Maxbialystock

Great discussion about trades in the last 2 or 3 pages!!! I have said repeatedly that giving up Sale--and paying $17M of his salary this season--and signing Giolito for 2 years and $36M and getting Grissom (for Sale) from the Braves were all stupid. But I now agree that six months ago there was indeed a rationale for all 3 moves/trades and that no one could have foreseen that Sale would be so good this season and that Giolito would miss this entire season after undergoing almost-TJ surgery. Correction: I think the Braves saw that Sale could be good this season. And maybe the real point is that, last night's horrible start by Pivetta notwithstanding, the Sox rotation this year has been pretty good without Sale and without Giolito. I also think the recent quote from Cora is important. He wants the front office to make some trades to help this Sox team this season. Right now the Sox offense is ranked 12th in MLB in runs scored and 6th in team OPS. So maybe a good righty bat would help if one is obtainable. However, the Sox team ERA, which was 1st/best in MLB for most of the first two months of this season, is now 8th. So one or more good arms would also be useful.

You are of course entitled to say almost anything within some pretty wide boundaries. That said, I can't remember you ever contributing anything positive about the Sox. But of course I'm 2 years older than the guy who lost the debate last night.

What a relief! However, I think I'll back off of starting game threads for awhile. I've also been talking up the rotation a lot, as well as the bullpen. So maybe less of that too. Defense: nope, can't talk about that.

Finally you agree with me. I've been saying that for a month--that DD was about to break the bank at monte carlo--and that's why JH dumped him. And that's also why right now JH is delighted that his basically no-name roster is in the hunt for the postseason. I'm sure he's still pissed about paying $17M to Sale while he is pitching brilliantly for the Braves, also the wasted Story contract, ditto the Yoshida contract, and the stupid $36M for Giolito for one season (and we won't know until next year whether he is "good" for that season).

Vazquez (5.10) vs. Pivetta (4.06), both righties Six lefty bats tonight: Duran CF Hamilton 2B Abreu RF Devers 3B O'Neill LF Yoshida DH Wong C Smith 1B Rafaela SS SB's too: Hamilton 21, Duran 20, Rafaela 10, Abreu 7

Please reread what I wrote. 2019 was a disappointment, but the real grabber was that the very expensive 2019 Sox with the biggest payroll in MLB were going to need a large infusion of cash. First and foremost, Betts was about to be a free agent and the Dodgers were willing to provide a very competitive package. Second, Price and Sale had long and expensive contracts but were no longer viable starters. Price's cumulative WAR after 2019 was 1.2. Sale's (not including this season) was 2.7. So, in addition to paying them for several more years, John Henry would need to give DD a bunch more money to replace them in the rotation.

I like "abject disappointment" because I think it describes how John Henry felt. It could explain why he soured on DD and the notion that, to keep Mookie and replace Price and Sale, the Sox payroll, then the highest in MLB, would need to get a lot bigger.

Sale's old, Grissom's young, but I agree the deal currently looks really stupid. On the other hand, the Sox pitching, halfway through the season and without Sale, Giolito, or Whitlock, has the 6th best ERA in MLB, 3.54, which is the lowest Sox team ERA in the John Henry era. However, the 2007 Sox ERA was ranked 2d in MLB and the 2017 Sox ERA was ranked 4th in MLB. I think there can be no question the Sox would be better off with Sale and without Giolito (or Grissom). However, Atlanta was prepared to give Sale a 3 year contract, and I understand the Sox reluctance to do so.

The Sox won the bullpen game vs Cincinnati, won the next game (when Campbell gave up 3 ER's vs the Jays), and then lost to the Jays because Bello had an awful start, 7 ER in 2.1 innings. Cora's managing in all 3 games was faultless. Indeed, in the game Bello lost, Winckowski pitching 6 innings, giving up 2 runs and throwing 91 pitches. He is now in the rotation replacing Criswell. So is Bello. And the bullpen is rested.

Yesterday Casas took 20 swings in the batting cage at "75%." Now he hopes to get in a rehab game in 2 weeks, so the 2 July target is OBE. I think the Sox are being cautious--as they should be.

Sighted Campbell, sank same.

Absolutely fair statement. I think my point is still valid. High-priced players aren't necessarily terrible, but they do carry risks.

Looks like you're right and I misspoke.

Romy Gonzalez, whose WAR is currently +0.7 after just 26 games. Valdez is -0.3.

Was he for or against day games at Fenway? Was he the one who thought day games affected his ability to see pitches?

Good point. For the Sunday night game, clearly no say. But last night, why wouldn't they? Of course, the Sox and Jays front offices would probably vote for a night game to ensure better attendance.

I have to be honest and say I'm skeptical of most trades, and here's why. Story, Yoshida, Giolito, Sale, and maybe even Whitlock (with his new contract) were questionable investments. But right now, without those players, the Sox are in the hunt for the postseason. Indeed, the loss of starters Sale, Giolito, and Whitlock has resulted in the best Sox rotation in a long time. Five years ago the 2019 Sox had the highest payroll in MLB and were loaded with talent: Mookie, Devers, JDM, Bogey, Vazquez, Leon, JBJ, Beni, Moreland, Holt, ERod, Workman, Sale, Price, Eovaldi, Porcello, et al. They won 84 games and did not make it to the postseason. In the latter half of the 2019 season DD was going to John Henry and telling him, "boss, I know we have the highest payroll in Baseball, but I need a bunch more money to keep Mookie and replace Sale and Price in the rotation while continuing to pay them." Now here we are five years later, Devers is the only player left from the 2019 Sox, and the Sox are relying heavily on a bunch of no-names who are doing better than the 2019 Sox.

Sox had to do it last Sunday night after the game when they flew to Toronto. 2 hour flight. But it's not smart.

My MLB app now says the Casas MRI was "clean" and that today he swung in the batting cage with roughly 75% effort. I think that means Casas and the Sox medical staff are feeling pretty good but aren't sure how this will turn out.

I went to my mlb app which knows all and learned-- Game will be made up on Aug 26 as part of a split double header. My app also says the Casas MRI was "clean" and that today he swung in the batting cage with roughly 75% effort. I think that means Casas and the Sox medical staff are feeling pretty good but absolutely, positively aren't sure how this will turn out.

OK, fine. I'm not at all sure Casas is through. I'm also not sure about his recovery, which basically consists of letting his body restore itself without, as far as I know, any medical procedure.

Game suspended. Jays play the Yankees tomorrow in Toronto. So why this was a night game is anyone's guess.

My NOAA map says they aren't going to get this game in. After this current batch of rain, bigger one is right behind.

What's also interesting that the guys ahead of them, the guys Cora is already playing--Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, Casas (when he gets back), Hamilton, Gonzalez, Wong, et al--are in their first or second year in MLB and doing reasonably well. So hats off to the Sox drafters and especially to the Sox minor league clubs.

That sounds like sarcasm directed at me, and I'm fine with it.