seabeachfred

Israel, I noticed when I suggested you don't insult or bother User you didn't get pissed off at me and think I was turning on you. Know why? Because it is based on trust. I don't want you insulting User as long as he doesn't insult you. I often wonder if he even knows he's being caustic and insulting with his terse comments. Maybe, maybe not. At any rate, we plod on, but I think those of us who still insist that we need pitching help are right and those who think not are wrong but we will not know until the season is well underway, and for both our sakes I hope THEY are right if we go with what we currently have. I do not want to endure another 2014 and neither do you or anyone else. A good recovering season and this board will for the most part be filled with happy people, but we all know that if we see another replica of 2014 this will not be the happiest place on earth.....and it shouldn't be.

If Owens dominates at Pawtucket and they bring him up, the thinking in the Red Sox front office is that this guy might just be the difference. I saw it out here in 2002 when the Angels brought up John Lackey and he turned out to be the difference between a second place team (in the AL West that season) and a club that went all the way to win the WS with Lackey winning Game 7. However, I keep hearing Owens may need another full year in AAA and if so we still will need a quality starter for the pennant drive. I would not trade for Hamels if the names Swihart or Betts are mentioned, but sooner or later even a stubborn dumb s*** like Amaro Jr. is going to have to face reality and know he doesn't have a ghost of a chance WITH Hamels and it's best be gets on with the rebuilding program. If our farm system is that good we ought to be able to beat what anyone else can offer the Phillies.

You're being a smart ass again mvp:o:D:eek: It isn't easy to do.....no one is arguing that it is, but it can be done. Read what I wrote your "blood brother". It has been done successfully before, and I'm going to assume that you've played a lot of ball and maybe even coached a little.. Pitchers may throw inside but it doesn't always go where they wanted it to do. Ever heard of an inside pitching drifting back over the plate. Know what happens when that occurs, or often occurs? Often a gopher ball. Hitters do have trouble going to the opposite field unless they work hard on it, but it can be done. Think back, third game of the 2004 ALDS....bottom of the 10th, 6-6 tie ( or was sit 7-7?) Runner on first, lefty Washburn on the mound for the Angels and Papi at bat. Inside fastball to where? Over the left field wall for a game winning homer. Remember that? Or, how about Game Five, 2004 ALCS, bottom of the eighth, down 4-2, Papi again up against righty ? Gordon pitching. Ortiz get that inside pitch and hits it to the banner on very top of the left field wall---then fights an inside pitch off his fist in the 14th to drop a single to center to win the game, meaning you don't have to hit the inside pitch to left, you can hit it to center as well. Thanks for your attention.

I never said it was easy but it CAN be done with hard work and help from their hitting coaches. And you don't have to be a smart ass and make a snide remark about me knowing better. Ever read a book by Wally Moon, assuming you remember who that guy was? He came to the LA Bums in 1959, a left handed hitter and took aim at the Coliseum screen 251 feet away. This guy hit only 238 the year before for the Cardinals before they got rid of him, but he took advantage of his ability to go to the opposite field where he had learned from his first St. Louis manager, Eddie Stanky. He wound up hitting a dozen balls over that screen, hit 19 homers, hit 302 and led the Bums to a WS Title. Another words it f***ING can be done because it has been done. You think Hank Aaron and Willy Mays pulled all their home runs? They had power to the opposite field when they loaded the right side against them. And yes, I do know something about it. I did coach baseball for 30 f***ING years, players ranging from 13 and t hen up into the high teens and 20's, and I did know how to teach....and for the f***ING record my teams in those 30 years won 87.4% of their f***ING games. So yes, while I'm not expert I know the f*** what I'm talking about. And for the record USER, just how much ball did you play, and how many years did you coach to question what I know or don't know?

Fine, as long as you don't use me as a stalking horse, there will be no problem....I told iortiz to get off your ass and leave things alone. As for me I have bent over backwards not to get my Italian up with you or anyone else. And FOM is out of line....please don't use it Do it as a rare favor to me. I find it very irritating.

Kimmi, if the team resembles the fighting 2013 team the game threads will be entertaining. If the team resembles the pathetic 2012 and 2014 teams it might do you good to fine some other entertainment during game threads. Let's hope for the former.

Just remember Kimmi.......the so-called FOM got it completely right in 2011. We correctly predicted that collapse that came because I was the first one who predicted it (July 26th--If they go into another slump they will go into the tank and the collapse will be complete.) They slumped and went into the tank, and only BoNY and Joe Brady admitted that we were right and your group was wrong. I didn't want to bring this up but since I was a so-called member of the FOM I don't take it kindly when you make it sound that the FOM (we called ourselves the Jacobins) didn't know the score. It was your group that stomped your feel and then took your marbles and started your own board, a pretty boring one at that with nothing but an echo chamber for atmosphere. I also take umbridge because it's a hit on my friends Muggah, IPOT, Pumpsie, Elk and a few others who knew the score all along. Now let's please hear no more of the FOM because I don't like to hear that. We're here now and what took place before should be put down the crapper. For the record, the Jacobins are now on the Bosox Board....and like this it's no echo chamber.

Lester may be done and gone, but that still doesn't alleviate our need for a top quality No. 1 type pitcher which right now do not anything resembling such an animal. There are some angry people from both camps already lighting up the board but I can almost guarantee things will get pretty nasty around here if we resemble the 2014 team this season. Personally, I think the idea of not pursuing a No. 1 type pitcher is a recipe for a potential disaster.

Hey, cut that s*** out User. There is not need to use such filthy language.....and I don't appreciate you using 700 Hitter and me as stalking horses. Iortiz is consistent in his belief that the Red Sox screwed up with Lester and that the current rotation as presently constructed is not a pennant winning one.....and not by a long shot. If I remember correctly, you said you would wait and see if they got that top No. 1 type pitcher and if not you would be heard. Was that some more nonsense because once again I get the impression that you are in full agreement with the front office's decision to go with this half-ass starting rotation we have. So which is it? We need a top notch starter or ok, I'm ok with what we have. Surprise us. As for you iortiz, you're my friend so please listen. Don't insult User either. You don't have to agree with him but let him have his opinions and respect them.

But probably bitching a hell of a lot less. Already we're seeing the revisionists coming out and saying how it was ok to let Lester leave, that we can get along without him, that our rotation is strong enough, and that the front office knew what they were doing......and that's fine it that's your opinion. It doesn't happen to be mine. I think letting Lester leave was a potential debacle that we could feel for the next three or four season since we have no one close in our rotation who matches him.. None have performed in big game and big series and big playoff situations the way Jon has. We might get along without him but we won't be better than if we had him. Our rotation might be strong enough if the AL East is weak this year and we can sneak in and win the division, but it not nearly of the caliber to take the team to a WS Title and probably not get us to the WS unless all the stars are aligned just right. I also do not feel the front office knew what they were doing with Lester at all. Anyone who thinks that paltry 4 year 70 million contract extension offer was a fair one is nuts in my opinion. It was an insulting offer, and Lucchino made it. Was he acting on his own meddling again or was he acting in concert with Henry. Then Henry going to visit Jon to try and talk him into coming back just before he signed with the Cubs. Did anyone really believe he was going to come back or maybe like some of us, we understood that he was pissed off at the FO and wanted out. Two people brought up a salient point. Maybe, just maybe, the team never really wanted to sign him long term, but I have news for Henry and Co. Don't expect another miracle like 2013. The team is going to have to be balls out and tough as nails to win anything this year, and, sorry to say, Masterson, Miley and Buchholz don't inspire all that much confidence in me. But let's see.

You know Spud, going to the opposite field does not mean going down the left field line. You can go to left center and still have a lot of room to deposit hits, and pitchers don't always have pinpoint control to keep the ball inside. Sometimes the harder they try to throw inside the more the ball angels towards the middle of the plate, and it you played ball I think you would recall some things along that order. No, it isn't always easy but it isn't as hard as some people here are making it out to be. Some of these hitters could learn to go to the opposite field inside outing the ball and some college coaches teach that as part of their learning program. Of course, they not coaching players who make millions and are making it because they don't hit singles to left field, but it can be done.

Whether they screwed up early or late with Lester is beside the point Kimmi.....THEY DID SCREW UP BADLY ON THAT AND THAT IS BEYOND ARGUMENT.

No Bellhorn, you're right on that. What I meant to convey is that when you sign those types of pitchers very little good is going to accrue from it. I hope that we fine two gems from the plethora of men we've signed this winter. I think in our case a good bullpen is going to be crucial to whatever success we have. Our starters just don't seem to have that much in the way of shutdown talent.

Simpatico on that one mvp. I do not have that much confidence in Mujica either. I've seem him melt down too many times with both us and the Cardinals. The only upside is that he did pitch fairly well at the end of the season, but by then the pressure was off and we dead on arrival.

Very true sk, but can we depend on the stars aligning that way again this season? Seems to me that beside the stars and some luck there will need to be some real solid pitching coming from our staff and that means both in the rotation and in the pen. It can be done---the question we will all wait with baited breath to see is if we do it.

Why stop there Ted.....Why not add to that august list these gems of dumpster dumpers. Bailey, Carpenter, Beato, Ohlendorf, Silva, Jenks, Wheeler, Hottovoy, and the immortal Boof Bonser. None have worked out and just about all of them caused harm to the team. This season we better have a solid bullpen because our starting rotation has a lot of questionmarks, and as our pal iortiz said, they s*** the bed the way they blew the Lester deal.

You're right, it was. The Red Sox had Vern "Buster" Stephens from 1948 through I believe early '52, and he was a slugger. I don't know how tall he was but he was built very powerfully.

The rest of the teams in the East can go take a dive....what does that mean to us? The Red Sox are the only team that counts, and, like you, that is the only team whose interest I'm concerned with.

And Spud, enough with this boot licker talk. You're not that at all. You're an optimist and right now I think we all should be thinking positive about the coming season.

Fred was a great talent, no question about it, but his departure from Boston impacted his career and he was never the same player again. He was also very injury and, unfortunately, a very slow healer. Lynn lived just two miles from me, went to El Monte High School and competed in the same Pacific League as my Arcadia did. He was the PL's Player in the League in 1970 and was a standout pitcher as well. He lost to Arcadia 1-0 the last league game giving Mark Keppel the title and El Monte second place. Permit me to boast just a trifle. That spring I was the Frosh-Soph baseball coach at Arcadia and we went 21-1, finishing right on top. It was first year coaching in my community. And I got married that summer too.

I responded to this question on another thread and I'm with you Israel. Yes, we could get by with what we currently have as our rotation if they all pitch to their ability and two or three of them have big seasons minus crippling injuries. However, I still believe we would be much better served with a quality No. 1 guy because can we really count on Buchholz to give us a full year of good pitching with his history of weird and long lasting and slow healing injuries? How will Miley fare coming from a weak hitting division into a very strong hitting league, and what about Masterson? Has he recovered his health and arm from that fraud we saw last season? A quality ace might alleviate a lot of worries. That being said, a solid performance from most of that rotation and we could win the AL East. After that, who knows?

I'm going to throw a potential bomb out there and see what kind of reaction I get. I believe the DH has been both a boon to the American League and a bigger boon to the Boston Red Sox. Take the latter for instance. My honest opinion is that without the DH we wouldn't have won those three WS we won because David Ortiz was the big difference in two of them and a key factor in the third. As for the former I think that after a decade or so of DH use, the American League started to catch up and pull ahead of the Senior Circuit. Since it took about 15 years to make that so that argument can be said to have some holes......the first one, though, I think stands solid

Ogden, Marty Marion could field like no one's business but had little in the way of hitting prowess. Banks had both until he started to slow down a little and the move was made to put Ernie on first base.

Here I'm trying to curb my temper and at least be willing to meet people both ways, but to co-moderate the board with you???? Eee ghads!!!!! Let's not go that far. Now if you and 700 Hitter want to undertake it, I give you my whole hearted support. My problem would come when the Red Sox go into a dive and I start having anger attacks. But I will endorse you and 700 if you're up to it----and I love that Friday suggestion. That would be a perfect out for those of us who want to rant and attack---as long as it meant nothing and no one took it personal when Friday ended and we returned to normal on Saturday.

On Bosox Board the other day I called out my friends there in a very friendly manner that now was the time to take a stand about our rotation......either come out now and say they are supportive of the rotation as presently constituted and no need to go for that No. 1 pitcher, or make it clear that we need that No. 1 guy. To me my friends, it is useless and ineffective to say after the fact that they should have gotten that ace or take credit that we didn't need such a pitcher when all you were before the season was neutral on the matter. Practicing what I am trying to preach I come out right now and say WE NEED THAT NO. 1 PITCHER, OR AT LEAST A SOLID NO. 2 TO ROUND OUT A ROTATION THAT COULD WIND UP HAVING MORE HOLES IN IT THAN SWISS CHEESE. If we win the division without getting that pitcher I will be elated and more than willing to eat some crow with a sell versed mea culpa. If this thing unravels with what we currently have at present and we find ourselves with another disappointing season, I will at least be deserving of raising some hell and ranting a little.