? Cervelli had better metrics at everything he can potentially control. He's younger, and he's a better hitter and runner. Its not even close

It wasnt the worst trade ever, but it was a terrible trade. He picked up a guy who was useless and gave up a durable pitcher.

Like I said my friend, Viz has a much higher ceiling. But Mitchell has more polish and has been successful at higher levels. A good part of a ranking is proximity. And Viz hasnt played a game in the long season leagues yet. If he dominates Charleston, which I expect him to do, he'll be top 5 In terms of Mitchell's stuff, you are missing a few things. Mitchell has turned the corner with his curveball, which is one of the reasons why he's got a pretty good K rate for a sinkerballer, and he made strides with his changeup. If he gets that thing down, then he'll profile well in the rotation. If not, then he is a Shields-like reliever with deception, movement and velocity

Corban Joseph plays multiple positions and has shown the basic tools to be a good middle infielder. His bat is what I like more than anything else. And it isnt just the average with Joseph, he was 20 last yr and had a big IsoPatience which I like and really started smoking the ball into the gaps towards the end of the yr. I dont really look at BABIP in the minors, to be honest with you. The fact that the kid was a yr or two younger than most in tnat league, AND he was in his first full professional season was impressive. He will earn that spot, I guarantee it. I dont have a lot of info on Bryan Mitchell aside from what I got from PP, hence why I ranked him so low. Plus, with him being a HSer, I figure he has room to improve. But everything I have read on him is impressive I have Mitchell over Vizcaino mostly because Mitchell showed it at a higher level. VIz has a much higher ceiling, but I doubt his ability to stay healthy. But if both are healthy and make the majors, Viz will be a lot better

catcher's ERA is a meaningless stat. You continue to spout about it like's its a time honored important stat. Seriously, get back on the short bus, strap on your helmet, change your drool stained shirt and grab your binky.

So you think that a cERA difference of 0.1 is significant? Really? The CS% and the PB% dont matter? Oh, and Cervelli caught approximately 250 innings. Gom, you should go back to polluting the minds of sox fans. You are too dumb to refute anything with me.

He can never justify any of his opinions. He's just another moron with a keyboard.

I said for 2009. Molina was not as good defensively in 09. He threw out only 28% of the runners stealing, his second lowest total of his career. He also allowed 3 passed balls in 357 inning caught, which was one of his worst percentages of his career. Cervelli, OTOH, threw out 43.5% of baserunners and had no passed balls. And the CERA you hold so dear to your heart was nearly identical 3.31 for Molina and 3.43 for Cervelli. Cervelli was the better catcher in 2009, arguing this point is stupid, unless you are going to use your standard useless drivel of watching the games. Which I did, probably more than you and from a better vantage point than you did. Watching the games from the bleachers tells you nothing. Watching the games on a 50 inch HD TV actually gives you a better view of the game. In other words, you are wrong, AGAIN

You obviously dont watch the games as much as you say. There is not much more to say about that. Not much more at all. Your love affair with Molina is unfounded and completely and totally wrong. I do find it funny that the season Molina catches almost exclusively, we dont even make the playoffs, and the yr he is almost entirely a backup, we win a WS. Do you find it ironic? Do you also find it funny how wrong you are when it comes to your assessment of players? You are wrong a lot. Actually, almost all the time.

You are also missing the point entirely when you look at some of the smaller market teams. Some of them dont even try to contend, so considering them in the equation is disingenuous. Teams like TB, Florida, SD earlier in the decade, made it actually accepted that smaller market teams could win. You just need to run your business more efficiently. There is no doubt that money allows you to cover your mistakes, but it is by no means an absolute limiting factor for success

Florida Marlins 2003 Anaheim Angels 2002

Wait, so you are lamenting the loss of Bruney, Coke, Molina, and Wang? From our championship team? Wang was a negative factor on the team, he accounted for more losses than wins overall Bruney was a flame throwing, inconsistent reliever who was essentially useless come the end of the yr. He was a candidate for DFA in ST Coke was a reliable lefty reliever until he lost his velocity, then became useless against lefty hitters. He was a candidate for DFA this ST if he didnt regain his velocity Molina is a no-hit all glove backup catcher who couldnt stay healthy. We have a younger, better offensive version of Molina who will stay healthy in Cervelli. You apparently didnt watch the month that Cervelli started. He was better defensively and offensively than Molina. Those guys contributed minimally to the championship and not at all in the playoffs. Trust me, we have much better options who will be auditioning in ST. Much better. Cervelli takes Molina's spot Michael Dunn, hard throwing lefty with wipeout slider takes the place of Coke Mark Melancon, a top 10 yankee prospect and former star closer for UAriz will take the place of Bruney And Wang was superfluous, replaceable by anyone who doesnt allow an earned run per inning. We have options and those guys really didnt play much of a role at all in our championship run

Look at the stats since 2004 and you decide

Red Sox fans have zero ground to complain about the financial inequities of the baseball system

How is it out of line? You guys would be KILLING us if one of our prospects killed a guy.

OPS+ is a useful stat when used sparingly. Both of these guys played in tough ballparks. But the Tigers play in the AL and get to face very tough rotations regularly. I understand the whole NL West aces, but the rest of those rotations suck. I find it very hard to believe that AdGon would be able to replicate Cabrera's #s in Tiger's Stadium. Plus, Cabrera has been playing at this level since 2004, while AdGon really exploded this past season

Wait, so you bashed the Yankees for giving away Damon and Matsui. You bashed the acquisitions of Johnson and Granderson. Your only leg to stand on is a potential drop in power. Yet you are predicting that Johnson and Granderson will out-homer Matsui and Damon? Do you even read what you type?

It was an off color joke