moonslav59

I agree with you on Moncada being major league ready offensively but I'm deadly opposed to giving him a look at LF. What's the point? Benintendi is our future LF. Why cloud the issue? What if we do stick Moncada in LF, what the hell are we going to do with Benintendi? Well, before the Espi trade I thought it might take Espi, Beni and Swi to get us a much better pitcher than Pomernaz, but I clearly see Beni as our future LF'er. There's another piece to the future roster puzzle of the Sox: assuming Moncada is better offensively than Beni, what if two or three of these things happen by opening day next year: 1) We sign Encarnacion to be our DH/1Bman. 2) Pablo comes back in shape next year and wins back the 3B position. 3) Shaw learns to hit LHPs and continues at a near .800 OPS. 4) HanRam ends up near .850 at season end and does well in the playoffs. 5) Sam Travis rakes in ST'ing. The log-jam at 3B/1B/DH could make it feasible to want Moncada in LF over Beni. I'm with you though: I think Moncada's landing spot should be 3B and sooner rather than later. If some of those above scenarios happen all together, we can trade one of those guys once we are certain Moncada is ready to play 3B. I'm still not ruling out Moncada starting out seeing a lot of DH, until he shows he can play 3B and hit at the MLB level better than the guys on my list above. Moncada should be a 3B. Yes his ceiling is much higher than Benintendi's but Benintendi's ceiling right now is higher than anyone but Moncada. They both need to be in Sox's long range plan. Things will get really interesting when Devers arrive. I think Devers is farther away than most may think. I also think he and Swihart will be winter trade fodder. Thing I appreciate most about DD is that he is very decisive. He sees a need and goes about fixing it. He is the ultimate FIXER. Ziegler looks to be a nice pick up. I think Koji will blow couple of saves and Ziegler will eventually take over that role as Kimbrel recovers. I think Uehara is a much better closer, assuming he gets the HR bug out of his system. I never feel comfy with a sidewinder as closer, but maybe I'm biased.

Well, I certainly was not the only poster thinking our biggest weakness was starting pitching before the season even began. Our next biggest weakness was bullpen depth. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, because it seemed like the majority of posters agreed that our biggest hole was a top quality SP'er. I understand the quantity philosophy- stacking the bottom of the rotation with several guys in hopes that 1-2 or maybe 3 stick. Well, one did - Wright. The rest of the "questionable" to mediocre fizzled, fazzled and skedaddled. I realize the Erod injury/struggles were a bit surprising, but any rotation should be planned around at least one injury to a key starter. Yeah, Porcello was "locked in" and I had more confidence than most here did on him all along, but he still had a serious concern factor. One could say we got two prayers answered out of the 8 we had after Price: Wright and Porcello. Buch was a risk. Kelly was a risk. Wright was not even on many poster's radar. Owens and Johnson were risks. Elias was a risk. I've never bought into the quantity vs quality philosophy of building a rotation. It rarely works. That's also a big reason, I'm almost always against trying to slightly improve your staff by upgrading from a poor 5th starter to a decent 5th starter. All 5th starters are high-risk, or else they wouldn't be 5th starters. I don't count Pomeranz as a 5th starter or even a 4th starter. I'd probably count him as a good number 3 with potential to be a number 2, but with a lot of concern about injury or extended struggles. I'm trying to stay positive, but I don't get why so many here seem to hate Buch, but are gushing over Pomeranz based on 17 starts. Last year, Buch gave us 17 starts equal to or better than JD's this year with the Pahds. The guy has put up some nice numbers in the 250 IP he's pitched over the last 3 years. It's funny that Buch has over 350 IP over that same period, but he's labeled "injury prone" and Pomeranz is a possible savior based on a rather small sample size. I guess a pitcher is "only as good as his last start." I trust the Sox know what they're doing, but why didn't they just trade dirt for him 5 months ago? I'm hoping I'm wrong on this trade. To me, it's more about Espi's upside potential than my worries about Pomernaz's skill set and projected future, even though I've ranted more about JD than AE. We should be a much better team over the next 2.4 seasons with JD aboard. His cost control will also help us fill other key needs over the next two winters, assuming he finishes strong and gives us confidence penciling him in as a solid #2/3 SP'er. I know Espi was a risk as well, but I prefer the 5-6 years of team control and risk on Espi over 2.4 years of risk and control on JD. I'm more of a patient guy than most, but I can see why immediate gratification often tilts the balance on decision-making in the world today.

In the sense that we could and should have added another quality pitcher over the winter at less cost. We should have known we'd need one. Now everyone needs one and we are forced into a corner and to overpay. I don't want to sound like a whinner but I don't like the deal. I do think Pomeranz has a chance to continue nearly as well as his recent tiny sample size of success playing in a big park division, a laid back atmosphere and just 100 IP. He's a good pitcher with some upside potential still there, so I'm going to try to be optimistic. I'm going to still be a sox fan in 3 to 8 years- God willing!

But, but, but! We all knew our biggest weakness was pitching way before now. This should not have been a surprise that cause a panic move

He "forced" himself into the situation by believing in quantity over quality concerning the 3-5 slots of our rotation last winter. Your post seems to imply he had little to do with this situation arising.

When national services rank him #14 or there abouts, no grain of salt is needed.

We knew we needed pitching last winter, when the cost was lower and choices higher.

Umm, I think your list supports my position more than yours. These are the pitchers ranked 14 or higher: 6) Liriano 7) Billingsley 8) Verlander 10) Cain How about 2007? 1) Dice-K 4) P Hughes 5) H Bailey 10) Miller 11) Lincecum 16) Gallardo 2004? 2) Felix 7) Kazmir 13) Cain 16) A Miller 2008: 3) Chamberlain 4) Buchholz 7) Kershaw 8) F Morales 9) Bailey 10) D Price 15) Jake McGee 17) Wade Davis Yes, some did not do all that great, but many more did very well. Even the ones who did not do all that well may easily end up with a much better 5-8 initial years than Pomeranz will put up.

Well said, and how many 18 year old pitchers ever break into the top 14 rankings? This guy was a unique asset.

Certainly true, but 50% of Pedro for 4-6 years may blow away 2.4 years of Pomeranz.

My numbers on Pomeranz may be off as well. The second half of the season could make a difference, and it's his 2nd or 3 arbs next winter- not the first as is the case with Bogey.

$150K is a lot to a young kid with an uncertain future giving up a free ride education. I wonder where he'll be ranked in our system. After Kopech or Travis?

Not many 14th ranked pitchers fail. Besides, one could view Pomeranz as a "lottery ticket" as well. His record indicates there's a lot of risk involved by counting on him, as a lefty, moving to a new league, a new park, against new and stronger opponents to succeed (at least right away).

It's a tiny sampler size. Opps still have only a .690 OPS against Espi this year, so I'm not sure that the 4.08 ERA in just 70 IP is an indication of a major "struggle". Even if we want to call it a "struggle", the kid is only 18, and it's not a good idea to raise and lower an 18 year old's stock too much over a selected 70 IP stretch. In fact, Espi's stock, according to ranking services, has risen since last year. I hope this kid doesn't turn out to be the next Pedro, but we won't know for many years from now.

We had plenty of other good prospects, so I'm not sure it was absolutely necessary to part with Espi, Moncada or Beni to get a quality SP'er like DP with 2.4 years of control.

Yeah, I'm not an expert on arb projections, but often players get much less on their first arb year.

With Pomeranz in the fold, it certainly makes next year's budget easier to work with. We'll probably need one less SP'er now, and should have more money to acquire another SP'er and/or 1-2 RP'ers and maybe a big bat.

The Red Sox and first-round pick Jason Groome have agreed to terms on a $3.65MM signing bonus, reports Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports (via Twitter). The agreement, which is pending a physical, comes less than 24 hours before the deadline to sign 2016 draft picks. -Steve Adams

Updated with Pomeranz: Under contract for 2017 (7 players): $30M Price, $22M H. Ramirez, $20.6M Porcello, $19M Sandoval, $13.75M Pedroia, $10.5M Kimbrell, $6.5M Young. TOTAL: $123.35M (Note: Castillo's$10.25M Castillo and Craig's $6.2M contracts do not count on the luxury tax budget, if they remains off the 40 man roster.) Options ( 2 players): $13.5M Buchholz and $3.75M Hannigan TOTAL: $17.25M Arbs (9 players): Bogaerts:$650K > ~$3.5M (1st of 3) Bradley: $546K > ~$2.7M (1 of 4) Pomeranz $1.35M> ~$3.0M (2 of 3) Kelly: $2.6M>$2.5M (2 of 3 arbs) Ross: $1.25M> $1.5M (2 of 3) Holt: $606K > $1M (1 of 3) Leon: $minor > $800K (1 of 3) Layne: $564K> $700K (1 of 4) Rutledge: $minor> $700K (1 of 3) Workman: $540K > $600K (1 of 3) TOTAL ARBS: ~$17M TOTAL of 18 players: ~$158M ($141M without Buch and Hanigan) The 22 other players on the current 40 man roster (listed by seniority on the roster): Wright, Vazquez, Brentz, Betts, Hembree, Barnes, Coyle, Swihart, Shaw, E Rodriguez, Marrero, N Ramirez, B Johnson, Owens, Jerez, Light, Hernandez, Carson, Elias, Cuevas & LaMarre TOTAL: ~$12M Grand Total: $170M or $153M (No Buch/Hanigan) Now, add the $11M for player benefits and our Luxury Tax Total is... $181M or $163M That leaves us with about $9M to $26M to spend without going over the luxury limit as it is right now ($189M), however, the limit is expected to rise to over $200M and perhaps closer to $210M. That would mean we'll have between $20M and $30M, or if we dump Buch and Hanigan between $36M and $46M to spend on added salary and be close to the limit. That may appear like a lot of money, but finding a replacement for Papi (DH, 3B, LF or 1B) will not come cheap. We will probably also need a solid number 2 SP'er and at least 2 quality RP'ers to replace Uehara and Tazawa.

I'd have given Swihart instead of Espi as well. I'd also have traded Devers and Kopech instead. We may never know if the Padres would have accepted either.

His last 3 years have been in pitcher's parks. He's never won and held a slot in the rotation until this year, and that's during 6 years in the bigs. He's started 22 games once in his career. His second most before 2016 was 10. That being said, out of the 132 pitchers with 250+ IP since 2014, Drew places... 8th in ERA- at 73 (tied with Felix and Sale and Lester) 38th in xFIP- at 93 (just above Lackey and Porcello). I'm nota going to pretend to know more than Sox management. I don't like the trade, but certainly there is some evidence to show this guy has some talent. The juryw ill be out on this one for many years though.

Owens was never ranked as high as #14, especially while still in single-A. Pomeranz was traded for next to nothing this past winter. If the Sox liked this guy before 2016, they could have gotten him easily. So, his stock has really risen that much based on a tiny sample size of 100 IP? I'm not buying it.

I'm just not buying the fact that our scouts and management went from not liking Pomeranz enough to out bid the Padres (who acquired Pomeranz from the A’s for Yonder Alonso and Marc Rzepczynski) to thinking he's worth Espinoza now after just 100 IP more or experience. The more I think about it, the more I'm getting depressed. I'm with Hugh on this one. I'd rather have gone much larger to get someone more established and less risky.

I hate the theory that Espinoza is so far away from the bigs, we can afford to trade him. This kid was the best pitching prospect we've had since maybe Clemens.

Espinoza is a big overpay for a guy with just a half season of proven quality pitching. The Padres traded for this guy last winter for peanuts. Apparently, we didn't like him that much just 4-5 months ago.