moonslav59

We did pretty good getting ERod for Miller, but I had hoped we went younger for Lester & Lackey.

Cashman did what I had hoped the Sox had done during the great purge. As it turned out, we won a ring in 2013, so it's hard for me to say I was right.

There are different ways to win. BTW, we have 5 with 8 or more HRs. The Yanks have 6.

I don't disagree, but sometimes there is an adjustment period for players coming back from a long time out for injury. I am not confident Pablo will show any improvement on defense, but I do think there is a sliver of hope he can/will. I'm fine with sticking with Rutledge for a few more games, but as of now, I'm not ready to piss away Pablo's contract. I also see a possibility that HRam might play 1B next year, and Pablo could DH vs RHPs, assuming he shows some life this year at the plate. That is probably a big assumption, but I'd like to see him get another chance. We could see this next year: 1B: HRam vs most RHPs/Tavis vs LHPs and some RHPs DH: Pablo vs most RHPs/ HRam vs LHPs and some RHPs 3B: Devers vs most RHPs and all LHPs/ Pablo vs a few RHPs This keeps Pablo off the feild on defense.

I could see myself giving up on Pablo in less than a month, but if Rutledge keeps playing, Pablo will never get a chance to show any sample size. I'm not for benching Rutledge after getting on bade 5 times, especially with a lefty going tonight, but I'd like to see Pablo get one more real shot before pissing away all that money.

Marrero and Rutledge have looked better, but better than horrible is not good either. Pablo has to start looking better on defense real soon, or I'm joining the DFA crowd. He is returning from injuries, so I'm cutting him a little bit more slack...for now.

Great point. I could see that sort of trade happening as well. Either with someone like Scott (assuming Smith and/or Thornburg return soon and look good at the deadline) going to a team in need of pen depth or by trading a Rule 5 protection candidate for int'l bonus money.

I'm getting closer to that opinion, but until I see Devers on the 25 man roster, I don't see Rutledge or Marrero as having a better chance at decency than Pablo. I'd keep all 3 options alive, until we have to choose.

It's hard to make these 3 for 1 deals right before the Rule 5 draft, as most teams are struggling to protect their best Rule 5 players and their 40 man roster players, so making this type of deal at the trade deadline makes more sense for two reasons: 1) We get a (rental) player or two that helps us win more this year. 2) We clear space on our 40 man roster for November's protection period, assuming Sox management sees a roster crunch forthcoming. (I'm not sure they do.)

More than Pablo, in my opinion, and he may agree to try his luck in the pen.

They still have many years of team control, but you're probably right. They'd want players with more upside potential: maybe two from Taylor, Longhi, Lin and Callahan. If we give up two for a rental, when the rental bolts, it leaves us with two more slots open to protect others. That's my point. The players are interchangeable.

If we need to go beyond 7 starters next year, we'll be just like we are this year: with someone like Kendricks, Velazquez or Owens as extended depth. It is concerning, but not out of the ordinary for the vast majority of ML teams- even contenders.

Like maybe Scott, Taylor and Lin? Or, Longhi, Marrero and Scott? (They will be losing Abreu this year.)

Soxprospects.com has this on Shepherd: Solid pitcher’s frame with minimal remaining projection. Good athlete.Began that season as a starter, but he suffered a forearm laceration on his pitching arm which caused him to miss three weeks and forced him back to the bullpen. Had Tommy John surgery after sophomore year of high school.

If both Callahan and Buttrey are protected, I'd be surprised, but I wouldn't be upset if they were chosen over Cozart, Maddux or Bautista. Assuming you are right about all these guys needing protection, I think the Sox might look to "clear up" space by making a 3 for 1 trade at the deadline--maybe with someone who has been on the 25 man roster already this year or prospects in need of protection but maybe looking like they are borderline being able to be protected. Maybe a trade like Scott, Callahan and Lin for Frazier.

How hard is it to find pitchers like Kendricks and Velazquez--our depth this year? We'll still have 6 solid starters: Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, Pom & Wright plus Johnson and maybe keep Elias, if he looks worth it. If we protect Beeks, he's ML depth by 2018. Maybe Shepperd, too. We could also re-convert Workman or Barnes back to starters. Granted, especially if Holt is done, our OF depth of just Danny Mars is frightening. I could see us signing a cheap one year 1B/OF type FA next winter.

Singing to the choir!

I could see a team trading an equal salary dump for him in hopes that a change of scenery might jump start his career. How about we eat the salary difference and trade Pablo, Owens and TBall for Matt Cain?

Keeps hitting? You mean like his one game sample size last night? He was 3 for 14 (.214) and 4 for 20 (.200) before getting on base 5 times last night. Nice to see him bring his OBP up from .316 to .357 in one game, but I'm not sure we can even count on his current .681 OPS to hold up playing close to FT until the deadline. He has a .690 OPS in his 3 years with the Sox. I may be the last one on this board who still views Pablo as our besst chance at nearing mediocrity at 3B this year, unless Devers joins the mix.

I agree, but if the 3B situation still looks like a total mess by the deadline, and Sox management does not want to promote Devers this yeaar, I could see us doing a lesser flashy deal for someone like Frazier or Plouffe that won't cost us top prospects.

I wouldn't either, but that's what it might take. Look what some teams got last year- like for C. Beltran: RHP Nick Green, RHP Erik Swanson, RHP Dillon Tate.

What I hate most is that because of ineptitude of Pablo, we are forced to play/keep someone like Marrero. He does not belong on a world championship team. There has to be an upgrade somewhere in the organization. Can we afford to sign Moreland and give him some at bats backing up Travis and Hanley? This of course assumes letting go of Young. We may add a FA bat (or keep Moreland), so that would shorten the Rule 5 protection list by one- no big deal to me, but I think it would only be for one year (see my answer to your tax question). I have faith that Devers and Travis will fill in nicely for Moreland and Young's bats, but we will have lost all OF depth with Young's departure and Holt's uncertainty. I doubt we keep Selsky around, and Danny Mars may not be considered ML depth, which begs the question: If he is not considered ML depth, who will draft him rule 5? And, if he is ML depth, then we can let Selsky go. Holt's health status also plays a role in our need to add OF depth. Can we afford to go over the luxury limit next year knowing we won't keep everyone after 2018 season, thus the penalty may not be as severe? Moon? Yes, if we stay under this year, I think the idea is to go over next year and maybe the following as well. I don't see us signing a big bat FA for more than a 1 year deal, unless we do not trust Travis or Devers as capable FT players and Pablo has not won a FT job by season's end. Our big tax crunch years begin in 2019, when we have to start extending, re-signing, or replacing, in kind, big named players. Devers must be given every opportunity to succeed in 2018. Let him bat 9th and have him focuse on improving defense. His offensive tools are there. Agreed, and I feel almost as strongly about giving Travis a shot at 1B. Betts, Beni, JBJ, Travis, Pedroia, Xander, Devers, Hanley, Vaz/Leon......Moreland, Hernandez, Rutledge, OF Sale, Price, Porcello, E Rod, Pom Kimbrel, Thornburg, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, Scott Pretty solid 25 You have Moreland replacing Holt. I assume you think Holt is finished with the Sox. Assuming Moreland finishes out the year doing well, I'd be fine with keeping him, but he'll want more money and more years, and I'm not sure we can give him what he wants/deserves. Instead, we may add a cheaper 1B/OF type player to give us the OF depth we need.

Callahan and Buttrey would not be missed. While both still have some promise, nobody sees them as becoming significant contributors at the ML level. Buttrey is now 24 and has shown no growth at all. Maddux is having a good season but is 26. He might be drafted, but again, our pen is so deep right now, I doubt he gets a chance in the next year or two, unless we trade some arms. Pimental is a steroid user who has slipped to #34 on soxprospects.com. Yeah, he has some promise, if ever gets his act straight, but I doubt someone will be willing to promote him to the big club for the full 2018 season. If he is drafted, and we lose him, I won't be upset in the least. Lin is having a good season. He's a nifty fielder, but before this season, he's had just one year (2015)with an OPS over .611. With Marco H, Marrero and Chatham onboard, I think we have SS depth covered well enough. If we trade a catcher, we may add Procyshen, but I doubt he'd be drafted anyways. You named 12 players to protect. That would be at least double the players we've ever protected from the draft. I just don't see it happening, but even if it did, I think we can clear room for at least 7 and still have ML ready depth where needed. Travis and Devers take Moreland & Youngs 25 man roster slots, and Abad's slot is easily filled. Bold = added to 40 man roster C: Vaz-Leon with Swihart AAA with maybe Romanski or Procyshen added 1B: Travis (HRam/Pablo/Holt) with Longhi in AAA and Ockimey far away 2B: Pedey-Rutledge (Holt) with Marco H AAA 3B: Devers-Pablo (Holt) with Marrero/Marco H AAA) SS: Bogey- Holt with Marrero AAA LF: Beni (Holt) CF: JBJ (Holt) RF: Betts (Holt) DH: HRam (Pablo) SP: Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, Pom, Wright RP: Kimbrel, Smith, Thornburg, Kelly, Hembree, Barnes That IS A SOLID 25. the rest of the 40 man... (I believe all will still have options.) 26 Swihart 27 Johnson 28 M Hernandez 29 Ross 30 Scott 31 Workman 32 Marrero 33 Taylor 34 Owens 35 D Hernandez-Rule 5 replaces Elias 36 Longhi - Rule 5 replaces Martin 37 J Beeks- Rule 5 replaces Kendricks 38 J Cozart- Rule 5 replaces Ysla 39 Maddux- Rule 5 replaces N Ramirez 40 Bautista or Mars- Rule 5 replaces Abad or Selsky Workman, Marrero, Owens and Taylor could all be traded in some sort of 3 for 1 deal or as straight-up trades for a prospects not needing rule 5 protection. Holt may retire or be traded, and we still have Marco, Rutledge and Marrero as IF depth, although our OF depth would remain very shaky. We may dump Pablo and gain another slot. Since we won't lose Holt AND Marrero, count them as one possible slot. Count Workman or Taylor as one more slot as one could be traded easily. We might want to keep Owens as ML ready depth, but I have to believe we could pick up a replacement level starter at any time that is as good as Owens and costs next to nothing. There's 3 slots not counting Pablo. That could, although I doubt we need to or will, allow us to protect 3-4 from this list: 1. Bautista or Mars (see #40) 2. Lin 3 & 4. (2 from) Buttrey, Callahan, TBall, Pimental, Diaz or Sheppard

We are now hitting, so it must be sucky pitching, right? Did Rutledge's OPS just double tonight?

It would be great, if Travis could play FT 1B next season and Devers FT 3B. HRam could DH and maybe play 1b in NL parks and Pablo could try and get some ABs at 3B, 1B and DH, if he's still around. The money "saved" by not having to replace Moreland and Young could cover arb raises and maybe go towards extending someone early, if possible. C: Vaz-Leon(Swihart AAA) 1B: Travis (HRam/Pablo) 2B: Pedey-Rutledge (or Marco AAA) 3B: Devers-Pablo SS: Bogey- Holt (or Marrero AAA) LF: Beni CF: JBJ RF: Betts DH: HRam (Pablo) SP: Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, Pom, Wright RP: Kimbrel, Smith, Thornburg, Kelly, Hembree, Barnes That could be a solid 25. the rest of the 40 man... (I believe all will still have options.) 26 Swihart 27 Johnson 28 Hernandez 29 Ross 30 Scott 31 Workman 32 Marrero 33 Taylor 34 Owens 35 Elias (or + D Hernandez-Rule 5) 36 Martin (or + J Callahan- Rule 5) 37 Velazquez (or + T Ball- Rule 5) 38 Ysla (or + Lin- Rule 5) 38 N Ramirez (or + J Cozart or T Buttrey- Rule 5) 39 +J Beeks (Rule 5) 40 + N Longhi (Rule 5) If we trade one of our catcherss, another slot opens for a rule 5 or a FA signing.