Best AL offense Vs. Best NL defense on NL turf

[redsoxbeatz]

I can't help but constantly think about our Phillies 3-game set coming up.

 

I was looking at ESPN statistics and Phillies are 1st in ERA(3.04) and Quality Starts(47), 2nd WHIP(1.19) and 6th BAA(.243). Boston is 1st in Runs(369), BA(.274), On Base(.347) and 2nd Slugging(.445)

 

It looks as if it will be Beckett-Lackey-Lester vs. (maybe) Lee-Oswalt-Worley

 

Our bats seem to get pretty cold vs. good pitching but when they got hot in a game they stay hot (like today vs Brewers.) Crawford won't be there but hopefully Reddick will fill in and McDonald & Sutton will sit.

 

So, what do you guys think? How we going to handle the Best NL team & Pitching on NL turf? Who sits more often, Ortiz or Gonzo? I almost wish interleague didn't count or didn't exist but this will be good prep for possible WS match-up. Discuss?

[Jwmann2]

InterLeague is great, bro! You get to see teams that you have never seen before. I get to see the Yankees on Wednesday in Cincinnati for the first time! While you could certainly care less about the Yankees, I dont think the Phillies have enough offensive firepower or run support for their pitching. It is pretty scary to think of Cole Hamels and Blanton coming out of the bullpen in the playoffs...

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

The Phillies offense isn't as weak as you're making it out to be. I know they lost Werth but they have a pretty solid offensive team.

[redsoxbeatz]

Phillies average 4.15 runs per game this season. Sox are at 5.27

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Besides pitching wins championships and right now the Phillies have the upper hand IN PITCHING...

[redsoxbeatz]

Besides pitching wins championships and right now the Phillies have the upper hand.

 

Yeah. That's my worry

 

I'd like to see Beckett vs. Lee, though. But w/ Beckett batting...that sucks...

[Emmz]

Besides pitching wins championships and right now the Phillies have the upper hand.

 

Everyone everywhere needs to like seriously stop with these cliches like defense wins championships.

 

And yes, the Phillies do have a good offense, a very good offense with all of their players 100% actually.

 

The Phillies don't have an upper hand or any of that crap, they're the most complete team in the majors, but I don't see how they have the upper hand at this point, they're two powerhouse teams that should make for a good matchup.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

It's the truth Emmz. Bad pitching will get you no where.

 

Sure the Sox are a good team and can compete with the Phillies but if you deny that the Phillies don't have the upper hand in pitching you're being a homer.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

That whole pitching and defense wins championships stuff is overused and pretty irrelevant nowadays. 2004's team basically won on out-slugging everyone else, and their pitching and defense weren't all that great. I wouldn't say Philly would have the upper hand in a series against the sox. The Red Sox pitching staff is also pretty good at full health, and their stats are dragged down by a bad start. The Sox offense can beat any pitcher thrown at them. I don't remember the stats exactly but over the last year or so they've beaten tons of Cy Young winners and top of the line starters like it was nothing.

[Emmz]

It's the truth Emmz. Bad pitching will get you no where.

 

Sure the Sox are a good team and can compete with the Phillies but if you deny that the Phillies don't have the upper hand in pitching you're being a homer.

 

Totally just put words into my mouth, you said they had the upper hand, not the upper hand in pitching. Stick to what you said please.

 

And I did not say anything about bad pitching, I don't know where you got that, but a bad offense will get you nowhere as well. All I said was that it's a cliche to say that stuff, nothing more, nothing less.

[Emmz]

That whole pitching and defense wins championships stuff is overused and pretty irrelevant nowadays. 2004's team basically won on out-slugging everyone else' date=' and their pitching and defense weren't all that great. I wouldn't say Philly would have the upper hand in a series against the sox. The Red Sox pitching staff is also pretty good at full health, and their stats are dragged down by a bad start. The Sox offense can beat any pitcher thrown at them. I don't remember the stats exactly but over the last year or so they've beaten tons of Cy Young winners and top of the line starters like it was nothing.[/quote']

 

Mhm, cliche. You really just need an ace and a number two guy, with a solid middle of the rotation with that (which is what we have) you just need a good offense. This is not a good offense, this is an extremely overpowering offense.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Totally just put words into my mouth, you said they had the upper hand, not the upper hand in pitching. Stick to what you said please.

 

And I did not say anything about bad pitching, I don't know where you got that, but a bad offense will get you nowhere as well. All I said was that it's a cliche to say that stuff, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Besides pitching wins championships and right now the Phillies have the upper hand.

 

I was clearly refering to pitching in my post. I said pitching will get you championships and said the Phillies have the upper hand(which they do). It was pretty clear what I said.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

That whole pitching and defense wins championships stuff is overused and pretty irrelevant nowadays. 2004's team basically won on out-slugging everyone else' date=' and their pitching and defense weren't all that great. I wouldn't say Philly would have the upper hand in a series against the sox. The Red Sox pitching staff is also pretty good at full health, and their stats are dragged down by a bad start. The Sox offense can beat any pitcher thrown at them. I don't remember the stats exactly but over the last year or so they've beaten tons of Cy Young winners and top of the line starters like it was nothing.[/quote']

 

I think the Sox can beat the Phillies with their offense. I don't want to make it seem like the Phillies rotation is invisible because they aren't. I just think pitching is much more valuable to winning than offense. Sure you can't win if you don't score but you don't win so much if your pitcher gets pounded. We have a solid rotation and a solid bullpen. Can we beat them? Sure, but that still doesn't change my mind about the Phillies having better pitching.

[Emmz]

I was clearly refering to pitching in my post. I said pitching will get you championships and said the Phillies have the upper hand(which they do). It was pretty clear what I said.

 

You said the Phillies had the upper hand, you did not say they had the upper hand in pitching. To me, it's more "clear" that you were trying to say the Phillies had the upper hand overall. It's not really a big deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

That whole pitching and defense wins championships stuff is overused and pretty irrelevant nowadays. 2004's team basically won on out-slugging everyone else' date=' and their pitching and defense weren't all that great. I wouldn't say Philly would have the upper hand in a series against the sox. The Red Sox pitching staff is also pretty good at full health, and their stats are dragged down by a bad start. The Sox offense can beat any pitcher thrown at them. I don't remember the stats exactly but over the last year or so they've beaten tons of Cy Young winners and top of the line starters like it was nothing.[/quote']

 

Wow, you really don't remember your own team, do you? In 2004, Theo dealt away Nomar for Cabrera and Minky. Your rotation was topped by 2 aces and for the playoffs, Lowe pitched way over his head. The sox were put in the 0-3 hole by shoddy pitching, they came out of it with solid pitching performances and timely hitting. Through the first 3 games in the 2004 ALCS, the sox allowed 31 runs. The last 4 games, they allowed 13 runs in 44IP, for a 2.65 ERA

[SoxFanForsyth]

Our typical line up of Ells - Pedey - Gonzo - Youk - McDonald - Scutaro - Cam - Salty - Pitcher has a career .345 average against Cliff Lee. Included in that is Adrian Gonzalez, who has absolutely owned Lee (7 for 10 against him).

 

Against Oswalt, we've only got 3 guys on our roster that have faced him (Drew, Cam, and Gonzo), and they are a combined 20 for 65 against him (.308).

 

Worley is a rookie, so we don't have anyone who has faced him.

 

Regardless, I'll pair up Beckett vs Lee all day. Lackey vs Oswalt, they have an edge, although I could see our offense busting that game open. And Lester vs Worley, that's Lester all day unless we have that mysterious spell cast on our offense by rookies again.

[Palodios]

It is baseball, you never know what will happen. Look at what the Sox did to Marcum/Gallardo-- part of the second strongest rotation in the NL.

[redsoxbeatz]

Our typical line up of Ells - Pedey - Gonzo - Youk - McDonald - Scutaro - Cam - Salty - Pitcher has a career .345 average against Cliff Lee. Included in that is Adrian Gonzalez, who has absolutely owned Lee (7 for 10 against him).

 

Against Oswalt, we've only got 3 guys on our roster that have faced him (Drew, Cam, and Gonzo), and they are a combined 20 for 65 against him (.308).

 

Worley is a rookie, so we don't have anyone who has faced him.

 

Regardless, I'll pair up Beckett vs Lee all day. Lackey vs Oswalt, they have an edge, although I could see our offense busting that game open. And Lester vs Worley, that's Lester all day unless we have that mysterious spell cast on our offense by rookies again.

 

Can we drop McDonald or Cam for Reddick please? Though I understand you're just showing the avg. that lineup has vs. Lee. Reddick is performing fantastically right now. Makes me wonder if he'll be involved in a trade. Too bad we can't see anything of Kalish. How is he recovering from his injury, anyone know??

[redsoxbeatz]

To join the discussion of Best Pitching (i.e., best defense) wins championships: it is legit, cliche or not... though of course not 100%

Giants pitching beat Rangers. And if we look at football, the #1 defense of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers beat the #1 offense of the Oakland Raiders in SB XXXVII 48-24 in 2003. But thats prob neither here nor there, i'm just anxious for football season, too!

 

LETS SWEEP THE PHILLIES!!!

[Will617]

Wow' date=' you really don't remember your own team, do you? In 2004, Theo dealt away Nomar for Cabrera and Minky. Your rotation was topped by 2 aces and for the playoffs, Lowe pitched way over his head. The sox were put in the 0-3 hole by shoddy pitching, they came out of it with solid pitching performances and timely hitting. Through the first 3 games in the 2004 ALCS, the sox allowed 31 runs. The last 4 games, they allowed 13 runs in 44IP, for a 2.65 ERA[/quote']

 

Boston was tops in the AL in runs scored by a very wide margin (they scored 5.86 runs/game, compared to the league average of 5.01). They were fourth in "defense" (they allowed 4.74 runs/game, compared to the league average of 4.99). So, I'm not really sure what you're remembering. Getting good performances for 4 games clearly isn't indicative of overall talent.

[Will617]

Where's this great offense of the Phillies everyone's talking about? They're just about league average in the NL. Of course, they missed Utley for awhile, but it's not like they have a ton of great hitting talent besides him, and Victorino's having a career year which helped make up for it.

Reddick's performance is probably due to small sample size, but I'd like to see him get another shot. Problem is I think he's a better left-handed hitter than he is right-handed, so he wouldn't see much playing time when Crawford gets back.

Kalish is going to be playing in the minors before the end of the month, is what I remember hearing.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You said the Phillies had the upper hand' date=' you did not say they had the upper hand in pitching. To me, it's more "clear" that you were trying to say the Phillies had the upper hand overall. It's not really a big deal.[/quote']

 

It wasn't my intention to say the Phillies have the upper hand. I didn't think I have to say "The Phillies have the upper hand in pitching" after a statement saying "pitching wins championships".

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Boston was tops in the AL in runs scored by a very wide margin (they scored 5.86 runs/game' date=' compared to the league average of 5.01). They were fourth in "defense" (they allowed 4.74 runs/game, compared to the league average of 4.99). So, I'm not really sure what you're remembering. Getting good performances for 4 games clearly isn't indicative of overall talent.[/quote']

 

This. Thank you.

 

"wow, you don't remember your own team" Yeah, sure buddy.