Harden to Red Sox?

[BSN07]

Next year' date=' Tazawa will not be ready for a MLB SP role. That's why they need a 5th starter in the first place.[/quote']

 

^ Exactly

 

That and Bowden will be traded IMO in some deal this off season:D

 

The Sox need to add some depth. I actually think they sign Bedard and 1 other pitcher, Harden, Dusch or whomever. If they trade Bowden, Tazawa is the only SP that's close to being ready(and he isn't really). Behind those two I don't see anyone else who could come up and be ready for the ML.

 

The Sox are well known for their shoulder program. I mean look at Penny this year. A guy that was sitting low 90's when he got hurt, was consistently in the upper 90's this year. And could have been good if he had anything other then a upper 90's FB. Bedard does. I really think they could bring him back to form. Given a full off season + a couple months(I've heard he's supposed to be able to pitch by June:dunno:) of the shoulder program the Sox have. He could be a huge second half boost. He would also provide nice insurance for the other SP they would sign in this theory of mine.

[Dojji]

Behind those two I don't see anyone else who could come up and be ready for the ML.

 

Felix Doubront is pretty close. If they really had to, they wouldn't be insane to call him up and give him a shot at midseason.

 

But yeah, I agree with your overall point.

[Dipre]

^ Exactly

 

That and Bowden will be traded IMO in some deal this off season:D

 

The Sox need to add some depth. I actually think they sign Bedard and 1 other pitcher, Harden, Dusch or whomever. If they trade Bowden, Tazawa is the only SP that's close to being ready(and he isn't really). Behind those two I don't see anyone else who could come up and be ready for the ML.

 

The Sox are well known for their shoulder program. I mean look at Penny this year. A guy that was sitting low 90's when he got hurt, was consistently in the upper 90's this year. And could have been good if he had anything other then a upper 90's FB. Bedard does. I really think they could bring him back to form. Given a full off season + a couple months(I've heard he's supposed to be able to pitch by June:dunno:) of the shoulder program the Sox have. He could be a huge second half boost. He would also provide nice insurance for the other SP they would sign in this theory of mine.

 

The problem is, why would you sign a hurt pitcher to provide a "second half boost" when you can sign two pitchers who are actually healthy?

 

That's my only gripe.

[Dojji]

The problem is, why would you sign a hurt pitcher to provide a "second half boost" when you can sign two pitchers who are actually healthy?

 

That's my only gripe.

 

I don't think a flier on Bedard limits other options very much. The worst he does is take up a spot on the 40-man, and that only if they can't put him on the 60 day DL.

[Dipre]

I don't think a flier on Bedard limits other options very much. The worst he does is take up a spot on the 40-man' date=' and that only if they can't put him on the 60 day DL.[/quote']

 

It's not about limiting options.

 

It's going after an individual who you're sure can contribute to the big club.

[Dojji]

It's not about limiting options.

 

It's going after an individual who you're sure can contribute to the big club.

 

OK, but then we have to get back to the point where I'm a tad nervous about Harden's performance in the NL Central. The guy gave up a lot of HR's for a 150 inning pitcher and a 1.34 WHIP is only OK. I know he got better as the season went on but a 4 ERA in that division makes me nervous and I'd love to have a reason why it's a fluke.

[Dipre]

OK' date=' but then we have to get back to the point where I'm a tad nervous about Harden's performance in the NL Central. The guy gave up a lot of HR's for a 150 inning pitcher and a 1.34 WHIP is only OK. I know he got better as the season went on but a 4 ERA in that division makes me nervous and I'd love to have a reason why it's a fluke.[/quote']

 

.304 BABIP, 4.22 BB/9, Wrigley Field.

[Dojji]

.304 BABIP' date=' 4.22 BB/9, Wrigley Field.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure the bb/9 qualifies as a reassurance in that situation since Harden's command is sorta borderline, but I'll take the other two.

[BSN07]

The problem is, why would you sign a hurt pitcher to provide a "second half boost" when you can sign two pitchers who are actually healthy?

 

That's my only gripe.

 

Which is a fair gripe.

 

I'm saying you sign Bedard for the 2nd half. Just like if you traded for a SP(which in most seasons you look to do) for the stretch run.

 

You obviously sign someone that helps the team at the beginning of the season as well. I'm not proposing they get Bedard and no one else.

[Dipre]

I'm not sure the bb/9 qualifies as a reassurance in that situation since Harden's command is sorta borderline' date=' but I'll take the other two.[/quote']

 

He's always had a high career BB/9, but if you examine his game log, you'll see he was giving an inordinate amount of BB/s early in the season, but that began to correct itself near the end, and a .50 increase in BB/9 over his previous 3 season with more than 100 IP screams "Fluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuke" at the top of its lungs.

[Dipre]

Which is a fair gripe.

 

I'm saying you sign Bedard for the 2nd half. Just like if you traded for a SP(which in most seasons you look to do) for the stretch run.

 

You obviously sign someone that helps the team at the beginning of the season as well. I'm not proposing they get Bedard and no one else.

 

I propose no Bedard.

 

A torn labrum is serious business. Different pitchers respond differently to rehab, but in most of the cases, a pitcher will never fully return to his former self after suffering one. Not to mention variations on recovery time.

 

I don't want to bank on someone (even if only for the 2nd half) whose recovery time can not be estimated, and who's likely to have diminished stuff and stamina.

[Spudboy]

I think it's ridiculous to continue the practice of signing injured players, especially pitchers.

 

Step up and pay the money for healthy, productive players that are likely to contribute for the entire season. There is no reason to waste money, or any other resource on defective goods. A $5.mil injured pitcher is not a loaf of day old bread.

 

Here are some options from Cotts:

 

 

Brandon Backe HOU

Miguel Batista SEA

Josh Beckett * BOS

Erik Bedard SEA (

Daniel Cabrera ARZ

Bartolo Colon CWS

Jose Contreras COL

Doug Davis ARZ (

Justin Duchscherer OAK (

Adam Eaton COL

Kelvim Escobar LAA

Jon Garland * LAD (

Tom Glavine ATL

Mike Hampton HOU

Rich Harden CHC (A)

Tim Hudson * ATL

Randy Johnson SF (

John Lackey LAA (A)

Cliff Lee * PHI (A)

Braden Looper * MIL (

Jason Marquis COL (

Kevin Millwood * TEX

Brett Myers PHI

Vicente Padilla * LAD (

Carl Pavano MIN

Brad Penny SF

Odalis Perez WAS

Andy Pettitte NYY (

Joel Pineiro STL (

Sidney Ponson KC

Jason Schmidt LAD

John Smoltz STL

Tim Wakefield BOS (

Jarrod Washburn DET

Brandon Webb * ARZ (

Todd Wellemeyer STL (

Randy Wolf (A)

 

 

Please disregard the smileys.

 

I don't know how they got there!

[Dojji]

They got there because anyone with a smiley on him is a type B free agent, denoted by (B), which BBCode turns into the sunglasses smiley ("B)")

 

And quite honestly? Assuming most of the players with options get those options picked up the list of healthy effective sure thing starters from that selection begins and ends with John Lackey.

 

Meaning if we go for a free agent, our choices are "healthy but ineffective" or "unhealthy but effective."

 

Given the choice, I'd rather gamble that an unhealthy player has a good year than that a player that consistently sucks suddenly doesn't.

[Dipre]

They got there because anyone with a smiley on him is a type B free agent' date=' denoted by (B), which BBCode turns into the sunglasses smiley ("B)")

 

And quite honestly? Assuming most of the players with options get those options picked up the list of healthy effective sure thing starters from that selection begins and ends with John Lackey.

 

Meaning if we go for a free agent, our choices are "healthy but ineffective" or "unhealthy but effective."

 

Given the choice, I'd rather gamble that an unhealthy player has a good year than that a player that consistently sucks suddenly doesn't.

 

Really?

 

Because what we need is someone who can eat innings.

 

Unhealthy pitchers can't eat innings.

 

/enddiscussion.

[Dojji]

Well, assuming you weren't being sarcastic again Mr. I-Want-Rich-Harden, your choice of half decent innings eaters seems to be Jose Contreras, Brett Myers, or Jarrod Washburn.

 

Actually, Washburn might be interesting. He would at least be a competent #5 I think. Since that's all we really need I'm not sure I should rule it out.

[Dipre]

Well, assuming you weren't being sarcastic again Mr. I-Want-Rich-Harden, your choice of half decent innings eaters seems to be Jose Contreras, Brett Myers, or Jarrod Washburn.

 

Actually, Washburn might be interesting. He would at least be a competent #5 I think. Since that's all we really need I'm not sure I should rule it out.

 

I wasn't being sarcastic.

 

I was actually thinking of a Harden/(Myers-Washburn) twosome.

[Dojji]

Washburn then. I don't want Brett Myers anywhere near the city of Boston ever again.

 

I'm sure you understand.

[Dipre]

Washburn then. I don't want Brett Myers anywhere near the city of Boston ever again.

 

I'm sure you understand.

 

Ah yes, the wife-beating incident.

[Dojji]

Well, that and he's flat out mediocre in the NL East and Washburn is at least an American League pitcher.

[Dipre]

Well' date=' that and he's flat out mediocre in the NL East and Washburn is at least an American League pitcher.[/quote']

 

Only problem with him being flyball tendencies.

[Dojji]

Which is not a small problem if you're going to be pitching in Fenway.

 

Anywho one problem with getting both Washburn and Harden is that it comes back to my original point about already having 4 quality SP's. I don't think either Washburn or Harden is going to be happy about going to the bullpen and I can't see this team going through with a six man rotation just to slake the ego of their #5 starter.

[Dipre]

Which is not a small problem if you're going to be pitching in Fenway.

 

Anywho one problem with getting both Washburn and Harden is that it comes back to my original point about already having 4 quality SP's. I don't think either Washburn or Harden is going to be happy about going to the bullpen and I can't see this team going through with a six man rotation just to slake the ego of their #5 starter.

 

Then sign one healthy pitcher for the 5 spot with the backup being at AA/AAA.

 

Emphasis on HEALTHY.

[RWTP24]

Come on, we do not need Harden. We have Tazawa.

[Jacobysgirl729]

I think I might like Bedard better than Harden.

 

Yeah me too!

[Paradisecity]

Then sign one healthy pitcher for the 5 spot with the backup being at AA/AAA.

 

Emphasis on HEALTHY.

 

I think this is the call, and I think and hope this is what happens.

 

Lets remember that everyone in the media was lauding the sox FO for the Smoltz/Penny experiment, but we all watched that fall apart very very quickly. I think the FO will have that on their minds when they are evaluating this season's Free Agent Market.

[Dipre]

I think this is the call, and I think and hope this is what happens.

 

Lets remember that everyone in the media was lauding the sox FO for the Smoltz/Penny experiment, but we all watched that fall apart very very quickly. I think the FO will have that on their minds when they are evaluating this season's Free Agent Market.

 

This.

 

There are enough healthy options to help us avoid another injured pitcher experiment.

[BSN07]

Harden/Bedard > Penny/Smoltz

 

 

Just because Penny and Smoltz didn't work out, it shouldn't discourage them from trying similar moves.

[Dipre]

Harden/Bedard > Penny/Smoltz

 

 

Just because Penny and Smoltz didn't work out, it shouldn't discourage them from trying similar moves.

 

Do you know the implications of a torn labrum?

 

Seriously?

 

Again, betting on damaged goods is not a good idea, and this year is a textbook example of it, not to mention the fact that both Penny and Smoltz had injuries that could be considered minor compared to Bedard's.

 

Stop it.

[jacksonianmarch]

What do you guys think of Jose Reyes?

[Emmz]

Why is Bedard even still being mentioned? He has a torn labrum, and he wouldn't even be available until sometime later into the next season. Not to mention it could, and probably will, have a dramatic effect on his performance. Again, even without that torn labrum, I'd still consider Harden slightly favored ahead of Bedard, but that's irrelevant at this point.