moonslav59

I disagree. Dependable starters often face over 850 batters a year, while great "everyday" players get 650-750 PAs.

Tommy Harper was a 30/30 guys 2 years before coming to the Sox before 1972. He scored 104 runs that year with Milwaukee but had only 82 RBIs.

I'd rather have Quintana for 4+ years than Sale for 3+ years. He might require less in return.

Our team has had a good record acquiring journeymen/cheap OF'ers mid-season and off-season that have helped us out: de Aza Gomes & Cody Ross (maybe not that "cheap") Nava Podsednik M Byrd DMac to name a few. I agree, if Beni is not "ready", then find a cheap, experienced solution.

Small sample size.

Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post I get the idea of xFIP trying to separate thy luck from the game, but I feel it favors strike out pitchers over pitchers who get more batters out. I like to look at xFIP, but I value ERA-,WHIP & OPS against more. K/W ratio is typically a very good indicator of pitching success. Personally, I've always thought K's were over-rated. What good is it for Price to get all those K's, if batters are hitting him well, because he's always around or in the strike zone? Sox starters: WAR 2.9 Price 2.6 Porcello 2.3 Wright xFIP 3.25 Pricde 4.00 Porcello 4.31 Wright K-BB% 21.1 Price 16.1 Porcello 11.7 Wright Really? Do any of the above numbers really show who our best pitcher has been this year? While I do value WAR and xFIP, my favorite pitcher starts are ... ERA- 60 Wright 80 Porcello 101 Price and... WHIP 1.15 Wright 1.15 Porcello 1.28 Price OPS against .601 Wright .699 Porcello .745 Price I think my stats tell a better story of 2016. Let's look at 2014 to 2016 (250+ IP). Which list better represents who the top pitchers have been? (In order top down) A- Kershaw, Syndergaard, Stasburg, Arrieta, Carrasco, Kluber, Sale, deGrom, Price, Scherzer B- Kershaw, Arrieta, Greinke, Cueto, Sale, deGrom, Lester, Felix, Scherzer, Hamels C- Kershaw, Arrieta, Scherzer, Greinke, Sale, Bumgarner, Carrasco, Cueto, Tanaka, deGrom I think B is best followed by C. Answer: A is xFIP B is ERA- C is WHIP

One point I tried to make was that if we have to wait for Momcada to master 2B before thinking about moving him to the position we need him, it may take years, and we lose his ML bat waiting the extra time. Then I caught flack for suggesting we might have to DH him next year until he becomes good enough at 3B or LF. Getting him started at new position sooner rather than later made sense to me. Maybe he never gets good enough at any position to make DHing him less appealing, despite his physical attributes.

True. Just look at our near miss with Johan Santana. the thing I like about Sale and ai actually like Quintana more, is the age and cost over many years of team control. You are right though about risk. A

I get the idea of xFIP trying to separate thy luck from the game, but I feel it favors strike out pitchers over pitchers who get more batters out. I like to look at xFIP, but I value ERA-,WHIP & OPS against more.

...and all I said was that I felt Moncada should start practicing 3B soon. I never pretended to be a know it all- they were. Not every player has to follow normal protocol for changing positions after promotions. First, the tried to claim I didn't know what the protocol was, then they switched to trying to say I was acting like I knew more than Sox management. That was false as well. I gave my opinion that since Moncada was nearly ML ready and blocked by Pedey, we should start giving him reps at 3B or possibly LF soon. I wasn't calling for an immediate change. You'd think I was proposing anarchy! Call me a blind squirrel if you wish, but don't say I was wrong on this one.

come on! There was lots of information implying Moncada was close to MLB ready. You and others said the protocol was to not make a player start taking reps in practice so soon after a promotion. You and others made comments like that based on the same info. I said I thought he should start taking reps at 3B soon. You disagreed, but somehow you can twist it around to make you appear right. You guys were wrong. It's not a sign of weakness to admit it. It's actuAlly a sign of maturity.

Further evidence that these big FA signings rarely work out, and the whole theory that you get the value on the front end of these long term deals is often fantasy.

I don't think he should be our regular LF'er, so let's talk. The only position I am truly comfortable with Holt playing long term is 2B, and the only way that happens is if tragedy strikes. Even at 2B, Moncada will soon pass him on my preferred depth chart, if he hasn't already. I like Young (when healthy) better than Holt in any OF position. I like Benintendi (this second) better than Holt in the OF, but I'll defer to Sox management on his ML readiness status. Swihart, when healthy, is a close call. I like Shaw, Hernandez and Rutledge (and soon Moncada)better at 3B long term. I like Hernandez and Marrero at SS better at SS long term. I like HanRam & Shaw better at 1B long term. I'm not sure if Holt's bat can hold up long term at any or several positions. The jury is still out, but his trends of late season declines are concerning. All of this being said, the fact that Holt can play 7 positions in an emergency is immensely valuable, especially to a team with a FT DH. With all the injuries we've had, Holt is currently our best option as a starting OF'er. I am not a Brentz guy.

Plus, we already have so much financially invested in Moncada. I agree, he's about as untouchable as anyone on our roster, although I never view anyone as 100% untouchable.

For being 100% right? Man, you guys are tough.

I always thought Quintana was a more likely target as well.

...and Beni made his debut in LF...

...and, I caught flack for suggesting just such a plan to start just about now.

The fun is over... "SATURDAY,9:26pm: The White Sox aren’t motivated to trade either Sale or Quintana, multiple major league sources told Rob Bradford of WEEI.com. " - MLBTR

(Sarcasm alert) Isn't it great Holt can play 7 positions?

Word is Sale was pissed about the throw-back jersey for tonight's game. I'll still overpay for this guy--even by alot. This from MLBTR: SATURDAY, 7:52pm: The Rangers are currently unwilling to trade Mazara for Sale, but they’re open to dealing Gallo, Profar and some of their pitching prospects, per Sullivan. 3:06pm: Rangers outfielder Nomar Mazara is on Chicago’s wish list if it swings a deal with Texas involving Sale, reports Sullivan (Twitter link).

I'd call him up the second Sox management thinks he's ready. I think his defense is ready, and to me I feel his offense is already good enough to probably be as good or better than Brentz, LaMarre, Castillo or Ramos, but I defer to management's opinion.

The funniest incidents I remember about Manny was that I think he used the excuse "My grandmother died" to show up late to spring training about 5 or 6 times. I mean, how many grandmothers can anybody have?!?!

I'm not sure about that, but Youkilis deserved what he got that time Manny set him straight.