2008 Boston Celtics Playoff Game thread

[Mr Crunchy]

THE SONG IS OVER

ITS ALL BEHIND ME

 

too bad,they made a nice comeback only to fail when it mattered

detroit made every shot that mattered in the last 2 minutes and we couldnt get a rebound if our lives were depending on it.

[rician blast]

Rebounding is a matter of balls and determination...the gutsier, more determined team won last night. Couldn't help but think it's all over immediately after the game. I'll hold off on predicting what seems inevitable.

[Mr Crunchy]

they had the best road record in the league

if they win 1 in detroit then they got a pop

they dont play well offensively or defensively on the road so far this playoff season

[TheKilo]

Ray Allen is ALIVE!

 

If the Celtics win Game 3 they are sitting pretty, IMO.

[See Red]

Ray Allen is ALIVE!

 

If the Celtics win Game 3 they are sitting pretty, IMO.

 

So is Rasheed's shooting touch, though.

 

I'm not convinced the Celtics can win on the road. If they can't do it in Cleveland or Atlanta how do they do it in Detroit? They just don't have what it takes... hell, even Bill Simmons admits that KG isn't wired like a winner.

 

edit: By the way, nobody is beating the Lakers.

[YanksHater213]

The rest of this series is going to be interesting as hell to say the least.

[MANNYHOF24]

So is Rasheed's shooting touch, though.

 

I'm not convinced the Celtics can win on the road. If they can't do it in Cleveland or Atlanta how do they do it in Detroit? They just don't have what it takes... hell, even Bill Simmons admits that KG isn't wired like a winner.

 

edit: By the way, nobody is beating the Lakers.

 

The only reason KG hasn't won is because he has been on s*****, s***** teams. The one year they had an O.K. supporting cast they made it to the western confrenence finals.

 

 

By the way, the celtics had the best road record in the league this year. I think going up 2-0 gave them a huge false sense of security causing them not to be as sharp as the should be. I expect a great performance tonight, and a comfortable celtic win.

[MANNYHOF24]

BS call, Garnett to the bench with 2 fouls.

[See Red]

The only reason KG hasn't won is because he has been on s*****, s***** teams. The one year they had an O.K. supporting cast they made it to the western confrenence finals.

 

 

By the way, the celtics had the best road record in the league this year. I think going up 2-0 gave them a huge false sense of security causing them not to be as sharp as the should be. I expect a great performance tonight, and a comfortable celtic win.

 

It's not that he hadn't won... it's that he hadn't gotten out of the first round with that one season aside. By the way, it wasn't just an "okay" supporting cast... Cassell and Sprewell were a great supporting cast.

 

Watch a Lakers game. Kobe takes over -- he took over game one and willed his team to victory. Garnett's great and has had some great games in this postseason but I've never in his career seen him just take over in the postseason.

 

And there's a difference between playing on the road in the regular season and doing it in the playoffs -- I don't know how you can believe otherwise at this point.

[MANNYHOF24]

I love how even after winning 66 games and being tied 1-1 in the eastern conference finals, the celtics get no respect whatsoever. I guess that will make it more sweet if we win it all.

[See Red]

I love how even after winning 66 games and being tied 1-1 in the eastern conference finals' date=' the celtics get no respect whatsoever. I guess that will make it more sweet if we win it all.[/quote']

 

It's not a lack of respect. You're 0-6 on the road in the postseason and have two guys that have ever won anything on the team. Pierce? Career loser. Ray Allen? Career loser (barely even beat Denzel at the end of He Got Game :harhar: ). Garnett? Career loser.

 

I don't think those two facts are unrelated.

 

By the way, Ray Allen doesn't look so hot so far.

[MANNYHOF24]

It's not a lack of respect. You're 0-6 on the road in the postseason and have two guys that have ever won anything on the team. Pierce? Career loser. Ray Allen? Career loser (barely even beat Denzel at the end of He Got Game :harhar: ). Garnett? Career loser.

 

I don't think those two facts are unrelated.

 

By the way, Ray Allen doesn't look so hot so far.

 

Garnett has been on bad teams. His teams that lost in the first round were always underdogs 6-7 seeds in the west playing agaisnt much more talented teams every year. Except one, and that year they went deep.

[MANNYHOF24]

43-28 The Celtics finally showing what they are made of tonight.

[MANNYHOF24]

Great first half, 50-32. They did everything right and Pierce only took 2 shots I think.

[See Red]

Garnett has been on bad teams. His teams that lost in the first round were always underdogs 6-7 seeds in the west playing agaisnt much more talented teams every year. Except one' date=' and that year they went deep.[/quote']

 

What about 2002-03?

 

Make whatever excuses you want, the guy's never won.

 

Even the biggest Boston sports homer alive recognizes this...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3403820

 

Pistons need to make an open shot -- they've had looks.

[MANNYHOF24]

Kobe never made it out of the first round without a supporting cast. Granted in was a smaller sample size but still.

[TheKilo]

What about 2002-03?

 

Make whatever excuses you want, the guy's never won.

 

Even the biggest Boston sports homer alive recognizes this...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3403820

 

Pistons need to make an open shot -- they've had looks.

 

Dude, I'm not so sure why you're so vehemently anti-Celtic or KG.

 

I think people have unrealistic expectations about Kevin Garnett. He's a 7 foot perimeter player on the offensive end. He's also probably the best defensive player of this generation.

 

He's never been the guy to absolutely take over games. Well, except for the Game 7 he had against the Kings in '03.

 

He's also a choker in the playoffs. Well, except for the fact his playoff numbers are very similar to his regular season numbers.

 

Do you really dispute that Minnesota's management completely s*** the bed with respect to surrounding KG with competent personnel?

[See Red]

It's not anti-KG... he's long been a player that I've liked even and there's nothing not to like about him, but he's not been a winner. That's not disputable. Why? Because he's never won. That's the argument. Has he played on the greatest teams? No, but we're not talking rings here, we're talking not getting out of the first round until he was surrounded with Sprewell and Cassell (besides, Lebron has done more with less). Looking lost late in games, which can't be shown statistically outside of a drop in his FG% in the last 5 minutes of games this year -- takes bad fouls like Simmons says and even looks uncomfortable.

 

By the way, this discussion was about all of the big three -- MannyHOF just chose to defend Garnett and not the other two. I'm defending my original point that the fact that the Celtics have struggled on the road in the playoffs up until last night and the fact that it was a team mostly of guys who'd never won aren't completely unrelated.

 

Was Kobe's 05-06 supporting cast better than Garnett's? Not really. Lamar Odom aside, not one of them is even contributing anything to any NBA team (Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Kwame, Devean George, Brian Cook...). Yet Kobe's made the playoffs and almost upset the Suns while Garnett's finished 15+ games under .500... and you could never make the argument that Garnett didn't care or didn't try hard for obvious reasons but you could use Kobe Bryant's refusal to shoot the ball in the second half of game 7 against the Suns to attempt to shut his critics up to argue that he was indifferent.

[TheKilo]

It's not anti-KG... he's long been a player that I've liked even and there's nothing not to like about him' date=' but he's [i']not[/i] been a winner. That's not disputable. Why? Because he's never won. That's the argument. Has he played on the greatest teams? No, but we're not talking rings here, we're talking not getting out of the first round until he was surrounded with Sprewell and Cassell (besides, Lebron has done more with less).

 

If you're comparing LeBron with KG, you get no argument from me. LeBron is a far superior player and will continue to be such for a long, long time.

 

Do you take strength of conferences into account? I'm fairly certain LeBron doesn't take that Cavs team to the Finals if they had to go through the Rockets and Warriors (which is what the Jazz, the West runner-up, did - we already know they weren't going to beat the Spurs).

 

Looking lost late in games, which can't be shown statistically outside of a drop in his FG% in the last 5 minutes of games this year -- takes bad fouls like Simmons says and even looks uncomfortable.

 

I'm a tad confused - where are you getting these numbers? Are they regular season, or playoff numbers?

 

Garnett looked fairly comfortable in the Cavs and Pistons series. I'll give you the Hawks, I think he played tentative in Atlanta, but he's been better in Cleveland and last night in Detroit.

 

By the way, this discussion was about all of the big three -- MannyHOF just chose to defend Garnett and not the other two. I'm defending my original point that the fact that the Celtics have struggled on the road in the playoffs up until last night and the fact that it was a team mostly of guys who'd never won aren't completely unrelated.

 

Again, you'll get no argument from me. Kobe and LBJ are far superior players to KG.

 

But then again - how many playoff series has Kobe won without Shaq?

 

Was Kobe's 05-06 supporting cast better than Garnett's? Not really. Lamar Odom aside, not one of them is even contributing anything to any NBA team (Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Kwame, Devean George, Brian Cook...). Yet Kobe's made the playoffs and almost upset the Suns while Garnett's finished 15+ games under .500... and you could never make the argument that Garnett didn't care or didn't try hard for obvious reasons but you could use Kobe Bryant's refusal to shoot the ball in the second half of game 7 against the Suns to attempt to shut his critics up to argue that he was indifferent.

 

Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Smush Parker is a better supporting cast than Wally Szcerbiak, Trenton Hassell, and Ricky Davis - and it isn't really close.

[See Red]

For what it's worth, by big three I meant Allen, Pierce, and KG -- I never intended to compare KG with anyone originally.

 

I just mean late in games he doesn't look all that comfortable. The FG% is regular season and only from this year -- it's not a telling stat but there's really nothing available. He's a good player but he's never had the reputation as someone to be feared when a game's on the line. That's because he's never given anybody a reason to fear him with a game on the line.

 

And please believe how much I hate quoting Bill Simmons, but I've been of the belief that if Bill Simmons writes a serious article on why his team won't win the title when they're the favorites and you're a Boston sports fan, you probably should see it to because he's nauseatingly homerish by trade and even had KG as the MVP.

 

"When he fails (and it's happened a few times this season), his mistakes are unbelievably amateurish—intentional fouls when the team doesn't need them, taking too many steps on his signature fall-away, that kind of stuff. The pressure gets to him. You can see it. In Game 4 of the first-round series with Atlanta, after a near-altercation with Zaza Pachulia, the camera found KG on the bench and he was practically hyperventilating."

 

Look... the argument wasn't "The Celtics won't win it all because Kevin Garnett is a proven loser"... the argument has morphed into Garnett being a career loser, but it was it's hard to expect the Celtics to win when their big three have never won anything, and nobody on the team that logs significant minutes ever has, Posey aside. The Celtics were easily my favorite in the East when the playoffs began... since then I've seen things that I've never seen on a Championship team. I stand by the fact that it takes a winning mentality to win road games in the playoffs and that's why the Celtics couldn't do it. Can they do it now? We'll see. I think they gained a lot more than just a W by winning in Detroit but it's also been pointed out that the Pistons have an MO for losing games they should win come playoff time -- something I'd never taken too strong of notice of.

 

As for the Lakers/T-Wolves comparison... I don't see it. I had to look to see if Smush was even in the League anymore that's how irrelevant he's become (and found he can barely log minutes for the worst team in the NBA since, apparently, teams with an option at the PG prefer to not give him playing time). Vujacic was a second year player logging 4 points a game (he's become a good player since, but still...). Luke Walton was good for 5 a game. Again, Odom's the only real contributor to that team that's still relevant. Say what you want about Wally and company but Wally is a second or third option a good playoff team and Ricky Davis was a starter and a good player in the League before that season. It all comes down to, in my mind, the combination of Wally and Ricky Davis being as valuable as Lamar Odom -- and I don't see that as a slight on Odom because he's a very good player -- and Hassell and Smush being a push (identical career paths). And then the rest of both rosters being terrible with the decent ones being too young to contribute.

 

I'll restate, though, that this conversation has gone in a direction I never really wanted nor intended for it to go originally. KG in his prime was a one-of-a-kind player and still is, really -- I'd put him before Malone and after Duncan if we're ranking PF's.

[TheKilo]

For what it's worth, by big three I meant Allen, Pierce, and KG -- I never intended to compare KG with anyone originally.

 

I just mean late in games he doesn't look all that comfortable. The FG% is regular season and only from this year -- it's not a telling stat but there's really nothing available. He's a good player but he's never had the reputation as someone to be feared when a game's on the line. That's because he's never given anybody a reason to fear him with a game on the line.

 

Fair enough. He's not a great offensive player, and I think was sagged with certain expectations when he came to Boston that he would have a VERY tough time filling.

 

By "great offensive player", I mean someone who doesn't have the ability to create his own shot, score from anywhere on the floor, etc. KG is the best defensive player of this generation who is skilled enough to drop about 20 a night and get you ~12 boards with it.

 

I suppose it's a fair criticism of KG, but it stems from unrealistic expectations many people have from the guy.

 

And please believe how much I hate quoting Bill Simmons, but I've been of the belief that if Bill Simmons writes a serious article on why his team won't win the title when they're the favorites and you're a Boston sports fan, you probably should see it to because he's nauseatingly homerish by trade and even had KG as the MVP.

 

"When he fails (and it's happened a few times this season), his mistakes are unbelievably amateurish—intentional fouls when the team doesn't need them, taking too many steps on his signature fall-away, that kind of stuff. The pressure gets to him. You can see it. In Game 4 of the first-round series with Atlanta, after a near-altercation with Zaza Pachulia, the camera found KG on the bench and he was practically hyperventilating."

 

Bill Simmons does not speak for me and I don't think sweeping generalizations are appropriate. I suppose it is fair criticism, but again, he HAS succeeded with games on the line just as often as he's failed. Is that an indictment of him as a player? I suppose. But he's not the "choker" many people label him, IMO.

 

Look... the argument wasn't "The Celtics won't win it all because Kevin Garnett is a proven loser"... the argument has morphed into Garnett being a career loser, but it was it's hard to expect the Celtics to win when their big three have never won anything, and nobody on the team that logs significant minutes ever has, Posey aside.

 

The fault in this line of thinking is that before this season, none of these three had anything resembling talent built around them, save for KG in 2004 and Pierce in 2002. Is it a coincidence that each team made it to their respective conference final? KG's Wolves lost to a Shaq/Kobe Lakers team in 7 games. Honestly, that is pretty impressive no matter how you look at it. The only other team to really give those Shaq/Kobe teams much trouble were the '04 Pistons.

 

I think you're severely underestimating how important the supporting cast is. Even LBJ's team last year was better than any Ray Allen has ever been on, and would be in the top 3 for KG and Pierce.

 

The Celtics were easily my favorite in the East when the playoffs began... since then I've seen things that I've never seen on a Championship team. I stand by the fact that it takes a winning mentality to win road games in the playoffs and that's why the Celtics couldn't do it. Can they do it now? We'll see. I think they gained a lot more than just a W by winning in Detroit but it's also been pointed out that the Pistons have an MO for losing games they should win come playoff time -- something I'd never taken too strong of notice of.

 

Embellishments aside, they are 6 wins away from banner #17. It may have taken them longer than people would like but that's really the most important fact, isn't it?

 

As for the Lakers/T-Wolves comparison... I don't see it. I had to look to see if Smush was even in the League anymore that's how irrelevant he's become (and found he can barely log minutes for the worst team in the NBA since, apparently, teams with an option at the PG prefer to not give him playing time).

 

What does Smush now have to do with Smush of three years ago? I'm confused.

 

Vujacic was a second year player logging 4 points a game (he's become a good player since, but still...). Luke Walton was good for 5 a game. Again, Odom's the only real contributor to that team that's still relevant. Say what you want about Wally and company but Wally is a second or third option a good playoff team and Ricky Davis was a starter and a good player in the League before that season. It all comes down to, in my mind, the combination of Wally and Ricky Davis being as valuable as Lamar Odom -- and I don't see that as a slight on Odom because he's a very good player -- and Hassell and Smush being a push (identical career paths). And then the rest of both rosters being terrible with the decent ones being too young to contribute.

 

And Kobe is a superior player to KG. There's your difference right there.

 

Kobe may be a top 5 player in league history when all is said and done. KG will probably be top 50. Nice company, but a difficult comparison.

 

I'll restate, though, that this conversation has gone in a direction I never really wanted nor intended for it to go originally. KG in his prime was a one-of-a-kind player and still is, really -- I'd put him before Malone and after Duncan if we're ranking PF's.

[See Red]

Well, Ray Allen had Sam Cassell and Glenn Robinson (when Glenn Robinson was an elite big man in the League) in Milwaukee and played on some talented Sonics teams.

 

The point about Smush Parker is that he was never that good of a player. He was the Lakers PG because they didn't have much of a choice at the time. He was terrible before he went to the Lakers and he was terrible when he left the Lakers so it's safe to say his production was a result of the Lakers not having a choice.

[The Dustball]

Shitttt. The Pistons are turning it on right away just like we did in Game 3. 16-4 right now. 5 Celtic turnovers as opposed to 0 Piston turnovers.

[The Dustball]

Wow. Unreal. The Pistons completely dominated this first half and yet the C's are only down by 4. Ray Allen really needs to step up and make some shots from the field. This should be a good second half! Go Celtcsssssssssss

[See Red]

Celtics have to be ecstatic to only be down four. Pistons might come out on a little run but if the Celtics can get any of the big three going I think they'll win this game.

 

edit: Chauncey looks like shiiiiiit.

[See Red]

McDyess is having a hell of a game. 19 points, 11 rebounds... what an effort from him so far.

[See Red]

Officiating like this makes me want to reach for the remote control. Who wants to watch guys shoot free throws all freakin' game? Let 'em play...

[The Dustball]

ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD that is just about it. Down by 10 with less than 3 minutes to go.

[Cityofchampions33]

Ray Allen really needs to step up and make some shots from the field.

 

Did you like jst notice his dissapearence from existence or...

[Thumper]

With the first nine months of the Baseketball postseason out of the way, the playoff picture is starting to emerge.