S5Dewey

I don't think the Sox have a plan other than not spending money and seeing what happens. When a team "rebuilds" they rebuild around certain players and unless the plan is to rebuild around their "Superstar SS who's never played above A-Ball" I don't see much there to rebuild around. Of course there's always the possibility that they're banking on those two last place finishes to help them rebuild the farm through the first round draft picks.

The "secret" of course is to take a chance and sign your top prospects to long term deals before they prove themselves - which is pretty risky. Equally risky is not signing them until they prove themselves. But as long as we're on that topic (ok, *I* am on that topic) can we please pump the brakes just a bit on Mayer until he's proven himself at a level higher than A-Ball?

If you want to go back to since before Bloom took over I'd agree that they are "contenders year after year". However... Sox finishes since Bloom too over as COO (or whatever that title is now) 2018 - Won their division with 108 wins! This team had Betts, Bogaerts, and Devers. 2019 - 3rd. Bloom took over after the end of the season, Betts got traded before 2020 season 2020 - Last 2021 - 2nd 2022 - Last, Lost Bogaerts to FA before the 2023 season 2023 - Unknown, but if losing Betts hurt the team then you also have to think that losing Bogarts will hurt too. 2024 - Unknown, but you can bet that if Devers goes to FA after 2023 this ain't gonna be pretty. This team was a contender pre-Bloom but that hasn't really since Bloom took over. IMO one would have to be very naive to think the Sox can be competitive if they remain willing to let the best player on their team get away.

It's not the amount of money Henry is spending that's the problem, it's the amount of money he's not spending. He (and Bloom) are consistently underestimating the market and whistling while owners who want to win and/or draw fans are setting the market. Here's the question that goes unanswered: If the Dodgers, Yankees, and even the Padres can spend the money necessary to sign these players why can't the Boston Red Sox? Fenway is a big draw and they have a big NESN contract (which in itself feeds Henry). It's not a matter of their not being able to - the issue is that they refuse to. That's why they get stuck with 2nd tier players in their OF and looking for a SS at Christmas and their fans are becoming resigned to losing an AS 3rd baseman.

Having made the post season isn't a big deal with the extended playoffs and it certainly shouldn't be the goal for the Boston Red Sox. When one considers the money they've spent making the playoffs should be a given. And how many WSC do they have in that past four years? Or the past 10 years? The answer is a big round number - 0. You're right. The Rays are a good team but not a great team and probably never will be a ALEast contender year after year. That's not a goal the Red Sox should have.

It's hard for me to say what their long term plan is when it doesn't look like they know. If I had to guess I'd say that their long term plan is to not pay any player the kind of money the top-shelf players are getting now and instead try to become the Tampa Bay Rays - build a farm club that will let the parent club usually finish in the top half of the AL East. IOW become average and reap the money from loyal Sox fans for as long as it lasts, then sell the club. It certainly isn't to win now or to build a team that will win their division within the next couple of years.

If history tells us anything at all it's that Devers can be signed for less money right now than he will demand once he hits the open market. We as fans know it and the FO knows it. Their unwillingness to sign him now speaks volumes about their longer term plan.

It's the executive way of doing things. One shits and another one covers it up.

Welcome to the world of the Minnesota Twins!

Let me get this straight. You're now blaming the MEDIA for the unhappiness over what the Sox FO has done???????? Does the phrase "Shooting the messenger" ring a bell?

Post #188 in the thread "Devers next deal": "No offense to you, I like your posts, but the act I'm seeing reeks of spoiled fans who think we are entitled to a ring every 4-6 years." While I appreciate that he said No Offense Intended I do take offense at that characterization. It's kinda like Tony Soprano saying, "Nothing personal, it's only business" before he shoots someone in the head. I've been posting here off and on for numerous years nearly always either supporting what the Sox do or keeping my fingers off the keyboard when I'm unhappy and I do find it offensive to be characterized as a spoiled fan who expects a ring every five or six years. The fact is that I'm tired of seeing what I'm seeing - that the Sox are continually letting fan favorites and quality players get away from them - and if my opinion offends some posters here.... I can live with that as long as they know I intend no offense.

You have to have an above average glove in RF regardless of who's playing left field, and I agree that Verdugo IS NOT that guy.

This is worth reading if you can get it. It seems that in spite of my being characterized here as being a "spoiled fan who expects a WSC every year" I'm not the only one who isn't happy with the way the Sox handled the Bogaerts deal (as well as the other deals that ended the same way). https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/12/14/sports/red-sox-xander-bogaerts-analysis/?s_campaign=bostonglobe:push:web

This site is made up of hard-core Red Sox fans, fans who arguably spend too much time typing about the Sox, and some of us are beginning to see through it. If this site is any indication then the act is getting very old.

It's not the amount of money an owner spends, it's what he gets for that money. As a fan I feel somewhat 'used' when I see Bloom wait until the major talent either gets signed or their price continues to escalate. Then the FO has the gall to imply that the signings were the best they could get at the time. I can't help but get the feeling that we as fans are being played....by a master.

If your criteria is how much money JH has spent that's fine. He's being "successful". But if your criteria is winning you cannot ignore the fact that he's unwilling to spend big when the time is right, and the Sox record shows it. Yes, we lost those players and won but you can't ignore the trades/FA signings he's made. Prior to the 2004 season the Red Sox picked up the best pitcher available every year for five years. (Matt Clement was the first one and while that didn't work out after he took a batted ball in the head, he was the best available at the time.) How many times has JH signed the best pitcher available in the past four years? Anybody can spend money. The trick is spending it in the right places.

That's a very nice history lesson. Now can we talk about the more recent past? Has watched two franchise players walk in the past 3+ years. Finished last in their division two of the last four years. Haven't won their division in five years. All of this in spite of having one of the largest fan bases in baseball and charging some of the highest ticket prices. I don't expect a WSC every year. I don't even expect them to win their division every year. What I DO expect is that they're going to be competitive every year, and getting beaten out by the Baltimore Orioles is NOT being competitive.

Is it? When the "known" has shown a reluctance to sign home-grown top-shelf talent because it will make the team weaker in eight years? And resigning the team to mediocrity during that eight year period? Tell me...what's the upside to this?

Well put. I have the bill for my ST season tix on my desk and I can't get myself to write the check. I probably will write that check but it's not to support the ineptness of the Boston Red Sox but rather because I'm a fan of baseball combined with it being a month in Ft. Myers after a New England winter.

Most folks I talk with don't think that Bogey was THE essential signing but they think that it was AN essential signing. There are certain players a team builds around and the Sox seem to have a habit of letting those players move on under the guise of, "We don't want to be bad in eight years". The Red Sox have had losing records (let me say that again, LOSING RECORDS) in two of the past four years. This from a team that has one of the highest payrolls in baseball. Their spending keeps MBL from accusing the Sox of "tanking" but it well proves that they're spending their money on the wrong people. What they're doing is not working and some of us want to see them start doing something different. Mediocrity is not a good option for the Boston Red Sox but that seems to be the direction the team is heading in. The RS FO has been publicly selling the story that signing people like Lester, Betts and Bogey will make the team weak in eight years and too many people are buying into it. What they're not telling you is that with their current spending habits this team won't be challenging for any championships within that eight year period either.

IMO that's pretty obvious that they want to spend second rate money, and when you spend second rate money you get second rate results.

Why would you think that when the Sox have a recent history of not being willing to pay premier money for premier players?

We must like it. We keep believing it.

There are all kinds of excuses for the Sox not paying premium salaries for premium players. "It's Bloom's fault for not signing these guys". "It's John Henry's fault for refusing to pay what the market is demanding." "We can't sign [fill in the player's name here] because paying that salary when he's 40 will hamstring us financially and we won't be able to be competitive then." Well, ya know what? You're not competitive NOW and you're not going to be competitive as long as you fear what the team will look like in eight years. Teams are paying that much NOW to be competitive NOW. Sox fans pay a premium to have a competitive team on the field and they have a right to expect a competitive team and I'm getting tired of hearing the excuses that breed systemic mediocrity. We watched Lester walk, we watched Mookie walk, and now we've watched Bogaerts walk, all homegrown talent and I have every reason to think that Raffie will be next. They'll tell us that it's because if they sign these guys now the team will suck in eight years...and we buy that as an excuse for watching talent leave Boston. What they're not telling us...and we should recognize... is that as long as the Red Sox continue to worry about what the team will look like eight years down the road they won't ever be competitive. We watch them dick around with ticket prices every year to make themselves more money but when the time comes to spend that money they hide behind the great motivator - FEAR of what the the team might look like in 2030. And we buy that rationale.

That was almost 30 years ago. He had a respectable career that only lasted about five years after that.