Jacoby Ellsbury

[ORS]

Ok mod... wait, you're not a MOD..lol....

Tool.

[yeszir]

Ok mod... wait, you're not a MOD..lol....

So you want me to say it to you?

[ClayBuchholzIsDaFuture]

So you want me to say it to you?

Don't abuse your power dude. :dunno:

[yeszir]

Don't abuse your power dude. :dunno:

Don't insult people when they are just trying to help.

[ClayBuchholzIsDaFuture]

Don't insult people when they are just trying to help.

Help? more like being nosy, but if that's the motto on talksox then I'll have to abide won't I?

[ksushi]

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but you really are a tool.

[ClayBuchholzIsDaFuture]

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but you really are a tool.

Hey Mr Administrator, wouldn't that be an insult? lmao

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Hey Mr Administrator, wouldn't that be an insult? lmao

 

No, Yeszir said..

 

Don't insult people when they are just trying to help.

 

Were you trying to help anyone/anything? Hmm...

[26 to 6]

I am a wee bit surprised he's still here.

[ClayBuchholzIsDaFuture]

I am a wee bit surprised he's still here.

Who, me? In all respect, what have I done to deserve to get banned?

[ClayBuchholzIsDaFuture]

Can we stay on topic now? This thread's about Ellsbury, let give the person who started this thread the respect he/she deserves.

[example1]

Who, me? In all respect, what have I done to deserve to get banned?

 

Who CARES everyone! Geez. Let's talk some baseball.

 

Ellsbury, your thoughts?

[yeszir]

Who, me? In all respect, what have I done to deserve to get banned?

Nothing. This is a dumb argument. Back on topic...

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Who CARES everyone! Geez. Let's talk some baseball.

 

Ellsbury, your thoughts?

I think he did fine , for what is was. He's at least one, and probably two years away from the Sox ( that's the fast track ).

[Cityofchampions33]

How would he and Crisp fit in the OF?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

How would he and Crisp fit in the OF?

 

Crisp moves to right? :dunno:

 

Or left if Manny is gone

[jsinger121]

crisp is more suited for left. he doesn't have the arm to play right in fenway

[26 to 6]

But he certainly does have the range. I think it would be a waste to put him in left. But either way there is something wrong, if you put him in right, then you have a rightfielder without a good arm, if you put him in left, then you're wasting his abilities. But I guess that deciscion will be made when the time comes, depending on who the other outfielder is.

[ksushi]

If Jacobi has an arm, playing him in right might not be out of the question. No need to rush him, he could prove to be valuable trade bait too.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Someone on YES said Damon has a better arm than Crisp. I was laughing so hard I thought I was going to piss myself.

[jsinger121]

Someone on YES said Damon has a better arm than Crisp. I was laughing so hard I thought I was going to piss myself.

 

they are about the same.....typical yes overplaying johnny damons arm.

[CrespoBlows]

If Jacobi has an arm, playing him in right might not be out of the question. No need to rush him, he could prove to be valuable trade bait too.

 

Ellsbury has a ton of range, but he lacks the arm to play RF. I guess he could play there though, but the Red Sox would have to get their power elsewhere on the diamond.

[ksushi]

Power in the lineup has nothing to do with position. That is one of the old school things that I really disagree with. I mean, typically, I go with the old school flow, but not about that. I think there are some positions where you can sacrifice some grace in the field for some pop with the bat, but I don't think there is any proven baseball stategy in having power hitting 1st basemen and right fielders and what have you.

 

1st base is actually a key defensive position, you've got to have a steady reciever who can mop up throwing errors. Rightfield, especially at fenway, is also key. You need to have a range guy and a guy who can play that wall and corner well.

 

There are positions where defense takes priority, like SS and CF, but I don't think there are positions where offense necessarily does. You've got to have power in the 3-hole and the 4 hole with a competent guy who can slot in fifth and provide protection, what positions they play doesn't matter.

[ORS]

Power in the lineup has nothing to do with position. That is one of the old school things that I really disagree with. I mean, typically, I go with the old school flow, but not about that. I think there are some positions where you can sacrifice some grace in the field for some pop with the bat, but I don't think there is any proven baseball stategy in having power hitting 1st basemen and right fielders and what have you.

 

1st base is actually a key defensive position, you've got to have a steady reciever who can mop up throwing errors. Rightfield, especially at fenway, is also key. You need to have a range guy and a guy who can play that wall and corner well.

 

There are positions where defense takes priority, like SS and CF, but I don't think there are positions where offense necessarily does. You've got to have power in the 3-hole and the 4 hole with a competent guy who can slot in fifth and provide protection, what positions they play doesn't matter.

Actually, sticking power at the corners and paying attention to the defensive spectrum is new-school. Bill James came up with the defensive spectrum and the idea that it was more advantageous to put great offensive players on the easier end of the spectrum.

[example1]

Actually, sticking power at the corners and paying attention to the defensive spectrum is new-school. Bill James came up with the defensive spectrum and the idea that it was more advantageous to put great offensive players on the easier end of the spectrum.

 

Can you elaborate a little bit here? I think I tend to agree with Ksushi (and I think you do too, ORS, in general) so I'm wondering what you mean by defensive spectrum. It makes little difference to me whether or not the 130 RBI's comes from my 3B or from my 2B, or from my CF. I thought part of the moneyball philosophy is to recreate the aggrigate production lost in any potential move (i.e., replacing Damon is only acceptable if it is possible to replace the aggrigate value--in, say, runs created, or OBP, or whatever your guiding philosophy is--with someone else, or a combination of players). That seems new school-ish to me, but I don't remember James (in any of his baseball handbooks) saying that having power in the corners is preferable to power anywhere else. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

 

Does it have something to do with relative scarcity of power in any particular position? Fill us in.

[ORS]

I really wasn't clear there, sorry. Here's the spectrum:

 

DH - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C

 

There is an abundance of offensive talent capable of playing the left end of the spectrum, but as you move to the right the talent becomes more and more scarce. I agree with you and ksushi that it doesn't matter where the power comes from, but when you have below average power on the left end of the spectrum, it will that much harder to replace it as you find players for the positions on the right. So, yeah, I was really referring to the scarcity of middle in the field talent.

[example1]

I really wasn't clear there, sorry. Here's the spectrum:

 

DH - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C

 

There is an abundance of offensive talent capable of playing the left end of the spectrum, but as you move to the right the talent becomes more and more scarce. I agree with you and ksushi that it doesn't matter where the power comes from, but when you have below average power on the left end of the spectrum, it will that much harder to replace it as you find players for the positions on the right. So, yeah, I was really referring to the scarcity of middle in the field talent.

 

Nice. Very clear explanation, thanks.

 

What the hell do you think is with that spectrum? What do you think that means? I mean, it makes perfect sense, and SEEMS right, as far as the relative scarcity of power in those positions and it probably plays out statistically as well (if bill James put his stamp on it). But does that mean that historically athletes who are good power hitters tend to lack the other skills to play positions that require more speed and finely tuned skills such as fielding, accurate throws and speed? Or are they encouraged early on to focus more on their hitting than their fielding, compared to someone with more mediocre hitting skills who would be encouraged to work on bolstering their defensive skills? I'm not sure. Its a weird thing.

 

I just wonder why it works out that way over the long run.

[26 to 6]

they are about the same.....typical yes overplaying johnny damons arm.

Actually, Yankee people, and YES included have not gone easy on Damon's arm. To say that Damonsis better than Coco's os absurd, btu saying that Coco's is better than Damons isnt much better either.

 

 

Actually, sticking power at the corners and paying attention to the defensive spectrum is new-school. Bill James came up with the defensive spectrum and the idea that it was more advantageous to put great offensive players on the easier end of the spectrum.

idk if he came up with that theory per se, btu he definately promoted and agreed with it. Thats always been a baseball philosophy for the most part.

[example1]

Just thought I would add this little quib:

 

"Last year's top pick, center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, made the play of the day in the minor league game. David Murphy launched a Schilling changeup to the base of the wall in right-center, and Ellsbury, on a dead run, dived, reeled in the ball in midair, and hit the warning track, sending up a plume of dust as he rolled into the wall. ''That was a fantastic catch," Schilling said. ''To someone who's as terrifically slow as I am, he looked even faster." Later, Ellsbury reached on a bunt single against Tim Wakefield, even though Wakefield knew Ellsbury would be bunting. The reason: He jammed his wrist late last season, and the Sox have brought him along slowly this year. Ellsbury, the former Oregon State star, is hitting in a cage and soon should progress to taking cuts in games."

 

I'm psyched to see this guy play, but I think it will take until next spring and a lucky long-distance NESN preseason broadcast.

 

 

FWIW, Ellsbury is still in the EA Sports game NCAA Baseball 06, playing CF for Oregon State. He's one of the best in the game. Just a side-note.

[Cityofchampions33]

He is? What is it? Like last year rosters? lol