TheRivernator

but if you took Al Weis and had him play in 115 games in the postseason, he'd end up being that .219 hitter overall. My point is, if you get enough opps, you will revert to your career baseline. BUT, if your hits or walks or plays are the impetus for game winning rallies, or your hits are timely, then you are clutch. Look at the individual game performances that I pined through yesterday. He had one game where he was 1 for 7, but that one hit was a 3 run go ahead double against Pedro. That is my point. The stats would say that he is 1 for 7 in that game, but he got the most important hit for us. Unfortunately our pen couldnt hold it. He always seems to be the guy who gets that hit in the right spots for us. Usually when he is leading off an inning where the game is close, he'll be the guy to get on base. Our lineup takes a ton of credit too, in that they can get him home, but you cannot dispute the fact that he is one of the best postseason rally starters in the history of the game and his rally starting ability is the single most important factor for our offense being able to put up enough runs for us to win 4 WS..... BTW, Mr. Crunch, he was horrible at the end of games in the regular season, but he was good in that angels series. One of the only ones for that matter...

He did have a similar stretch last yr. Last 4 starts- 21.1IP 17ER 13K 12BB 26H 3 starts in april last yr after he beat the sox- 20IP 14ER 19H 21K 3BB The huge difference on there is the walks. Yeah the K's are a little down, but for a guy who walked 47 in 225.2IP last yr, having 12 in 21.1IP is alarming. The fact that he walked one and didnt walk any after the first batter of the game makes me think he is on his way back. His K totals are definitely showing that his dominance is waning, but that has more to do with his slider not sliding than anything. His fastball is actually faster this yr than it was at this junture last yr....

you keep hiding behind the numbers, I have shown you what those numbers manifested. If he goes 1 for 5 with a single that just so happened to be the game winning run, he hit .200 for the game, but he had the single most important hit of that game. See where I am getting? His stats dont tell the whole story, you have to look at each individual game...

He is perceived as a savior. He isnt a savior, but he is certainly clutch....

I love Mo, good choice...

So what explains the fact that he just seems to get on base when needed the most. If he averaged .380 OBP, why does it seem that he reaches base and subsequently scores important runs in important games in the postseason more often than not? Why does it seem that if he reaches base one time in a game, it just so happens to be in the 7th or 8th inning of a tight game and he eventually scores the game winning or game tying run? I have posted his triumphs, dispute them.....

Cmon now. The full out barrage by boston beat writers was about Ortiz' performance in the clutch over ARod's "stat-piling". Don't get a holier than thou attitude and start saying that you didnt buy the hype (I did, Ortiz was more valuable in the clutch)....

I agree. I have faith in the fact that he'll regain his effectiveness, but his days as a shut down #1 are likely over...

No, I am arguing that his stats dont explain the whole thing. Kinda like how you guys were explaining how ARod's superior stats last yr didnt stand up to when Ortiz put up his stats (BTW, I agreed with you and thought Ortiz was the MVP).

Clutch is defined as...a tight or critical situation in webster's dictionary. If he scores the go ahead run in a tie game, I would consider it a tight situation. Granted, if he scored the game winning run in the 3rd inning, the pitcher was more clutch, but we arent arguing who is more clutch, we are arguing if he is clutch....

It definitely plays a role. This isnt Jeter putting everyone on his back and saying, I WILL GET YOU TO THE PROMISED LAND ROAR!!!!! This is him being up at the right times and getting on base, which, due to his solid lineup following him, usually results in him scoring clutch runs. You cannot dispute the facts I produced, because they are fact. Hence, I'll continue to believe that in the playoffs, late in a game, there is nobody I'd rather have leading off an inning than him, period. If I could take any hitter in the game and have them leadoff the 9th when my team is down a run, I'd take him. He wont hit the tater, he may not even hit the ball period. But he'll get on base and be a pest....

did you watch the game? I take it you didnt. He isnt going to throw 99 mph anymore, we saw that last season. But, he was consistently at 94-95 against the A's yesterday. Also, if you look at his recent stretch, take a look at his BB totals, those are telling. In his first 3 starts, he had 1 BB. In his last few starts he had 12+. His control was off. The fact that he walked the first batter and didnt walk anyone after that shows me that his control is there. Listen, I am not anywhere near close to betting on one of his games, so dont consider me someone who thinks he is a guy who will K 12 and pitch a shutout here, but trust me on this one, he is on his way back. I could see a 6-7IP 2-3R performance in his next start with progressive improvement after that. He did this to us last yr too. He starts out of the gate hot, hits a horrible cold spell making us all hate his guts, then he turns it on. He'll find it again...

You are right, somebody has to come through. But at the same time, sombody has to start the rally in the first place and Jeter always seems to be the one to do it. If you want to see an example of it blowing up, look at last yr. Yankees down 2 in the 9th and Jeter leads off with a single and is promptly doubled up on the ARod choke job. The fact remains, Jeter is the guy who will step up in the postseason and get on base, period. 8th inning, down a run, he'll walk, get HBP, or single for the most part and get on base. Somebody has to drive him in, absolutely, and that is why Bernie and him together have been an amazing combo. And for those of you who want to use Ortiz as a reference, lets not forget that he was pretty much non-existant in 2003 and last yrs postseason (even though his overall stats were good) he was basically a choke artist, going 0 for 3 in the last 2 games when the sox were trailing by a run. I know, small sample size, but he couldnt even get on base to start something. Listen, I'm not advocating for Jeter to be considered the best postseason player of all time (Mantle has that), I am saying that he is the best fire starter in the postseason's recent memory. Nobody has shown the ability to start a rally when their team needs them like he has. Granted, he relies on someone else to drive him in, but therein liesa the question. Is it not clutch to start the rally? I think it is, and when he continually does it even though he may have choked early on in the game, does that make him non-clutch. A 1 for 5 may go into the books, but that 1 might be the single in the 9th where he would come around to score the winning run. Break it down and look before you blindly follow an article created to incite....

again, his regular season numbers with close and late or RISP or whatever are not the topic being brought up here. It is the postseason numbers that are on trial here.

So you cannot be clutch in the 3rd inning? If you drive in the go-ahead run in the 3rd inning and your pitching closes the door from then on out, is that an indictment against him for not being clutch? Seriously, you guys have such a bias against Jeter that you cannot look at things in perspective. Many times, the above hits were his only hits of the game. Basically, what the above shows is that he is not the guy finishing the rallies like your typical "clutch" player, but he is the guy starting them. He is part of nearly every yankee postseason rally, and he makes his hits count when he gets them. I cannot tell you how many of the above hits were the only hits of the game for him. I think it was Dana who said that Jeter was 4 for 20 in games 4-7 in the ALCS, but one of those hits was a go-ahead 2 run double in the 7th inning against pedro which set up the choke of game 5. Everyone likes to take his stats as a whole and say someone is not clutch, but I always thought the definition of clutch was getting the hits when you truly need them. When you are trailing at any time of the game and you need a rally. At the beginning of the game to spark a rally, in the middle of the game to tie things up or go ahead, or at the end of the game when your team is running out of outs. Hence, if you are going to use the term clutch, then you arent using it properly. Jeter may not be as big a postseason horse as he is made out to be, but he is certainly the guy you want up there when the games are on the line and you need a rally starter. So for all you who want to try and find chinks in his armor or want to spit on his accomplishments, take a look at the world series runs and how integral he was in late game comebacks and how he was the man driving the rallies of our 4 world championship teams.....

I'll give you a game by game workup of what Jeter has done in his postseason career and you be the judge of his clutch value 10/2/1996 Yankees vs Rangers 12th inning in Yankee stadium, Jeter leads off with single and eventually scores the winning run. 10/4/1996 Yankees vs Rangers, 9th inning, Rangers lead 2-1. Jeter leads off with a single, hustles to third on Raines' single. He scored the tying run, Yankees won 3-2 10/9/1996 Yankees vs Orioles. 8th inning, Jeter hits game tying HR in the Jeffrey Maier game 10/11/1996 Yankees vs Orioles. 8th inning, Orioles lead 2-1. Jeter hits a 2 out double sparking a 4 run rally, yankees win 5-2 10/22/1996 Yankees vs Braves 8th inning, Yankees lead 2-1. Jeter leads off with a single and scores what ends up being the winning run as the yankees win 5-2 10/23/1996 Yankees vs Braves 6th inning, yankees down 6-0, Jeter leads off with a single and sparks a 3 run rally. Leyritz hits the game tying HR in the 8th. In the 10th inning of that game, Jeter singled to extend the inning and eventually scored the 8th run, yankees win 8-6 in 10 10/26/1996 Yankees vs Braves 3rd inning. Jeter with an RBI single to give the yankees a lead. He steals second and scores on a single barely beating the throw on a great slide. Yankees won the game 3-2 and won the WS. He was the rally starter in 7 of the 11 wins in the 96 postseason 9/30/1997 Yankees vs Cleveland 6th inning. Game tied 6-6. Jeter hits the eventual game winning HR, yankees win 8-6 Yankees lose series 3-2 to cleveland 10/6/1998 Yankees vs Cleveland 1st inning. Knobby and Jeter lead the game off with back to back singles sparking a 5 run 1st and the yankees never look backand win 7-2 10/13/1998 Yankees vs Cleveland Jeter singles with one out in the 1st inning and sparks a 2 run first inning, yankees lead 2-0. 6th inning, yankees lead 6-5. Jeter hits a 2 run triple and later scores, effectively putting the game out of reach, yankees eliminate the Guardians 9-5 10/17/1998 Yankees vs Padres, 7th inning game tied 5-5. Jeter singles and eventually scored the go ahead run. Yankees go on to win game 1 of the WS 10/18/1998 Yankees vs Padres. Derek Jeter singles home Chuck Knoblauch in the 2nd inning for the 4th run of the game, which was the eventual game winner 10/21/1998 Yankees vs Padres. 0-0 in the 6th inning. Jeter singles and scores the eventual game winner as the yankees win the world series. 10/5/1999 Yankees vs Rangers. Up 1-0, Jeter sparks a 2 run rally in the 5th with a single and starts a 4 run rally in the 6th with a walk as the yankees defeat the Rangers in game 1 of the ALDS 10/6/1999 Yankees vs Rangers. Up 2-1 in the 8th inning, Jeter singles and scores an important insurance run to put the game away. 10/9/1999 Yankees vs Rangers. Jeter hits a one out triple in the 1st inning sparking a 3 run rally. The yankees win 3-0 and sweep the rangers 10/13/1999 Yankees vs Red Sox. Red sox lead 3-2 in the 7th inning, when Jeter hits the game tying RBI single off Derek Lowe. Yankees won in the 10th. 10/17/1999 Yankees vs Red Sox. Yankees up 3-2 in the 9th inning. Knobby and Jeter hit back to back 1 out singles sparking a 6 run rally to put the game away. Yankees win series 4-1 10/23/1999 Yankees vs Braves 8th inning, Braves lead 1-0. Jeter hits the game tying single and eventually scores as the yankees win. 10/24/1999 Yankees vs Braves. Knobby and Jeter lead the game off with back to back singles and spark a 3 run rally and the yankees never looked back. 10/27/1999 Yankees vs Braves. 3rd inning 0-0. Knobby and Jeter hit back to back singles and score in a 3 run inning. Yankees win 4-1 and sweep the world series 10/6/2000 Yankees vs A's. Down 1-0 in the 3rd, Jeter hits a go ahead 2 run single with his only hit of the game. Yankees went on to win 10/8/2000 Yankees vs A's. Jeter sparks 6 run rally with a walk and yankees win 7-5 10/11/2000 Yankees vs M's. 8th inning, Jeter hits 2 run homer during a Yankee 7 run rally to win the game 7-1. 10/14/2000 Yankees vs M's. 5th inning 0-0 game, Derek Jeter hits go ahead 3 run homer with his only hit of the game. Walks to lead off an 8th inning 2 run rally to put the game out of reach 10/17/2000 Yankees vs M's. 7th inning, yankees down 4-3, Jeter keeps an inning alive with a single to move Vizcaino to 3rd base. Jeter eventually scores the game winning run as the yankees win the series in 6 10/21/2000 Yankees vs Mets 6th inning, 0-0 game, Jeter walks to spark 2 run inning, yankees end up winning the game in extras... 10/22/2000 Yankees vs Mets 8th inning, Jeter hits a double and eventually scores the game winning run, yankees win 6-5... 10/24/2000 Yankees vs Mets 3rd inning, Jeter scores game tying run after singling. Yankees end up losing 4-2. 10/25/2000 Yankees vs Mets Jeter leads off game with HR. He also hits a triple in the 3rd inning and scored the eventual game winning run, yankees won 3-2. 10/26/2000 Yankees vs Mets. Yankees down 2-1 in the 6th inning and Jeter hits a game tying solo homer. Yankees win the series on a sojo single and Jeter had a 14 game world series hit streak to this point. Jeter was the WS MVP 10/13/2001 Yankees vs A's. THE PLAY, is all I have to say. Yankees down 2-0 in the series and Yankees up 1-0 in the game in the 7th inning and Jeter makes a ranging, out of position flip to Posada on a relay from an errant throw. Posada tagged Jeremy Giambi out at home barly with what would have been the game tying run. Yankees win 1-0 10/14/2001 Yankees vs A's. Jeter leads the 3rd inning off with a single and scores the eventual game winning run on his only hit of the game 10/15/2001 Yankees vs A's. Jeter drives in eventual game winning run on a sac fly. Yankees win 5-3 10/22/2001. Yankees vs M's, 0-0, 3rd inning, Jeter gets Yankees on the board with a sac fly and the yankees never looked back 10/31/2001. Yankees vs DBacks. Bot 10th, Jeter hits walkoff HR against BH Kim, yankees win 4-3 11/4/2001. Yankees vs DBacks, game 7. 7th inning, DBacks up 1-0. Jeter leads off wth a single and scores the tying run in his only hit of the game. Memory has erased what happened in that 9th inning.... 10/1/2002. Yankees vs Angels. Jeter leads off the 4th inning with a walk and scores the go ahead run. Same game, 8th inning, Jeter walks and scores winning run in the only game the yankees won in the 2002 postseason 10/9/2003 Yankees vs Red Sox. Jeter singles with only hit of the game and scores the eventual game winning run. 10/11/2003 Yankees vs Red Sox. Jeter homers to tie the game in the 3rd inning. 10/13/2003 Yankees vs Red Sox. Jeter doubles in a run to tie the game at 1 in the 5th inning. The red sox go on to win the game 10/16/2003 Yankees vs Red Sox game 7. In Jeter's only hit of the game off Pedro in the yankee 8th, he hit a one out double to spark a 3 run game tying rally. We all know how it ended. 10/21/2003 Yankees vs Marlins. Jeter scores 3 runs, game-tying run in the 4th after a one out double, the winning run in the 8th after a 1 out double, and an insurance run in the 9th after a HBP, yankees won 6-1. 10/23/2003 Yankees vs Marlins 9th inning. Down 6-3, Jeter hits a single with 0 outs and scores in a rally that is eventually thwarted by Urbina. 10/6/2004 Yankees vs Twins Jeter hits game tying HR in 1st inning. He also walked in the bottom of the 12th inning with the yankees down a run and eventually scored the game winning run on a line drive by Matsui that was thrown home, but Jeter beat the throw with a great slide to win the game 10/18/2004 Yankees vs Red Sox Jeter hits 3 run double in the top of the 6th inning in a 2-1 ball game off Pedro Martinez, it was his only hit of the game as he went 1 for 7 and the yankees lost in extras. 10/19/2004 Yankees vs Red Sox Yankees down 3, Jeter hits an RBI single setting up the arod bitch slap play which essentially ends the rally. 10/7/2005 Yankees vs Angels Jeter's RBI single and subsequent run scored spark a 4 run yankee inning bringing the game from 5-0 to 5-4. The yankees would take the lead in this game, but eventually lose. 10/9/2005 Yankees vs Angels. Tie game, 7th inning, Jeter hits a go-ahead and eventually the game winning groundout in an 0-4 performance, but the yankees won 3-2. 10/10/2005 Yankees vs Angels. Jeter hits sac fly in 2nd inning to put yankees ahead 2-0. He homers in the 7th inning to close the gap to 5-3 and he leads off the 9th with a single with the yankees down by 2. A-choke comes up next and GIDP and the rest is history....

I find it funny how the author decided to pull the line about Tejada making the same play as Jeter in the 2001 playoffs. Garbage, totally garbage. Tejada would have been at SS watching the throw sail in off line and late. Overall, though, the guy fails to really go into depth. He does make great points about how Jeter has averaged over the span of postseason successes and failures, but he fails to basically mention games where Jeter has had immense impact when he had the chance. Also, what he doesnt take into account is that Jeter is averaging his career average in the postseason, where you are efectively facing the best of the best team wise and pitching wise, so he isnt getting cheapies.

so Pujols is juicing but Manny and Ortiz havent?

if you guys want to go by best season, start with Gibson's 1.12 era...

nope, but we only pay him 14.6....

He is streaky in all phases of the game....

Pavano will be back soon. I hope he can actually pitch this yr...

I'm married. She'll have to go to coco's disciples....

yep, It seems as if Guidry and Torre have told him to forget about the baserunners and worry about your pitches. I dont care if they steal 7 bases, getting RJ back on track is much more important. He finishes his night strong and although his overall #s arent that great, he fought back and came through. I hope he builds off this, because for 5 innings he looked like the guy we have always wanted. Too bad for inning #1.... 6IP 8H 1BB 4K. That's how I know he is back. from 2nd inning on... 5IP 1ER 4H 3K 0BB. I hope he keeps it up. His next start is in Shea....

well, there goes my prediction, but I was close. Randy is tiring right now, time to get him out of there...