Joel Pineiro to be closer???

[Gom]

Piniero is ass. You guys seriously get excited about every bit player you sign. Britton is ass. Vizcaino is garbage. Nothing to write home about.

 

Just because a girl tells you what time it is when you ask her doesn't mean she wants to sleep with you. Remember that.

[example1]

Thanks for the advice Gom. I'll remember that.

 

We don't get 'excited' about every bit player, we just talk about what happens with the team. Today they signed their possible closer for next year. Ass or not I don't feel I need to justify talking about it, today of all days.

[ksushi]

Careful, Gom.

 

But, seriously, the yanks aren't going to spin the exact same prospects they just got for Randy off and get the next great Yankee. Thats ridiculous. The other teams in the MLB aren't also owned by Stienbrenner although a couple do owe him money. Look, I don't doubt cashman is saving prospects for a deal. Jackson and Humberto and maybe throw in Melky, and some of those teams dropping out of the race might be willing to part with marquee players but any player available might be a stretch. Those guys netted sheffield and randy johnson more recently, don't expect to turn that into Miguel Cabrera or Roy Oswalt.

 

Hey do you live in the Boston area? My dealer is all out and I'd love to try some of your s***.

[Gom]

Careful, Gom.

 

But, seriously, the yanks aren't going to spin the exact same prospects they just got for Randy off and get the next great Yankee. Thats ridiculous. The other teams in the MLB aren't also owned by Stienbrenner although a couple do owe him money. Look, I don't doubt cashman is saving prospects for a deal. Jackson and Humberto and maybe throw in Melky, and some of those teams dropping out of the race might be willing to part with marquee players but any player available might be a stretch. Those guys netted sheffield and randy johnson more recently, don't expect to turn that into Miguel Cabrera or Roy Oswalt.

 

Hey do you live in the Boston area? My dealer is all out and I'd love to try some of your s***.

 

So you are saying that a package headed by Humberto Sanchez, Steve Jackson, and Offendorf [or however you spell that guys name] can't get a marquee player? Each one of these players is worth more than the entire package we gave up to get Abreu. You could put all three of those players together and get most players from any team that is out of the race in July.

 

To say that they netted RJ and Sheffield isn't a fair comparison. Those players have no value to a team that is building for tomorrow. Ask any team that finished below .500 last year if they would rather have RJ and Sheffield or the 6 prospects the Yankees got. Guess what they will say?

 

Even if the Yankees keep them all, they've acquired depth.

 

I don't get you guys here. The Yankees are doing what they used to do, and what the Red Sox have already done in the last few years. Your shrewd drafting, compensation from free agents by letting them go, etc., has resulted overall in a net of Lester, Papelbon, Delcarmen, and Hansen. How come it is ok for you guys to do it, but when we do the same it's foolhardy?

 

Hats off to Theo. I kind of thought he was a flash in the pan, but he is turning out to be a great GM. Too bad you guys are so blinded by your hatred for the Yankees that you can't see that Cashman has been incredible this offseason as well.

[Gom]

Thanks for the advice Gom. I'll remember that.

 

We don't get 'excited' about every bit player, we just talk about what happens with the team. Today they signed their possible closer for next year. Ass or not I don't feel I need to justify talking about it, today of all days.

 

Why? What the hell is today?

[riverside sluggers]

I don't get you guys here. The Yankees are doing what they used to do' date=' [b']and what the Red Sox have already done in the last few years.[/b] Your shrewd drafting, compensation from free agents by letting them go, etc., has resulted overall in a net of Lester, Papelbon, Delcarmen, and Hansen. How come it is ok for you guys to do it, but when we do the same it's foolhardy?

 

Hats off to Theo. I kind of thought he was a flash in the pan, but he is turning out to be a great GM. Too bad you guys are so blinded by your hatred for the Yankees that you can't see that Cashman has been incredible this offseason as well.

 

When was the last time the Sox traded star players with big contracts for a basket of prospects?

[BSN07]

I see what your saying Gom. Theo and Cashman are making there way to the top of GM ranks. Both have done good things for there respective teams for the now and the future. What Cashman got out of Detroit and AZ for two over the hill high priced clubhouse whinys was nothing short of amazing and awe inspiring, same goes for Theo's draft classes the last couple of years.

 

 

Pinerio as closer? I'm willing to give it a shot, hopefully he can do it, and if not atleast be decent until one of the kids can take over. The only thing I'm worried about is as soon as he blows a save, RSN is going to be in a right state, wanting a trade for someone or second guessing the signing. I just hope that we understand he's not going to be as effective as Paps and give him a fair shake. Some fans in RSN can be a little trigger happy. If he can save around 80% of his save attempts he's well worth it.

[BSN07]

When was the last time the Sox traded star players with big contracts for a basket of prospects?

 

 

 

Thats a damn good question RS, the last superstar we traded was Nomar but we got ML players. The only time I can even think of is last year with Wells and we got Kottras. Everyother deal I can think of always had us sending prospects out for ML players, not the other way around or ML players for ML players. You got me stumped LOL!:thumbsup:

[riverside sluggers]

Piniero is ass. You guys seriously get excited about every bit player you sign. Britton is ass. Vizcaino is garbage. Nothing to write home about.

 

Just because a girl tells you what time it is when you ask her doesn't mean she wants to sleep with you. Remember that.

 

Who said anything about us being drop-dead excited about Pineiro? Most of the fans on here are either expecting the worst, or others (me included) are hoping this is an under the radar signing and he will at least be decent.

 

Yea every player the Sox get... everyone is excited. Did you see the same "sentiment" in your view when they signed Jason Johnson, re-acquired Rudy Seanez, Runelvys Hernandez, re-signing of Doug Mirabelli, JC Romero, Kevin Jarvis, Bryan Corey, Mike Burns, Willie Harris, etc. And those players were acquired throughout the past year

 

Say what you want RSN. You put Jackson, Sanchez, and Ohlendorf in a package come July, and you can pretty much get any player available at the trade deadline. Dontrelle, Miguel Cabrera, Sheets, Peavy, Oswalt...etc., etc.

 

Considering the Astros just extended Oswalt to a big contract and he's now their ace, it would have to take a BIG offer by the Yankees to even get Houston interested in chatting.

[jacksonianmarch]

So you are saying that a package headed by Humberto Sanchez' date=' Steve Jackson, and Offendorf [or however you spell that guys name'] can't get a marquee player? Each one of these players is worth more than the entire package we gave up to get Abreu. You could put all three of those players together and get most players from any team that is out of the race in July.

 

To say that they netted RJ and Sheffield isn't a fair comparison. Those players have no value to a team that is building for tomorrow. Ask any team that finished below .500 last year if they would rather have RJ and Sheffield or the 6 prospects the Yankees got. Guess what they will say?

 

Even if the Yankees keep them all, they've acquired depth.

 

I don't get you guys here. The Yankees are doing what they used to do, and what the Red Sox have already done in the last few years. Your shrewd drafting, compensation from free agents by letting them go, etc., has resulted overall in a net of Lester, Papelbon, Delcarmen, and Hansen. How come it is ok for you guys to do it, but when we do the same it's foolhardy?

 

Hats off to Theo. I kind of thought he was a flash in the pan, but he is turning out to be a great GM. Too bad you guys are so blinded by your hatred for the Yankees that you can't see that Cashman has been incredible this offseason as well.

 

What most arent realizing is the fact that we had two commodities without a ton of worth. We found the teams that saw them worthy and fleeced them.

 

Sheffield had 2 suitors, one was the cubbies and the other was detroit. We picked the team with a surplus of pitching talent. They paid through the nose in a deal that nearly any baseball writer worth his salt gave the yankees a standing O. Adding 3 pitchers from the tigers system in their top 13 prospects? Their #2, 4, and 7 pitching prospects from possibly the best pitching farm in baseball. For a 39 yr old malcontented RFer who had no position, was in the last yr of his contract, and did not bounce back well from wrist surgery. Not just that, Sanchez, starts the yr in AAA, Whelan will be in AA as closer, and Claggett the closer in Tampa. What I read on a tigers scouting site was interesting on the last Whelan, they actually expected him to hit the majors this season as a mid season callup. 3 high ranking prospects, 2 of which are considered to be making their MLB debuts this yr.

 

RJ is 43, coming off back surgery and his worst season in his career. He also wanted out. He is expected to miss a month of the yr and was in the last season of a contract that was paying him 16 mil. That doesnt scream worthiness to me. So, they looked at what his worth was. 2 teams wanted him, both saw him as a way to draw business in. The Yankees had a shot at Linebrink and the #3 prospect in SD in Headley (a single A 3b) (assuming they gave 7.5 mil to SD), but chose higher level pitching prospects and less cash to pay. Once again, the yankees picked the team with the deepest system. SD has one of the worst systems in baseball. And when a 23 yr old 3b who had an alright yr in single A ball is your #3 prospect, you got problems. Whereas, the DBacks have a system loaded to the gills with talent. The Yankees wanted pitching, and they got it. Ohlendorf is considered the prize of the deal, and from what is being reported, Cashman liked him better than Owings and Nippert. Ohlendorf is a 6'5 230lb "horse" with a power sinker who threw 180 innings of effective ball in AA last yr. Jackson is a guy who jumped 20 spots on the DBack minor league depth chart even though the DBacks had a solid draft. A 6'5" power righty with a plus slider and a MLB change who threw 150 innings of 2.5 era ball in AA. Both will be starters in AAA and both will are expected to make their MLB debuts this season. The SS is a guy who may amount to something, but he will report to AAA and see what happens.

 

Overall, the yankees added 3 starting pitchers to their AAA rotation, all three of which are still young and could end up in the Bronx by the end of the yr. They added a smooth fielding SS who hit for the first time last yr to their AAA squad. They added 2 power relievers, one will report to AA and has been considered a mid season callup in 07 and another who is further range down to single A. All while dumping a 5.00 era and 151 ABs for guys who next yr, were going to be gone for nothing.

[jacksonianmarch]

Who said anything about us being drop-dead excited about Pineiro? Most of the fans on here are either expecting the worst, or others (me included) are hoping this is an under the radar signing and he will at least be decent.

 

Yea every player the Sox get... everyone is excited. Did you see the same "sentiment" in your view when they signed Jason Johnson, re-acquired Rudy Seanez, Runelvys Hernandez, re-signing of Doug Mirabelli, JC Romero, Kevin Jarvis, Bryan Corey, Mike Burns, Willie Harris, etc. And those players were acquired throughout the past year

 

 

 

Considering the Astros just extended Oswalt to a big contract and he's now their ace, it would have to take a BIG offer by the Yankees to even get Houston interested in chatting.

 

and signed on the cheap now. Oswalt is a bargain. No way he moves.

[Mr Crunchy]

i know i havent left my dick alone since we signed joelle pineiro

that move really pumps my gnads

and as a closer too??

ya baby

that 7.50 era in the pitchers haven of seattle oughta sit well here

 

any wonder why the gastro intestinal business in massachusetts is flourishing??

[jacksonianmarch]

i know i havent left my dick alone since we signed joelle pineiro

that move really pumps my gnads

and as a closer too??

ya baby

that 7.50 era in the pitchers haven of seattle oughta sit well here

 

any wonder why the gastro intestinal business in massachusetts is flourishing??

 

You have an eloquent way of putting things old timer! May I be your apprentice? Damn, I am still laughing at this.

[ksushi]

So you are saying that a package headed by Humberto Sanchez' date=' Steve Jackson, and Offendorf [or however you spell that guys name'] can't get a marquee player?

 

 

Gonna stop you right here and not even read the rest of that. I said they can get a marquee player. Learn how to read. There are guys out there though that are untouchable that would require a lot more to get. Miguel Cabrera would take some big time names to get in like the other Stephen Jackson, the shortstop from the DBacks, or Delmon Young or Justin Upton, Liriano. Those types of prospects could make an untouchable player available. "Can't miss" prospects. Andy Marte might be one of them. Steven Jackson and Humberto Sanchez aren't those guys. They're very very good, I'd say Sanchez is up there with the Lesters and the Hughes's but Jackson is a little lesser but supposedly has great stuff. Gandolf or whatever is a single A pitcher with a less than sparkling resume, so trading him might be getting low value this season until he has nice results to go along with his stuff.

 

Now, before you respond, read and understand.

 

Edit, got my olendorf infro from a crappy source. Apparently he pitched in AA last year.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree complicitly with you ksush aside from Ohlendorf. He pitched 182 innings last season in AA ball and was clocked at 91-95 as the season was coming to a close on his sinker. Kid can throw. He also walked only 29 in those 182 innings. I agree on your assessment of Jackson. He has the numbers, not really sure why he is rated so poorly. He has the stuff, has the numbers, has the control. The only knock on him is command, so I guess command issues were enough to knock him down a but in their system. In most systems, a guy with mid 90s heat, a plus slider and another major league pitch with control at still a young age and progressing with success through the minors usually gets you a top 10 ranking. One other thing I read on him was that he has s*** mechanics in 05, had them completely retooled for 06 and had a breakout year. The question is, in a new situation with new coaches, will he revert to his old ways?

[Mr Crunchy]

pineiro can indeed pitch

he tends to get panicky when behind on counts but the man can pitch

why has his era doubled in 4 years??

this is the question that needs to be addressed

hes young

he took a cut in pay since the mariners didnt want him back

its a 4M gamble

we need 1458 innings of pitching....figure the starters for 900+ this year

the other 500-550 will determine where exactly this team is headed

if we need 600 bullpen innings this summer we will be f***ed

[rician blast]

What the FO is doing )or attempting to do) is build bullpen depth, provide the team with options throughout the year, and then likely settle on a closer and two set up guys in the last 1/4 of the season and through, God willing, the playoffs.

 

It worked in 2003, folks. Only GRady Little f*cked it all up. But it did work.

[jacksonianmarch]

What the FO is doing )or attempting to do) is build bullpen depth, provide the team with options throughout the year, and then likely settle on a closer and two set up guys in the last 1/4 of the season and through, God willing, the playoffs.

 

It worked in 2003, folks. Only GRady Little f*cked it all up. But it did work.

 

It didnt work in 03, but they were in better shape than now because the sox had pitchers who were in their prime in that pen. Plus, it cost the sox early on that season blowing saves before BH Kim took over. And overall, the pen really kinda sucked.

 

They converted less than 63% of their team saves, which ranked 22nd in all of baseball. They had the 8th most blown saves with 21. The pen was 20th in opp OPS. 19th in Opp OBP. 21st in opp SLG. 28th in ERA. Their 27 losses ranked them 8th. They were tied for the lead in bullpen decisions, which is NEVER a good thing. Also, while having one of the best rotation the sox ever had, they still put in the 6th most innings in the AL. Their BAA was 3rd worst in the AL, 25th overall in the MLB.

 

I mean, those stats SUCK. That was a bad pen that got on a roll at the right time, and of those 21 blown saves and 27 losses, how many could have been avoided? The Yankees won the division by 6 games. If the sox had a closer who could convert like Paps did (85%) back then, then these no good bastards would have thwarted my yankees for the ALE! Never underestimate the important of having a solid pen, especially one whose closer is determined. You were carried by the good fortune of your rotation who were blowing people away and the rest of the rotation ate innings. That pen nearly felled you. You only won the WC by 2 games. Imagine if it was WORSE than that year's ebachle, which it very well could be this yr.

[ORS]

It didnt work in 03, but they were in better shape than now because the sox had pitchers who were in their prime in that pen. Plus, it cost the sox early on that season blowing saves before BH Kim took over. And overall, the pen really kinda sucked.

 

They converted less than 63% of their team saves, which ranked 22nd in all of baseball. They had the 8th most blown saves with 21. The pen was 20th in opp OPS. 19th in Opp OBP. 21st in opp SLG. 28th in ERA. Their 27 losses ranked them 8th. They were tied for the lead in bullpen decisions, which is NEVER a good thing. Also, while having one of the best rotation the sox ever had, they still put in the 6th most innings in the AL. Their BAA was 3rd worst in the AL, 25th overall in the MLB.

 

I mean, those stats SUCK. That was a bad pen that got on a roll at the right time, and of those 21 blown saves and 27 losses, how many could have been avoided? The Yankees won the division by 6 games. If the sox had a closer who could convert like Paps did (85%) back then, then these no good bastards would have thwarted my yankees for the ALE! Never underestimate the important of having a solid pen, especially one whose closer is determined. You were carried by the good fortune of your rotation who were blowing people away and the rest of the rotation ate innings. That pen nearly felled you. You only won the WC by 2 games. Imagine if it was WORSE than that year's ebachle, which it very well could be this yr.

Rician said they are trying to get enough depth to figure it out on the run, which is what happened in '03. Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to just say, "I agree"? I mean, that is what you did in the part in bold. You like to f***ing pontificate about meaningless s*** so much that you don't even know when you prove someone else's point.

[riverside sluggers]

Imagine if it was WORSE than that year's ebachle' date=' which it very well could be this yr.[/quote']

 

Ok now you are saying that this year's team is going to be worse than last year's team, keep spinning your wet dreams propaganda Even though both the starting rotation and lineup have taken considerable upgrades. Yes the bullpen needs some tinkering but dont act like they are the 2nd coming of KC/Tampa bullpens of old and each of these relievers cant sustain an ERA under 4.5

 

EDIT: The 2006 opening day rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Wakefield, Clement threw a combined 614 innings pitched! Thats an average of just 123 inngs per starter, which made the 06 bullpen look much worse because of how many innings they had to be used for. Id be surprised if they have to work same amount (or in your mind) more innings than last year's bullpen.

[example1]

Why? What the hell is today?

 

'Today' is the day they signed him. If there were any day to discuss the signing and possible ramifications of his signing it is the day of his signing.

[BSN07]

Maybe this guy still has something in the tank. He's only 28, I like this signing( younger pitcher, has capability of coming throwing mid 90's for one inning) then bringing in someone like Seanez( should have been selling peanuts in the stands of the Mexican league).

 

We will see what happens, he's worth a shot, if he sucks they will just cut him loose.

[jacksonianmarch]

Rician said they are trying to get enough depth to figure it out on the run' date=' which is what happened in '03. Wouldn't it have been a lot easier to just say, "I agree"? I mean, that is what you did in the part in bold. You like to f***ing pontificate about meaningless s*** so much that you don't even know when you prove someone else's point.[/quote']

 

The depth they added for the "run" was at midseason. And it was a miracle for one of the worst pens in the majors to put it together for the postseason. A miracle. The only thing I'd draw off 2003 was that a solid rotation and offense can overcome a lot. Thats about it. Or you can draw from it that a bad bullpen cost you the shot at the east, and if it were any worse, would have cost you the wildcard.

[jacksonianmarch]

Maybe this guy still has something in the tank. He's only 28, I like this signing( younger pitcher, has capability of coming throwing mid 90's for one inning) then bringing in someone like Seanez( should have been selling peanuts in the stands of the Mexican league).

 

We will see what happens, he's worth a shot, if he sucks they will just cut him loose.

 

this sounds like Seanez to me. I just dont get the high cash output for a guy who should have gotten a minor league deal.

[ORS]

The depth they added for the "run" was at midseason. And it was a miracle for one of the worst pens in the majors to put it together for the postseason. A miracle. The only thing I'd draw off 2003 was that a solid rotation and offense can overcome a lot. Thats about it. Or you can draw from it that a bad bullpen cost you the shot at the east' date=' and if it were any worse, would have cost you the wildcard.[/quote']

Whatever. Doesn't change the fact that you blathered on endlessly while essentially agreeing. I think you like to read your own mental diarrhea too much. Tons said with little substance.

[OrtizNation]

I don't know about the closer role with Piniero. He posted an ERA over 6 last year playing in a very good pitcher's park. Now he's out of the offense-less AL West and is jumping into the AL East in one of the best hitter's parks in all of baseball. I have no confidence in Piniero emerging as a suitable closer.

 

As of right now, the Sox have nothing but a few servicable middle relievers in the bullpen. They need a significant signing and/or trade to truely upgrade. It looks like it's too late to make any big signing now bc there's no one left on the market.

 

Right now I'd say the Sox best option is to keep Papelbon at the closer spot and sign another starter or use a mix of Piniero, Tavarez, and AAA guys until Lester is healthy. They should be more careful about overworking JP by giving Timlin or Donnelly save opportunities when Papelbon needs rest. If by midseason Papelbon is really unhappy, they'll hopefully be able to trade for a closer on the block and then Papelbon could slide back into the rotation.

[Fried Neckbones]

I would agree, Ortiz, but for a couple of things. First, the main reason that Paps got overworked last season was the lack of a quality starter in front of him. When your crappy, rotating 5th starter can only go 4 or 5 innings, it eats up the bullpen. Second, I don't want to see him yo-yo'd between multiple positions and roles. He needs to have a settled spot so he can prepare, set his offseason routines, and get into the mentality that he's either going to pitch every 5th day, or pitch out of the pen. Telling Paps at this point that, never mind all of your conditioning the past 5 months to prepare to start, you're going into the pen to close again, but you might slide back into the rotation halfway through the season would be quite damaging to his career.

[adam123]

i think this could work out .. because we are never gonna get chad cordero .. i think our pen and rotaiton is really starting to come around. but thats what we said last year ... well we wont have to worry about the Guardians the got folke man how could anyone pay him after last 2 seasons

[hoke3182]

I don't know about the closer role with Piniero. He posted an ERA over 6 last year playing in a very good pitcher's park. Now he's out of the offense-less AL West and is jumping into the AL East in one of the best hitter's parks in all of baseball. I have no confidence in Piniero emerging as a suitable closer.

 

As of right now, the Sox have nothing but a few servicable middle relievers in the bullpen. They need a significant signing and/or trade to truely upgrade. It looks like it's too late to make any big signing now bc there's no one left on the market.

 

Right now I'd say the Sox best option is to keep Papelbon at the closer spot and sign another starter or use a mix of Piniero, Tavarez, and AAA guys until Lester is healthy. They should be more careful about overworking JP by giving Timlin or Donnelly save opportunities when Papelbon needs rest. If by midseason Papelbon is really unhappy, they'll hopefully be able to trade for a closer on the block and then Papelbon could slide back into the rotation.

Either Papelbon's gonna be the closer or he won't, you can't just start him at closer and then throw him into the rotation. Unless if they make a trade of some sort, which won't happen, the sox are stuck with what they have in the bullpen, until hopefully they pull a deal at the deadline.

[Gom]

Gonna stop you right here and not even read the rest of that. I said they can get a marquee player. Learn how to read. There are guys out there though that are untouchable that would require a lot more to get. Miguel Cabrera would take some big time names to get in like the other Stephen Jackson, the shortstop from the DBacks, or Delmon Young or Justin Upton, Liriano. Those types of prospects could make an untouchable player available. "Can't miss" prospects. Andy Marte might be one of them. Steven Jackson and Humberto Sanchez aren't those guys. They're very very good, I'd say Sanchez is up there with the Lesters and the Hughes's but Jackson is a little lesser but supposedly has great stuff. Gandolf or whatever is a single A pitcher with a less than sparkling resume, so trading him might be getting low value this season until he has nice results to go along with his stuff.

 

Now, before you respond, read and understand.

 

Edit, got my olendorf infro from a crappy source. Apparently he pitched in AA last year.

 

Maybe you should take your own advice and read what I said, lol.

 

Not to start an argument, but my only point is this. The Yankees are much more primed to make a push for a major trade deadline deal than they have in years. I truthfully can't remember the last time we had a surplus of pitching in our farm system. Is what we have enough to land a marquee name? I really don't have an idea. I'm sure that most people didn't expect us to get Abreu and Lidle for the trash we gave up either.

 

If we can get Abreu and Lidle for what we gave up, imagine if we gave up what we got this offseason. It's just more ammunition. With that, I rest.