See Red

But if you hate the BCS and you don't really have a preference, you should be cheering for UCLA. If USC and Texas both win, the BCS works out this year. And CU won't even come close to knocking off Texas.

Yeah, that's prolly a pretty good summary of the officiating, Manny. But it was that one call that the Nuggets didn't get that killed them. Oh well.

Hate to say it, Manny Goes Boom, but my Nuggets just got screwed against your Suns. Camby gets that rebound with about 2:30 left in a 5 point game, and he goes down and there's no call, which leads to a Suns three pointer. That was a horrible no call. 'Melo gets 4(?) offensive fouls and they don't call that? Reminds me of the game last year where Earl Boykins got pulled down by Nash and they called a foul on Boykins. Now it's 4 points with 28 seconds left... we'll see what happens.

NFL Point Spreads For Week 13 Date & Time Favorite Spread Underdog 12/4 1:00 ET At Miami -4 Buffalo 12/4 1:00 ET At Pittsburgh -3 Cincinnati 12/4 1:00 ET At Baltimore -7.5 Houston 12/4 1:00 ET At Indianapolis -15 Tennessee 12/4 1:00 ET Jacksonville -3 At Cleveland 12/4 1:00 ET At NY Giants -3 Dallas 12/4 1:00 ET At Chicago -7 Green Bay 12/4 1:00 ET Minnesota -2.5 At Detroit 12/4 1:00 ET At Carolina -3 Atlanta 12/4 1:00 ET Tampa Bay -3.5 At New Orleans 12/4 4:05 ET Arizona -3 At San Francisco 12/4 4:05 ET Washington -3 At St. Louis 12/4 4:15 ET At New England -10 NY Jets 12/4 4:15 ET Denver -1 At Kansas City 12/4 8:35 ET At San Diego -11 Oakland Monday Night Football Point Spread 12/5 9:05 ET Seattle -3.5 At Philadelphia ... I think I'm going to do very poorly against the spread, this week. Not many games that I feel too sure about picking either way, this week. Without Spread : NFL 13 - Week Date & Time 12/4 1:00 ET At Miami............... Buffalo 12/4 1:00 ET At Pittsburgh......... Cincinnati 12/4 1:00 ET At Baltimore.......... Houston 12/4 1:00 ET At Indianapolis.......Tennessee 12/4 1:00 ET Jacksonville............At Cleveland 12/4 1:00 ET At NY Giants...........Dallas 12/4 1:00 ET At Chicago.............Green Bay 12/4 1:00 ET Minnesota..............At Detroit 12/4 1:00 ET At Carolina.............Atlanta 12/4 1:00 ET Tampa Bay.............At New Orleans 12/4 4:05 ET Arizona..................At San Francisco 12/4 4:05 ET Washington............At St. Louis 12/4 4:15 ET At New England......NY Jets 12/4 4:15 ET Denver..................At Kansas City 12/4 8:35 ET At San Diego..........Oakland Monday Night Football Point Spread 12/5 9:05 ET Seattle...................At Philadelphia I'll go with 43 for total points scored on MNF.

Is that any sort of justification? He's got as much right to say you shouldn't joke around about it as you have to joke around about it, no? I'm just saying don't make fun of people for sharing an opinion. He said don't do it -- that doesn't mean you don't have to do it, but having 4 or 5 people jump on him and bash him for it certainly doesn't help anything. I should add that I wouldn't even care if this was it... but this probably lead to the other thread, which will probably lead to future threads, etc. Jesus... why must people see the internet as a reason to mock and ridicule others? Of course you would be. You wouldn't have a computer screen to hide behind.

I'm not defending Michael Irvin or anyone, for that matter, in doing drugs. I'm also not saying it's wrong for you to laugh over it if you want. Frankly, I couldn't care less who laughs at Michael Irvin and who doesn't -- but Posednik was being made fun of for not finding it so funny and that, to me, is what ain't right.

Regardless, it's an addiction none-the-less. If it was easy to stop, it wouldn't be an addiction. Besides, hasn't he put his money towards helping other people with such problems?

The guy has an addiction, assuming the paraphanelia was his. If you think that's funny... more power to you. Others don't. And frankly, as one who, within the last month, has seen a good friend go to the hospital thanks to a drug overdose, I don't see the humor in it. I suggest any of you that see that as a reason to make fun of somebody for "not being able to take a joke" to grow up.

Not really sure if it would've been straight up. But the bulk of the trade would've been Nene for Redd. I remember reading about it last year. Kiki refused to give up Nene, which makes sense -- but for Redd? I'd do it in a second. I'm pretty sure Redd wanted to play here, too. I remember hearing how he loved playing under Karl in Milwaukee. Nene's a very good player when he's healthy. And he's young -- he's something of a hot commodity, actually. Kiki doesn't get ripped too often. I think most people don't understand that he would've drafted Darco if he had the chance over 'Melo and that the trade talks with Milwaukee ever took place. But occassionally, you'll get the fan who blasts Kiki. Though, to be honest, I listen more to National Radio... and Denver usually isn't talked about much in the National Radio landscape. Besides, in Denver, in terms of sports talk radio, the Broncos are always in season.

... don't make excuses. How many other QBs have I seen come back from 4 weeks off and played as good as they did before they left? How about Donovan McNabb in 2002, coming off of a broken leg and 6 weeks off? And let me rephrase, if I had to take a QB for one year, I'd take 10-15 QB's over Roethlisberger. Not many 25 year olds are as good as you seem to think Big Ben is... then again, not even he's as good as you think he is. I'm not impressed when he doesn't lose a regular season game in his first year when he has a top 5 NFL defense (see: best defense in the league), a top 5 NFL running game (see: second best in the league), and Hines Ward and Plaxico Burress to throw to in his first year. Teams that followed that recipe under Bill Cowher went to AFC Championship games with the likes of Neil O'Donnell and Kordell Stewart playing QB. Like I said, he didn't hold the Eagles to 3 points, and he didn't rush for 200 yards. But when his defense has struggled, the run game has been shut down, and he's had to make plays to win a football game... he hasn't done it. So forgive me for not bowing down before him until that's the case. Trent Dilfer's not an all-time great because he won the Super Bowl -- he even won something like 11 or 12 straight games that year. He also had the leagues best defense -- he also had one of the leagues top running games.

I didn't say Ben cost you the game. That first Colts offensive play didn't help. It could've been stopped by some fundamentals. Never take your eyes off the WR when you're playing man coverage without support from the safety. That's obvious. I'm saying Ben was awful, and missed some passes which could've gotten you back into the game. There's a good 10-15 QB's I'd take over Roethlisberger, if I was building a team and age wasn't a factor.

Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl... is he among the best QB's ever? Roethlisberger beat all those teams? Roethlisberger beat two undefeated teams in a row? Did he play the ironman role, strap on the helmet for defense, and hold the Eagles to 3 points? Did he rush the ball for almost 200 yards against the Pats? And just out of curiosity, what happened to Big Ben's numbers when the Pats held the running game in check? Those 3 INT's are, probably, the reason they lost that game. 4 weeks out is no excuse for throwing to a checkdown WR for a 5 yard game when you have all the time in the world on 3rd and 10. Face it -- you'll never see this from an unbiased standpoint because your colors are black and gold. I have nothing against the Steelers. I wanted them to win -- I wanted them to beat the Pats this year and in the playoffs last year.

Yeah, 17-26 isn't so great for only 133 yards. He had a chance to make a real game of it, but he missed Ward high and wide inside the twenty. Ben just looked bad to me -- no matter what the statistics would say. Then again, I've said he's overrated since day one. I remember one occassion on their 1st or 2nd drive, it's a 3rd and 10, maybe, and the Colts rush only 4. Ben reacts as though it's an all-out blitz and dumps it off to his check-down reciever, whom I think was either a fullback or TE on a little 3 yard route. Keep in mind, the Colts didn't even show blitz. Roethlisberger can't beat you. The Patriots and Colts have realized this, and have dedicated themselves completely towards shutting down the run.

I don't know. I find myself believing Michael Irvin in this particular instance.

True -- but that was before we traded for K-Mart. We would've had Camby and Amare downlow, and, I think, 3 or 4 first round draft picks, last year to trade for a SG. And yes, I very much hate Kiki for that. Everytime his name comes up for a different job... I pray he takes it.

Riverdance. But for what it's worth, none of his celebrations are in the same league as T.O.'s "Dallas Star" or "Sharpie" celebrations.

As far as the Tom Brady conversation goes, he's, without a doubt, a Hall of Famer and one of the best QB's in the league. But I also get annoyed at the excuse making -- not saying anyone on this board is guilty of it, but in the national media, they are. Listening to sports talk radio and hearing a summary of the game, I hear "And Tom Brady tied a career high with 4 interceptions..." and then that guy gets cut off by "... but 3 of them were tipped passes, so they weren't his fault." Hmm... funny, I didn't hear people making excuses for Jake Plummer last year when a lot of his passes were tipped INT's, too.

Yeah, I said San Diego, Cincinatti or Pittsburgh because either Cinci or Pittsburgh will be a wild card team, and San Diego will be too as I don't think they have much of a chance in the AFC West behind the Broncos. Jacksonville seemed like a likely choice, but then Leftwich went down for atleast a month.

8-8, 10-6... either way, it's good enough to make the playoffs. I think 9-7 with a first round loss to San Diego, Pittsburgh, or Cincinnatti is most likely. Interesting how one of the strongest divisions before the season started turned out to be one of the weakest in the league.

You have no idea how much I hate Earl Boykins -- he hurts the team with his dribbling for 20 seconds. I'd much rather see Earl Watson get playing time. I'm telling you, I hate Kiki for not having traded Nene. I want Kiki gone because he's as overrated as Voshon Lenard is. Let's not forget, Kiki picked Skita that year... is he still in the league, even?

Notre Dame lost to USC at home on the final play of the game, and one that is very controversial. Oregon lost to USC at home 45-13. It's a vast minority that argues that Oregon is a better team than Notre Dame -- and there's a reason for it. That MSU team, at the time, was playing some of the best football in the country, and were thought to be the frontrunners to win the Big Ten. Keep in mind that people also tend to favor teams that go out and schedule tougher opponents. Nobody, on a yearly basis, goes out and schedules tougher teams than Notre Dame.

Pretty ballsy pick. My pick is UConn, though, to be fair, I say that wearing my UConn hoodie.

Thanks. One of my favorite commercials -- it's just very nicely done. That whole 'B More' slogan is kind of clever when you think about it, being that he came from a bad neighborhood in Baltimore. I'm not crazy about the shoe either... his last ones were some of my favorite shoes ever. I do, however, want that hoodie he's wearing in the commercial with the Melo logo on the hood of it.

I thought Camby should've won it last year. I agree about Vo, and the SG position in general, but I think Dermarr Johnson and Greg Buckner are a little underrated. Buckner's a very good defensive player, and Dermarr shot well above 40% for 3-pointers post all-star break of last year. I want a new GM, actually. Kiki gets way too much credit for the turn around. He wanted to draft Darco over Melo. And we could've had Michael Redd last year had Kiki been willing to give up Nene, which he seemed willing to do to get Paul Pierce.

Yeah, they look real nice... but the Nuggets colors are light blue, royal blue, and yellow -- so that dark, dark blue used on those jerseys looks wrong on them, especially considering their court has a lot of royal blue. I tuned into the game, and it just didn't look like the Nuggets.