guapo34

It seems some people overeacted to his original comments. He never said he wanted to say, just that he wasn't going to be traded, which still might not be true. All this really changes is the fear that he won't show up to play if we don't trade him, which I don't think anyone really ever believed anyway. But would anyone really be surprised at anything Manny does at this point?

Theo is a pretty smart guy. If he felt we really screwed up the negotiations I don't think he'd come out and say, "Wow, they really screwed that one up. If i were still there We definately would have signed him AND at the price we wanted to pay."

I think the only way Marte gets traded, is if we end up with a solid SS and CF out of it, and I'd still rather see us keep him.

double post

But this reasoning makes no sense if they think Manny is better than Clement. Sure we'd have tejada and they'd have to face him 19 times a year, but they wouldn't have to face Manny 19 times a year, and we would. Manny has put up better offensive numbers than Tejada every year, and he's been far more consistent. We'd be idiots to offer more than Manny and Clement, except money. I understand Manny is overpaid, and Tejada is underpaid. However, because of deferals, Manny's AAV only comes out to about $17 million/yr for 3 years, so hes not as overpaid as most people think. Pujols and Guerreros contracts aren't really important in analyzing how much Manny is worth. Both are clearly underpaid. Pujols loves it in St. Louis, as most players who play there do, and took less than he would've gotten on the open market to stay there. Vlad, along with Tejada, signed in the worst off season market for players in a long time. Damon got $13 million/yr this offseason and I'd much rather have Manny. I don't think Manny would have any trouble getting a 3 year $45 million contract if he were a free agent. Factoring in position and defense, Manny and Tejada are pretty much a wash. Manny has put up a cumulative WARP of 21.4 over the last 3 years to Tejadas 22.1 WARP factors in defense and position played. In the words of Glen Ordway, you're making my point for me here. By saying Clement has more value staying here, your agreeing he is undervalued on the trade market. I'm not saying he should be highly sought after, and I understand Contreras had a better year last year, but i think both Clement is undervalued and Contreras is overvalued. Contreras is old, and has only had one good year. He's listed as 34 next year, but thats in question. If they want to build for 07/08 then hes pretty worthless if you ask me. Uribe is good, a little above average at SS, but not the kind of player you move Tejada for. I don't know much about the White Sox farm system, but i have a hard time believing the prospects are THAT good.

I don't get why we'd have to top chicagos offer by a significant margin though. If the orioles think they're getting the better deal from us, then they should want to trade with us because it would make us weeker, and them better. This logic that since we're in the division they need to get much more is rediculous. Also, how is Manny and Clement not MUCH better than Contreras, Uribe, and a couple prospects, especially since the prospect has not been reported to be brandon mccarthy? Contreras had half a good year and he is pretty old. He can't be much better than Clement. Manny has a huge edge over Uribe and a couple prospects.

Ellsbury got picked in front of Hansen because there were only 2 teams picking between our picks and it was pretty obvious neither would pay the price for Hansen but Ellsbury could've gone off the board and we wouldn't get both.

when krod blew those leads against the yankees he was severly overworked. If hansen turns out better than krod the red sox will be very lucky.

They asked about one, and that might have been after we asked about their top prospect. It would make sense for them to want one of ours if we end up with their top prospect who is an OF and would fill a hole in our farm system.

I dunno if its fair to say the O's are stupid for turning down the trade. There are 3 teams in the division that are better than them right now. They have some good young players. They'd win more games next year with Manny, but it doesn't do too much for their future. They should be looking for players like Brandon Mccarthy from the White Sox, Milledge from the Mets, or tell us to keep Manny and go after one of our top 3 with a couple other prospects. A deal with the Angels where they take Ocab along with a couple of their prospects would be good for them long term. If i were an O's fan, I'd rather see a deal like any of these than Manny.

Yeah, its definately Foulke's job to lose. If he struggles then it goes to whoever is pitching the best. That could be a lot of guys as riverside listed.

I don't think the Mets are giving up enough in that deal, and the Red Sox aren't getting enough. They should be shipping other prospects to the Rays, and we should get Heilman, Milledge, Baez, and Lugo. And we should only do that if we can swing Heilman and maybe a small prospect for someone like Abreau.

In a chat on boston.com today, Gammons hinted the Sox may not trade Wells. He points out Wells is 16-1 at fenway since 1998. If we can't get anything useful for him, i don't see any reason to tell him that and give him the option to pitch for the Sox or retire. That would give a rotation of: Schilling Beckett Wells Wakefield Clement with Pappelbon in the bullpen ready to move to the rotation if anyone gets hurt. It would also allow us to trade Arroyo, hopefully for a player like Reed. The only serious offer I can remember reported for Wells was Woody Williams and Dave Roberts from San Diego. Williams is pretty worthless, and Dave Roberts can't hit well enough to play center every day.

If they keep Manny, they don't need Tejada. If we trade Manny then Tejada is by far the best player we might be able to get. He's the best SS in baseball. And would come close to replacing Mannys production. Tejada and new LF could easily outproduce Manny and Alex Cora.

I don't think we're getting enough in that deal.

Well then we agree about the prospects. I think the lesser prospects have a little more value, and its possible we could spin arroyo and one of them for Reed. Just because they came out and said they wouldn't trade them unless they got Lester or Pappelbon doesn't mean its true.

I'm not saying i think we should get rid of them for nothing, but some people seem to think players like this aren't worth trading under any circumstances. I disagree.

I think theres a pretty good chance they already have something in place to replace Manny in left if this deal goes through. It could be signing Preston Wilson cuz they think he'd be better in left, or him in right with Nixon in left, and thats why they didn't go after him to play center, or a trade lined up for someone like Drew or Abreau. As for the bullpen, it seems we still have foulke, timlin, mota, seanez, hansen, dinardo, delcarmen, van buren, and the rule 5 guy as options there. Filling one of our holes may mean trading a good prospect, but i think they can get something done while keeping lester, pappelbon, and marte. Those are the only 3 I really don't want traded.

We don't really have an in house option at center field. Adam Stern? His defense looked excellent last year but he might be the worst regular hitter in baseball if he plays regularly.

While I doubt its true I hope it is. If Manny vetoes a trade it'd be a lot easier for us to not trade him. If they work out the money we end up with Tejada, which is by far the best rumored Manny deal so far.

Why do you assume just becuase you read in an article on MLB.com that he wouldn't trade milledge that its fact. He could've said it for many reasons. Maybe he felt he couldn't get a deal together and he wanted to make the Mets players look better than they are. He also said he wouldn't trade Heilman for Manny. Money aside, cuz theres other ways to work that out, if any GM in baseball wouldn't trade Heilman or Milledge to get Manny they should be fired.

The problem with Wang is he doesn't strike anybody out, and when pitchers put up seasons like he did last year without striking anyone out, they usually regress the next year. If hes close to that 3.64 era he put up last year I'll be shocked. You can say the same thing about Chacon.

Alright I exagerated a little. Huff isn't awful, but he isn't very good either. His ops dropped 104 points last year and 173 points from 2 years ago. 22 home runs, a .261 average, and .321 obp aren't very impressive. I think its more likely he does worse than his .749 ops from last year than better. Lugo hit better than Huff last year and is a SS. He's far more valuable.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Huff can't hit. If he replaces Manny in RF with tejada at short we'd be better off with Manny in left and alex cora at short. There is no way Huff can play center. We might as well sign Millar to do that.

Cliff Floyd has a limited no trade clause that includes Boston. He doesn't like it here and won't come back. If we could swing him and a prospect for Abreu then it would look a lot better. I know nothing about Bannister, but it would look a lot better milledge instead of him.