mtbykr

So your saying that Montana is the best QB in meaningful games while Peyton is great at padding his stats against lousy teams?

The red sox universe this year: avg - obp - slg - ops Kielty: .303 .324 .424 .749 Drew: .252 .353 .378 .731 Granted Kielty is a smaller sample size with the sox, but we can't do much worse than Drew right now. I hope Drew can turn it around, but it's september and he's had plenty of time.

Boston: Ellsbury-LF Pedroia-2B Ortiz-DH Lowell-3B Youkilis-1B Drew-RF Varitek-C Crisp-CF Lugo-SS SP-Lester Baltimore: Roberts-2B Mora-3B Markakis-RF Tejada-SS Millar-1B Huff-DH Hernandez-C Payton-LF Redman-CF SP-Cabrera

Let's wait and see once he's done. He could get injured next week and never return to the NFL, so let's wait till he hangs it up. If he continues on this pace, it will be hard not to vote for him. However different people judge things differently; some people consider Marino with the records while some consider Montana with the rings. Perspective is a funny thing!

I was being sarcastic, I know who he is!

They didn't include Fitzy in the top 10 so i'm not gonna vote

Doubt baseball can do anything about it.....i also heard that he stopped getting it in early 05

He's just going to use it as a prop for his next commercial JK, very nice to see!

This is my 2nd year with the pics....have we ever given any thought to using the yahoo pick system? I don't care, just saw it and thought I would mention it. http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/pickem

Red Sox 1. Julio Lugo, SS 2. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF 3. David Ortiz, DH 4. Mike Lowell, 3B 5. J.D. Drew, RF 6. Kevin Youkilis, 1B 7. Jason Varitek, C 8. Coco Crisp, CF 9. Alex Cora, 2B SP - Curt Schilling Blue Jays 1. Vernon Wells, CF 2. Matt Stairs, LF 3. Alex Rios, RF 4. Frank Thomas, DH 5. Troy Glaus, 3B 6. Lyle Overbay, 1B 7. Aaron Hill, 2B 8. Gregg Zaun, C 9. John McDonald, SS SP - Shaun Marcum

Week One NFL Football Spread - NFL Game Spreads 9/6 - 9/10, 2007 Spread Category Date & Time...... Favorite................. Spread ................Underdog 9/6 8:30 ET At Indianapolis................... -5.5.................... New Orleans 9/9 1:00 ET At Houston.......................... -3..................... Kansas City 9/9 1:00 ET Denver.............................. -3.5.................... At Buffalo 9/9 1:00 ET Pittsburgh.......................... -4.5.................... At Cleveland 9/9 1:00 ET At Jacksonville.................... -6.5 ...................Tennessee 9/9 1:00 ET At St. Louis.......................... -1.................... Carolina 9/9 1:00 ET Philadelphia......................... -3..................... At Green Bay 9/9 1:00 ET At Minnesota ...................... -3..................... Atlanta 9/9 1:00 ET At Washington..................... -3..................... Miami 9/9 1:00 ET New England...................... -6.5................... At NY Jets 9/9 4:15 ET At Seattle............................ -6.................... Tampa Bay 9/9 4:15 ET At San Diego....................... -6..................... Chicago 9/9 4:15 ET At Oakland .........................-1.5.................... Detroit 9/9 8:15 ET At Dallas............................. -6..................... NY Giants Monday Night Football Point Spread 9/10 7:00 ET At Cincinnat...................... -2.5................... Baltimore 9/10 10:15 ET At San Francisco.............. -3..................... Arizona Straight Category Date & Time...... Favorite................. Spread ................Underdog 9/6 8:30 ET At Indianapolis...................................... ........ New Orleans 9/9 1:00 ET At Houston........................................... ........ Kansas City 9/9 1:00 ET Denver............................................ ............ At Buffalo 9/9 1:00 ET Pittsburgh........................................ ............ At Cleveland 9/9 1:00 ET At Jacksonville...................................... ........Tennessee 9/9 1:00 ET At St. Louis............................................. ..... Carolina 9/9 1:00 ET Philadelphia...................................... ........... At Green Bay 9/9 1:00 ET At Minnesota .............................................. Atlanta 9/9 1:00 ET At Washington........................................ ..... Miami 9/9 1:00 ET New England........................................... .... At NY Jets 9/9 4:15 ET At Seattle........................................... ........ Tampa Bay 9/9 4:15 ET At San Diego............................................. .. Chicago 9/9 4:15 ET At Oakland ................................................. Detroit 9/9 8:15 ET At Dallas............................................ ......... NY Giants Monday Night Football Point Spread 9/10 7:00 ET At Cincinnat......................................... ..... Baltimore 9/10 10:15 ET At San Francisco...................................... Arizona Monday Night Football --Cinn./ Balt. Total Points Scored............................................ ...... ___45______

Red Sox 1. Julio Lugo, SS 2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B 3. David Ortiz, DH 4. Mike Lowell, 3B 5. J.D. Drew, RF 6. Kevin Youkilis, 1B 7. Jason Varitek, C 8. Coco Crisp, CF 9. Jacoby Ellsbury, LF SP - Josh Beckett Blue Jays 1. Vernon Wells, CF 2. Matt Stairs, LF 3. Alex Rios, RF 4. Frank Thomas, DH 5. Troy Glaus, 3B 6. Lyle Overbay, 1B 7. Aaron Hill, 2B 8. Gregg Zaun, C 9. John McDonald, SS SP - Roy Halladay

I put in the Moss part because he brought it up, and because there was an interview playing on ESPN all day. Moss hasn't played one snap and we will see how it works out with him. However in listening to that interview he is doing what the pats require of him to be there......that's all I'm saying. Correct, he just wanted to win. I never said it would have worked anywhere else...he just happen to come to the pats and it worked. Please provide an example of me doing this, because i haven't As I've stated before (many times) BB will always do what's in the best interest of the team. Cutting the captain, leader of the defense, ect...is not in the best interest of the team. The pats don't cut someone for making a mistake, they cut them if it's in the best interest of the team. If someone has a bad rep, and come here and make trouble, then they will get cut because that's what's best for the team.....not too hard an equation I have never said the pats think their better than everyone else, only Kilo has. Every team does things their own way, don't fault the pats because the media want to make them out to be something their not. There are plenty of examples where players have had problems with one team and gone to another and been fine.....there are examples all over the NFL, including the pats.

How are you coming to these conclusions, because I have never said anything like this? You keep claiming that they take credit for being the best in football, I have never said that and I don't know of any instance where they have done this. All I have said is that the pats have their system, and they bring people in that fit their system. Players know, or are told what is required of them if they want to play there...if it doesn't work out then they are cut. That's how the pats do business, and I am sure that there are a lot of others teams that act the same way. (i have never said otherwise). I do think that from the ownership down the pats try and be the best they can. Dillion worked here, if it didn't he would have been let go....there are plenty of players who didn't work here. Please provide one example of how the pats organization has "taken credit for dillon" or "turned away from the rodney situation". I think you buy a little too much into what the media says about the pats! I could care less what you do. I was simply stating what the differences where between rodney and merriman. In addition I was showing how he could have very easily gotten away with it if he lied and said something like "i bought it, but never used it". I never said he was a stand up guy for using or getting caught. I said he's a stand up guy period: he was a stand up guy before, made a mistake, and when confronted instead of running he owned up to it. I could list a lot of examples here like putting people through college, putting in new gym floors for churches, ect.. (all of which were done without the media, and if it not for the church calling WEEI nobody would have ever known) Rodney was a stand up guy before all of this happened, he made a mistake ( a huge and really stupid one) but he's owned up to it and will take his punishment and go on. The difference between us is that we both know he cheated, we both think it was stupid, but I realize that he's a good guy who made a huge mistake and I can look past it after he has served his time........you are just looking for something else to rip the pats because you have some preconceived notion that they think their better than everyone else. I never asked you to cut him some slack, and if you would actually read my post you would realize that I said the same thing you did in your PS:rolleyes: I simply pointed out the differences between the cases, where you want to lump everything together No their both idiots for using a banned substance, getting caught was just the end result. Please just stick to the relevant facts, and don't lump me in with all pats fans. You seem to love to generalize everything without being able to distinguish noticable differences. I never criticized SD for letting him play. I will criticize the NFL for having him in the running for defensive player of the year in a year where he was suspended for roids. I don't blame SD for having one of their best players play after serving his time. I can't stand Merriman, but he should be on the field if his team wants him to be :wtf: No I'm not. I simply pointed out how his mind may have rationalized it at the time. I am not making excuses, what he did was wrong and he should be punished (which I've said many times) Wrong again, they were illegal. MLB didn't have it on their list, but it was illegal in the US. HGH didn't help Rodney on the field, it helped him get their quicker. If you look at the play of him before and after it's the same......Bonds play before and after was quite different. Both are illegal, but in different ways....if you can't distinguish that in your mind then i can't help you No it's not....me saying i can understand how he probably rationalized it is not me making an excuse for him. I can understand something without agreeing with it...i can understand why he did it (and it's speculation on my part), but that doesn't mean i condone it, agree with it, or make excuses for it. I'm not trying to change your mind, it's made up and that's fine. The pats have their way of doing things and you have some preconceived notion that they think their better than everyone else. Every team in the NFL has thier own way of doing things, the pats just seems to work a little better.....the results speak for themselves!

Actually probably the most important defensive leader; it sucks, and this reflects on him and him alone. I also think (which i have mentioned) that he showed his character when he came forward and owned up, took responsibility, and took the punishment. He could have very easily gotten out of it since they only have proof that he bought a small amount. Everyone makes mistakes, and that's what this is...it was a mistake. It's how one handles it when push comes to shove that shows the true character of the man. I've made plenty of mistakes, and I've taken the hit for them as well. How is Moss not playing in a month because of an injury even relevant to your argument? (i guess your hatred boiling over again) When I brought him up I was speaking of his attitude in settling into the pats system. In an interview today it was very evident....he came here to win and to be part of this team. Please don't compare Rodney and Merriman. The only thing they have in common (other than playing for SD) is that they both were suspended 4 games for a banned substance. Merriman failed a roid test, and then tried to spin the whole thing with the ' it must have been a supplement' crap. Merriman used roids to help him gain an edge on the field....rodney used HGH while off the field rehabbing his knee. (which in turn got him back on the field probably faster) Rodney never failed a test, never used a banned substance on the field, but was caught via paperwork buying HGH. He made a stupid decision to use something to help rehab his knee (that again is common practice outside of the NFL) and now he will pay the price. I can tell you he is a stand up guy; he made a mistake and he owned up to it when he could have lied and gotten out of it......while merriman continues the spin to this day, please don't compare the two. You act like I'm making excuses for Rodney which I'm not. Bonds used stuff to help his on the field performance. (allegedly since we don't have any positive tests, just the book) Rodney did the crime, he will do the time. Period. My whole point here was to say that this is an example of how anyone can make a mistake and I can understand how he came to the decision. (while i don't agree with it, i can understand how he probably rationalized it at the time) With all that said however it's a moot point because your mind is made up, you hate the pats, and this is just something else to rip them on. I can present you with all the facts, but your emotion is running your argument. We can agree then to disagree. Rodney will serve his time and come back, it was a stupid thing to do and he will pay for it the rest of his life.

Fair enough, I knew what you meant I just don't think i came across the right way. I don't condone what he did, I'm not making excuses, ect... He did it and he deserves the punishment. I'm just glad he stood up and took the responsibility and the punishment instead of spinning it. Again I'm not making excuses for him...just trying to understand how a guy that I (along with many more) respect could come to a decision like this. I am sure he probably thought something like "well I'm not going to use it on the field, to enhance my play, ect...just to help me recover...and it's used for this purpose outside the NFL" I guess I can understand how he came to such a stupid decision. The human mind can justify anything in the moment when the goal is in sight.

I wonder if Oki is looking tired becuase this is about the time the Japan season ends. Let's hope we can give him plenty of time off to get ready for the postseason

to my knowledge (and I'm no expert) there is no accurate test. The reason being the human body actually makes HGH (or what HGH is supposed to act like) so in small amounts it's untraceable....however in large amounts they can detect it.................but since the test isn't accurate the NFL won't allow it.

I agree...at first I hated Giambi (mostly because of the HR's in the 03alcs which were tainted) but it takes a big man to come forward and tell the truth and give him credit for that. I look at Rodney's situation a little different. He took HGH after his knee injury, to help him recover. HGH in small amounts is very helpful in this arena, and is prescribed by doctors in a lot of cases. He used it to help him heal and then quit when he got back on the field.....Giambi used it to enhance his play on the field. Now Rodney was never caught using it and could have easily pulled the "i bought it and then threw it away without using it" line.........but he didn't, he took responsibility and will take his punishment. The bottom line is it was cheating and he should be punished. He is, is not trying to get out of it, and will come back after it's done.

Obviously you hate the pats and that has clouded your judgement. Dillion, and Moss for example came in to the pats system and did (and are doing) what they were supposed to do. They did this because they wanted to win and no crap is tolerated here like it was where they came from....no playing things out in the media, ect.... Rodney made a mistake, and he will pay dearly for it. (losing 25% of this years salary and any shot at the HOF) I don't condone or excuse what he did; he did it and must pay the price. I still do however respect him for the person he is. The evidence that the investigators have says that he bought a small amount of HGH. (small amounts are actually prescribed by doctors for certain conditions, large amounts are harmful) He could have easily said that he bought it, thought better of it, and threw it away without ever using it and there is nothing that the NFL could do. (there is no test for HGH) However he came forward, told the truth, took responsibility, and will take the punishment. Most people today, athletes included, would try everything to get out of it. Say what you want about him, but he did something wrong and when confronted he told the truth instead of spinning it. Most people will rip him, rip the pats, ect... and that's fine.....the majority of them hate the pats to begin with so what does it matter. The pats aren't perfect, and took it hard because their defensive leader and heart of the team is responsible for this storm right now. I guess if there is any positive i can take out of this it's that Rodney took this while he was off the field trying to recover (ironically small amounts are prescribed for this type injury...just not in the NFL as it's illegal) and stopped when he got back on the field....that and the fact that he stood up and took responsibility instead of trying to dodge and spin it. Again I am not condoning what he did, i guess i can understand why he would try it.....although he and everybody else has to realize that there are consequences to your actions.

Just getting in to see the end of the game...how has Ellsbury looked tonight?