moonslav59

When are we going to finally have our complete line-up intact? I thought having 5 pitchers on the DL was enough bad luck.

If we hadn't traded for Pom & Kimbrel would you have liked, loved or just been okay with the Sale trade?

I can see your point, because I do think the trade tipped the balance of gutting the farm to much to the extreme, but to me, that was the fault of the Espi & Kimbrel trades, not this one. I get that this one happened afterwards, so in a sense this deal put us over the tipping point, but you just don't get chances like this very often. 3 years of control for a top proven ace at a low luxury tax and budget cost. I think these types of deals are a must. I hated losing Moncada and Kopech, but we did get Chris Freakin' Sale!

Some positives came out of the loss. We fought back hard. We should have the feeling "we're never out of it" from here on out. Pablo got a big hit. Moreland finally got a hit(s). On to the next game after a tough loss.

For the record, I am not for trading any more top prospects at this time. My scenario was a "what if" we'd tried one past trade instead of two others.

I find myself pulling hardest for Marco and Wright. I'm super high on ERod, JBJ, and of course Betts, but I often find myself pulling for the more unsung players.

I felt the same way about Vaz back then, too. He has "the look" of a great catcher. Leon looks like a plumber. An "average Joe". He's only about a year and half older than Vaz. It's hard not to pull for a guy like Sandy. I'm glad we have so many chances at hitting it good at the catcher position. I miss the VTek days.

Because Wright was a great starter last year. Two great reasons.

Holt at DH. Marco at SS. Does this mean Sox management views Marco as the better defensive SS, or is it Holt having the flu?

Well, with 3 years of team control, it would still be a great "get". Surely, sometimes are better than others. Plus, if we had Sale back then, and HanRam hit like he did in 2016, we might have made the playoffs.

Literally, his ass is gone!

He should never bat from the left side vs a LH'd starter either. If ever there was a platoon player, it should be Pablo. vs LHPs: 2015: .590 as LHB .142 as RHB (Yes, this number is correct. It was his OPS not his BA!) 2014: (No PAs as LHB) .563 as RHB 2013: (No PAs as LHB) .686 as RHB Holt hits LHPs very slightly better than RHPs, and when Rutledge is healthy, he'd be a better choice as well. Too bad Travis can't play 3B!

Exactly. But, I will add that I think when a guy like Sale comes available, any time is "the right time" to get him.

I have always been a huge Manny supporter. I wouldn't have cared if he took every ST'ing off: the guy could hit in his sleep! I just thought it was kind of funny that one guy could have 6 or 7 grandmas, let alone have one die seemingly every St'ing and ST'ing only! (LOL)

I expect Leon to have a bad streak here or there, like he did last September, but I'm not sure I'd have as quick a hook as I think some here will have, when that slump occurs. I think Leon may just be a streaky hitter, and we should "ride out" his slumps. Maybe sit him a few more games than normal, but I would be cautious with the "eject button". I do think we might end up trading Leon- not Vaz, but more and more I see Vaz's trade probability on a slight upward slant.

Old schoolers still see that as a big stat. It used to be the only one that defined a catcher's defense along with PBs (which is often a subjective call vs a WP). . CS% is important, but other factors are involved, for example, the Sox used to not hold runners at 1B as well as other teams, and at times, did not even pitch "from the stretch". This made VTek's CS% look worse than it otherwise would have been. I think pitch-framing & blocking the plate are at least as important, and handling the staff as the top asset a catcher can have, and that's a very hard skill to quantify and measure, but it's there (IMO). BTW, here are the career CS%s: Leon 44% (45% minors) Vaz 44% (37% minors) Swi 28% (39% minors) lgCS% Swi 32% Leon 30% Vaz 28% I may be missing something here, but I don't see a striking difference between anyone.

I'm super high on ERod. He could become ace material as soon as this year. What a boost that would be. I've also been very high on Wright for years. I love the knuckleball and think it messes with hitters' timing - sometimes for a few games afterwards. I like Pom, too, but I think I just like these other two more. (No, it has nothing to do with hating the idea of trading Espi for a risky #3 type.)

Many people claimed Leon's BAbip last year was unsustainable, and I agree, but I never felt like he was going to totally revert to his "old self", since a good chunk of his uptick in BAbip was due to his huge increase in LD% and hard hit %. That is something that can, at times, be sustained. Stat Career (including 2016) vs 2016 BAbip .337 .392 LD% 22.4% 24.7% (never above 18.8% before 2016) Hard% 25.2% 31.3% (never above 21% before 2016) I seriously doubt Leon ends up with an OPS above .800, and I wouldn't bet on .750 either, but there is no reason to think he can't do much better than he was before 2016. On Leon's defense vs Vaz, the sample sizes for both are so small, and much of catcher defense is hard to quantify (see the whole CERA debate), but in my opinion Leon and Vaz are about even on defense. Vaz is probably a little better on pitch-framing and he may end up being better at throwing out runners, but CS% is over-rated. Leon does a great job blocking bad pitches and handling the staff. He may be slightly better than Vaz in those two areas, as of now. Both still have room to improve on defense, and one could pass the other at some point, but I think they are pretty even right now on defense. I've always been super high on Vaz, but more and more, I'm beginning to think he may end up being the odd man out, when Swihart makes his case for the 25 man roster. I still am clinging to a probable false hope, and I'm not even sure if I'm on board with my own idea, that at some point, we could go with 3 catchers, if we can find significant time for Swihart at DH, LF, 1B or 3B. I'm not against the idea of giving Swihart every chance to win the catcher job, and I'm not for teaching him how to play 1B or 3B just yet or improve his OF skills, but the thought is still in the back of my mind. If we ever have a need at DH this year, I'd bring Swihart up, unless Travis is on fire.

And, I thought MLB lowered the K zone a while back.

Assuming the CWS would flip Pom to another team, I still doubt it. We'd probably have to add Travis to just get them to listen, and our farm would complete it's move from 1st to 30th in a very short time.

Looking to next year's 25 man roster, could we possibly not replace Young and Moreland from outside the system? (We might also replace Rutledge- perhaps with Hernandez.) Two of these four players could fight for the 1B, 3B, DH and/or 4th OF'er slots: 1B Travis 3B Hernandez 1B/DH/3rd C/4th OF/3B???: Swihart 3B: Devers (Pablo could move to 1B and/or DH with HanRam to take Moreland's slot, if Travis does not beat out Hernandez, Swihart, Devers for a spot on the 25, and someone else looks netter at 3B than he would be at 1B.) 14 players vying for 13 slots (assuming Rutledge is out): Betts RF JBJ CF Beni LF Bogey SS Pedey 2B Ramirez DH/1B Pablo 1B/DH/3B Leon C Vaz C Swihart C/LF/1B/DH/3B? Hernandez 3B/SS/2B Holt 2B/3B/OF/SS/1B Travis 1B Devers 3B By position C: Leon/Vaz (Swihart) 1B: Pablo/HanRam (Travis/Swihart) 2B: Pedey/Holt (Hernandez) 3B: Pablo/Hernandez/Devers (Holt/Swihart) SS: Bogey/Hernandez LF: Beni/Swihart CF: JBJ (Holt) RF: Betts (Holts) DH: HanRam/Pablo (Platoon?) Maybe Pablo plays 1B vs RHPs and sits vs lefties. HanRam plays 1B vs LHPs and DHs vs RHPs. (Perhaps Travis plays 1B vs LHPs and HanRam DHs FT. Maybe Swihart gets in the mix here to find him playing time.)

They had pretty similar resumes until last year. It's pretty amazing we got both. My biggest "what if" that can never be answered is (at the risk of beating a very dead horse once again) whether or not we might have been able to get Quintana along with Sale by adding players from trades theoretically not made: Espinoza, Margot, Guerra, Allen and Asuaje or mix and match with one or two from Groome, Devers, Travis or Dalbec. For argument's sake, let's say we signed Clippard and traded scraps for KRod instead of trading for Kimbrel, and nixed the Espi trade. Then, maybe gave up Espi, Margot, Guerra, Allen and Asuaje for Quintana, we'd have this rotation right now: Sale Price Quintana Porcello ERod/Wright But our closer would be much more in doubt. Okay- horse beaten again.

I feel the same, except for Manny, who took time off from 5 or 6 ST'ings due to his 5 or 6 grandmas that died. (It seemed that way, didn't it?)

This is getting scary bad. They should put our starters in quarantine to keep them away from the bug.

True, but he used to actually be an average to plus defender, and he's still south of 31. UZR/150 was +2.2 from 2008-2014 23rd out of the top 46 in innings at 3B 29th out of 61 with 1,500+ innings at 3B I'll take slightly below average, if he can gives us an .800 OPS. (He was at +4.0 from 2008-2012 which placed him 23rd out of 60 with 1000+ innings.)