mtbykr

Ok, if my memory serves me correctly we were leading by more than 3 at the half of the superbowls and we only won all three by 3 points. We generally played worse in the 2nd half of the games, so the whole 'stealing signs and making halftime adjustments' theory is pretty moot.

The players have said (both current and former) that they don't know anything about this. The reason being is the tape was used in the coaches prep for the next game and then any tendencies, ect... is relayed to the players, they don't know where it comes from. We keep SF pick in 08, and will lose our first rounder (which is hopefully the last of the round). We'll make the playoffs so it's def not going to be the 2nd or 3rd (and we have 2 3rd rounders in 08)

Apparently you don't pay attention. The pats didn't get busted for stealing signs, they got busted for having a camera on the field. They and every other team will try to steal signs, audibles, ect..during the game. The commish and BB said that the camera had nothing to do with the game (or any game in progress)...as i have been saying they used the camera for the next time they played, not to steal signals (because they would have changed them by them), but to see how they called a game, tendencies ect.... just in case you missed this:

By the way SFOC, thanks for doing this! I know i've said it before, but it can't hurt to say it again

BB statement:

Like I thought Goodell wanted to make an example out of the pats and did so with the maximum fine he could impose on BB. I think it's garbage to lose a draft pick (especially a #1 considering the broncos only lost a #3 for cheating the cap during their superbowl years)...however the always prepared pats have a higher #1 even after losing this one. (hopefully SF loses a lot this year ) I also wouldn't be surprised if BB went to Kraft and told him he'd take the $250k hit the team got as well. (although we would never hear if he did) I guess we'll see what happens as now there's the news storys about the Jets camera man during the same game only filming when the pats were on D (then putting the camera down when they weren't) I somehow doubt though that it will make many headlines. Ohh and here's what the NFL said about the effect on the game: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?sl...ov=ap&type=lgns

Here's the pic that everyone thinks was the pats guy: http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/9494/patscameraff5.jpg It's not the pats guy, the pats guy was on the pats sideline. What's hilarious about this is now (just heard on the news) it's coming out that the guy in the pic is a JETS employee with JETS credentials. (cameragate was a pats guy with pats credentials) He's on the sideline with a camera and not part of the camera crew. So where's the outrage over this? Again, this is a big deal becuase it's the pats.

Please realize that even if the pats wanted to try and use that tape sunday it was confiscated at the beggining of the game.........so it had no impact on the outcome of the game. In addition (as i have mentioned) this tape would have been used the next time the pats play the jets to study their tendency's and how they call the game.

NFL Live: [youtube=NFL Live]6IO90vc3d9E

I heard the first quarter...8 minutes into the game. Either way they weren't using it for that game. Here's an interesting take from "the best damn sports show" [youtube=best damn]6IngYS0Tkqg

No that's not the guy. ESPN has been running this for a while now and that's not the guy. The guy in question was on the pats sideline not the jets. Not that it makes a difference, just pointing it out

A guy in the post, you mean a NY guy thinks that's fair:rolleyes: The camera incident didn't affect this game one bit..it's impossible to match up the video from that camera with the pics from each play......and do it all in the 10minutes at halftime. Let's also not forget that this camera was confiscated in the 1st quarter, so the pats never had a chance to see it....so the JETS just got beat, deal with it. As I have mentioned before the pats used this tape for future games to see tendencies, nothing more.

I'm not trying to justify anything....just sticking to the facts. If they broke that rule, then punish them...but let's not pretend stealing signs is illegal. If the pats are the only team that does it, why does everyone cover their mouth when they talk on the headset, or have 3 coaches giving signals (one of whom is the actual one).....they do this because everyone does it, the pats broke the camera rule (apparently) and should be punished accordingly

The JETS won't get any pics...if the pats lose them they are just gone. This isn't worse that roids which give you an obvious advantage on the field. The pats use this video before the next time they play them to see if they can find a tendency in how they call the game. Every team does this (which isn't illegal), the pats just shouldn't have used their own camera. (which is illegal)

I haven't weighed in on this yet, so i figure i will. This is the rule in question: This is the rule the pats 'apparently' (no ruling from the NFL, so we'll see) broke. What they did wrong was use video equipment, they didn't "cheat" as so many hear would like to believe. Every NFL team out there watches the other teams coaches to see signs of what they are doing, tendencies, ect... The problem here is that the pats brought their own video to the field. Trying to steal signals is not illegal, using video equipment, tape, ect.. is not illegal.........but bringing their own onto the field is. Every team has coaches who watch the other sideline and try to pick stuff up during the game (including the pats) but the video isn't used for that. There is no way to match up film from certain plays with the play itself in order to 'get an advantage'....just no way to do that in the 10 minutes at halftime. The pats use this film of the coaches for the next time they play. The other team (jets in this case) would have already changed their signals...the pats are just looking for tendencies in how they call the game. Again doing this isn't illegal, teams do it all the time on film...the pats just used their own camera instead which is against the rules. A lot of people have been looking for a reason to hate the pats, and this gives them that reason. The competition committee blew this up from the beginning because they are tyring to get the 'more radio's in helmet' rule passed and this will give them the ammo they need. (they have been short 2 votes so far) This wouldn't have gone anywhere if it wasn't the pats, period. Last year Miami was caught getting signals of Brady's audibles at the line. They bought a tape of it, and also mic'd up dlineman to use at a later date. There wasn't a big deal made of this because Miami sucked, and nobody cared. (if the pats did that last year, it would be just as big as this is now) The pats broke the rule of bringing the video onto the field (apparently, no NFL ruling) so they should be punished accordingly. However the comish no doubt will want to make an example out of them with this...i guess we'll see.

400, is that a record?

I keep my hat dirty, can I play right at Fenway?

I bet all the players are thrilled to hear that

NFL Point Spreads For Week 2 - 9/16 - 9/17, 2007 Spread Category : Date & Time.... Favorite .......................Spread ....................Underdog 9/16 1:00 ET At Pittsburgh.......................... -9.......................... Buffalo 9/16 1:00 ET Cincinnati............................. -5.5........................ At Cleveland 9/16 1:00 ET Indianapolis ...........................-7.......................... At Tennessee 9/16 1:00 ET At Carolina........................... -6.5......................... Houston 9/16 1:00 ET At St. Louis............................ -3.......................... San Francisco 9/16 1:00 ET At NY Giants.......................... -1........................... Green Bay 9/16 1:00 ET At Jacksonville..................... -10.5........................ Atlanta 9/16 1:00 ET New Orleans........................ -3.5..........................At Tampa Bay 9/16 4:05 ET At Detroit............................. -3.............................Minnesota 9/16 4:05 ET Dallas.................................. -3.5......................... At Miami 9/16 4:05 ET Seattle................................ -2.5......................... At Arizona 9/16 4:15 ET At Baltimore......................... -7.5......................... NY Jets 9/16 4:15 ET At Denver............................ -9.5......................... Oakland 9/16 4:15 ET At Chicago......................... -12.5......................... Kansas City 9/16 8:15 ET At New England................... -3.5.......................... San Diego Monday Night Football Point Spread 9/17 8:30 ET At Philadelphia....................... -7.......................... Washington Straight Category : Date & Time.... Favorite .................................................. .....Underdog 9/16 1:00 ET At Pittsburgh........................................ ................ Buffalo 9/16 1:00 ET Cincinnati........................................ .................... At Cleveland 9/16 1:00 ET Indianapolis .................................................. ...... At Tennessee 9/16 1:00 ET At Carolina.......................................... ................ Houston 9/16 1:00 ET At St. Louis............................................. ............ San Francisco 9/16 1:00 ET At NY Giants............................................ ............ Green Bay 9/16 1:00 ET At Jacksonville...................................... ............... Atlanta 9/16 1:00 ET New Orleans........................................... .............At Tampa Bay 9/16 4:05 ET At Detroit........................................... ..................Minnesota 9/16 4:05 ET Dallas............................................ ..................... At Miami 9/16 4:05 ET Seattle........................................... .................... At Arizona 9/16 4:15 ET At Baltimore......................................... ............... NY Jets 9/16 4:15 ET At Denver............................................ ............... Oakland 9/16 4:15 ET At Chicago........................................... ............... Kansas City 9/16 8:15 ET At New England........................................... ........ San Diego Monday Night Football Point Spread 9/17 8:30 ET At Philadelphia...................................... ............... Washington Monday Night Football Total Points Scored ................................. ____38____

I think he is and will be, but as with Peyton I prefer to wait till their career is over to completely evaluate him.

He's played error-less 1st base on the best team in baseball.....he should be the leader in the GG right now.

Right now that is true....but isn't Favre getting ready to break some of Marino's records that all the 'stat people' here hold in such high regard? (those same records that the same people are saying Peyton will break which will help make him the greatest) If Peyton continues like he has (again he's got a long way to go) he will be one of the greatest, obviously better than Favre.....just pointing out the facts.

No idea, i only looked up stats with the sox. He was with Oakland before which is a terrible offense. Some people play better in boston (o-cab) and some people don't (rent-a-wreck) so i prefer to look at their time in boston only (my preference) since that's what we actually care about.

Great QB's find a way to win the games they should. Peyton generally crapps the bed in the playoffs (meaningful games) while slamming stats during the regular season and running up the score. He finally got his superbowl last year, but even then he crapped the bed when the pats defensive starters were in there....it took the flu, san diego trip, and a 4th string secondary to get by the pats. There is no doubt that he will be up there if his career keeps going the way it has been, but to call him the greatest right now is foolish. (and again 'greatness' is all perception). Let's give Peyton his due, but let's not get carried away.