moonslav59

He was make believe.

We have a nice core of players to build around, especially if Sale, Price & Eovaldi give us something after the year off to rebuild. That is not impossible, given than none will be older than 34 or 35. Betts (if re-signed) Bogey Devers Beni Vaz ERod Chavis Maybe DHern, Chatham, Dalbec... Add some serious FA signings, and I think 1 year is possible. Likely? Maybe not, but possible, yes.

I was speaking about just the starting pitchers, and specifically about games letting up 5 or more runs per start.

Why trade Chavis? He's not even arb eligible until after the rebuild should be over. If the rebuild is for 2022, then look to trade everybody who is not expected to be a plus in 2022 and/or beyond. Chavis would be a keeper. We could try to trade Price, Sale, Eovaldi and JD by paying significant portions of their remaining salaries and get some prospects and future budget space for FA signings, but the most likely rebuild trades would involve players who will be free agents after 2020 and 2021. After 2020: Betts JBJ Wright Workman After 2021 ERod Barnes Hembree We also lose Pedey's contract after 2021 ($13.75M on luxury tax budget). Price and Eovaldi's contracts end after 2022 (Beni, & Marco too.)

There sure have been some doosies on these sites.

So, it has happened. I thought it could have happened with Lester, but the Cubs bid was much more. I wanted to do it with Andrew Miller, but he got way overpaid, too. If we want to rebuild and reset in 2020, trading Betts makes a ton of sense. We could look to spend big for 2021- maybe even going $39M over the limit, which could include signing Betts back.

Since 2003, our highest ranked pitchers on soxprospects.com have been: Jorge de la Rosa 3 Jon Lester 1 Manny Delcarmen 8 Abe Alavarez 3 Jonathan Papelbon 1 Clay Buchholz 1 Michael Bowden 3 Justin Masterson 1 Daniel Bard 3 Casey Kelly 1 Felix Doubront 3 Anthony Ranaudo 2 Allen Webster 3 (via trade) Ruby de la Rosa 5 (via trade) Matt Barnes 2 Henry Owens 2 ERod 1 (via trade) Brian Johnson 5 Anderson Espinoza 3 Michael Kopech 5 Jay Groome 1 Tanner Houck 4 Bryan Mata 2 Jalen Beeks 5 Mike Shawaryn 5 D Hernandez 2

Thanks. My favorite players have often been far from the best. I became a Sox fan after being a Brewer & Tommy Harper fan when I lived in Milwaukee as a child. When Harper was traded to the Sox at the same time I moved to Maine, I switched to being a Sox fan. Harper had 1 good year with the Sox and was treated poorly due to the color of his skin, but he remained my fave until his time with the Sox was over. I also loved Luis Aparicio at that time. My next favorite players were: Bill Lee Luis Tiant Rick Burleson Orlando Cepeda Dwight Evans Fergie Jenkins Oil Can Boyd Ellis Burks Greg Harris Carlos Quintana John Valantin Tim Wakefield (I used to throw a knuckleball in softball) Tom Gordon Pedro Martinez Jason Varitek Rich Garces Manny Ramirez Bill Mueller Alex Gonzalez Alex Cora Adrian Beltre Daniel Nava Jose Iglesias Koji Uehara Jackie Bradley Junior Chris Freakin' Sale Rafael Devers Marco Hernandez

I'm extremely thankful for the ring and 3 first place finishes in a row by DD's teams, but if we are really going to look to rebuild, I'm thinking maybe DD's time may be up.

He was "brutal" in his first 2 seasons with the Sox (one with just 107 PAs and the other 423). .196 4 40 in 530 PAs) .548 OPS He was pretty darn good in his next two seasons: .262 36 130 (891 PAs) .834 OPS His next 3 seasons saw some God awful slumps, but he's been over .700 every yeart, and I don't consider that "brutal." .235 42 164 (1487 PAs) .719 OPS If you combine his last 5 years: .245 78 294 (2378 PAs) .762 OPS At 650 PAs, that's .245 20 76 (.762) JBJ has been frustrating as hell to watch. It seems like the whole world knows he can be a plus hitter, if he goes the other way, but he keeps falling into deep ruts of trying to pull every pitch for a HR. He's been my favorite Sox player, but it hasn't been easy watching him hit.

Let's just go with a 17 man pitching staff and pitch everybody 2 innings every 3 days.

Another 5+ runs allowed start. We must lead the league. Man, we suck badly!

Most rebuilds take 2 or more years. My guess is the Sox might try to do it in 1 year. Remember when we traded AGon, CC and Beckett. It wasn't about what we got in return: it was about clearing budget space for a quick rebuild and a ring in 2013. Remember when we trade 4 our our SP'ers (Lester, Lackey, Peavy & Doubront) plus Andrew Miller? Did we trade them for far away prospects? No, we ended up getting Porcello via Cespedes, ERod, Kelly and Hembree... and a quick turn around to winning the division and a ring a few years later. I could see us trading Betts and maybe re-signing him or not. If we ever decide to do that (doubtful), then we might as well trade everyone not under control for 3 or more years. I doubt we go that route. I doubt we do as I suggest: reset next year and work hard to get competitive by 2021- perhaps with Betts signing with us after the budget tax is reset.

My guess is, after Weber's next outing, you will no longer mention him.

MLB.com released their top 15 farm system list:' MLB farm system rankings 2019 WWW.MLB.COM There's a reason that every time a new general manager gets hired, he preaches the goal of building a strong farm system. Developing homegrown talent is the most efficient way of constructing a winning big league club, by graduating youngsters to the Majors or using them in trades for more These top 15 teams are contenders for the playoffs this year: 2. TBR 3. LAD 7.ATL 8. MN 12. CLE These are not: 1. SD 4. MIA 5. AZ 6. DET 9. CWS 10. TOR 11. SEA 13. BAL 14. TEX 15. PIT

I don't pay those numbers any attention, but my guess is they make harmony very happy.

I'd rather have someone better, too, and this isn't about DHern vs Johnson. There will be room for both and 2-3 scrubs worse than them. Our pitching depth sucks. It is going to be extremely difficult to fill out the 2020 roster with decent players from the 20-40 slots. We used 26 pitchers this year. Johnson is a hell of a lot better than many of those 26. Look, I don't think we reset next year. I think we should, but I'm pretty sure we won't. That being said, if you guys think Henry is going to okay a massive spending winter to replace guys like Johnson, Velazquez, Hembree, Brewer, and others, I think a rude awakening awaits you. I'm no Johnson fan. I've suggested trading him dozens of time. I agree he has no serious upside, but he has shown he can do okay as a starter. He has a 4.04 ERA as a starter over the past 2 seasons. That's not someone you just DFA., especially when we have a rotation that looked so horrible this season. I have more faith in DHern, but he is a huge question mark. He has way more upside than Johnson, but Johnson's floor is higher, and there's plenty of room for both on the 2020 roster. Assuming Porcello does not return, and we use 20+ pitchers next year, can you name 20 guys who are more likely to do better than Johnson next year? (If you do, what about 25 pitchers- the amount we used this year, not counting Nunez.) 9 Clearly better than Johnson: Sale, Price, ERod, Eovaldi Workman, Barnes, Walden, Hembree, Taylor 5 Maybe better: Brewer, Wright, Lakins, Brasier, DHern 6 Maybe worse: Weber, Velazquez, Shawaryn, DReyes, THouck, Feltman 5 Clearly worse: JSmith, Poyner, ERamirez, TKelley, KHart Even if you think all the pitchers in the "maybe worse" list are better than Johnson, we would likely need 21 pitchers, and Johnson would be #21. You don't DFA guys like Johnson, unless and until we know we have better choices. I doubt we sign 5 pitchers this winter that are better than Johnson.

Yes, but for argument's sake, how much would you pay Price for the next 3 years? Take that amount and subtract it from the $96M he is owed, and the value of -$45M doesn't seem way off.

We could have gotten Lester back, but I have no examples. I like the idea of us being the first.

We could trade someone like Price by paying close to half his pay, but how much would that help? It might help us reset.

Well put. Yes, the problem is not with our arbs, except maybe JBJ. To reset, we will have to let several arb players go or trade a big contract.

No, it will always just be opinion, but if Cora ends up with the best winning % and has more rings than Tito, a strong case could be made. Plus, for Cora to win again, it will likely be with a totally different team.

Yes, I thought this was going to be a 100 win team. That does not mean I thought it would be a cakewalk, since the Yanks and Astros were 100 win teams, too. How good other teams are matter when thinking "cakewalk".

Based on just his last outing. Johnson did fine the start before and most of last year. That's a heck of a lot better than Weber, Shawaryn, Velazquezx and others have shown in spot starts. He got hurt this year, too. I'm not hopeful BJ will be a solid starter for us, but I have more faith in him as our 5th starter this year and next than anyone else, including D Hernandez.

I liked the AGon trade and extension. Yes, he did hit for a career best BA one year, but he did not meet expectations and quickly declined after the trade. Are you saying we should have kept the faith with a guy that was part of the whole malaise team? I was a JD Drew defender based mostly on his defense, but the guy did not seem to have "club house" attitude. JD declined from last year. I never said the signing was a mistake. I'm glad he is still on the team, despite a huge decline in run production this year.