jung

Calling Bench Coach Cora the "architect", not naming players other than retired player Beltran while claiming that players were the driving force behind the cheating in Houston and shaping a narrative that Hinch WAS in effect the bystander in all of this IS throwing Cora under bus. Was Cora the Manager in Houston and Hinch the Bench Coach or was it the other way round? Are we saying that Hinch could not have stopped that dead in its tracks before it ever got off the ground if he wanted to? IMO, the Houston Report stinks to high heaven and I am doubtful about the integrity of the Boston Report once we see it just based on the odor coming off the Houston Report.

As to my earlier contention about this whole issue of in game, real time use of video and electronics in order to cheat being more widespread than a couple of teams and a few bad apples, I would offer the following. Do we think that if any other set of teams had made it to the post season that MLB would NOT have inserted MLB personnel into those video rooms? I would say that it would not have mattered. Regardless of which teams showed up for the 2018 and 2019 post season, MLB would have inserted MLB personnel into those video rooms and if that is not true, MLB is truly lost in its own blizzard of PR nonsense.

Quite likely. The point is the Sox did not need to muddy the water with all that Press Conference crap. On the one hand posters are contending that it was Press Conference crap and then buying the arguments wielded in the Press Conference as if they made a hill of beans of sense. The arguments presented in that Press Conference went directly to the Sox "logic" for parting ways with Cora. Either they know what Cora's penalty will be for Houston or they don't. Suppose its a year suspension and we ultimately discover that the Houston Bench Coach is just being thrown under the bus, a convenient scapegoat for players and possibly Hinch and possibly Management personnel above Hinch. If its a year suspension you likely want an interim coach. Now you could make the case that even if Cora is being made the scapegoat he is tainted enough to make it impossible for him to go forward were it not for what we have to acknowledge as likely. The Sox players likely to a man would want Cora back and would play for him. That the Sox contend that they asked their Field Manager and a member of their Management team NOTHING regarding the 2018 Sox before parting company with him makes the least sense of all yet that is in fact what Sox Management contended in that Press Conference. I still don't know the sense to having any Press Conference at all other than in the name of tailoring the narrative. Just announce you have parted company.....PERIOD. Has all of that tailoring spared Sox Management any media pressure for answers or if anything has it not exacerbated their issue with Media on this topic? I would say, exacerbated as it has finally occurred to Media that the Press Conference made no sense. Now if in fact Sox Management actually knows what was going on in its own organization whether from Cora or not and its not pretty THEN its a done deal. Cora has to be gone regardless of what the Sox players think of him and on balance how good a field general (in 21st century terms) he might be.

If MLB conducts actual investigations as opposed to shaping and tailoring campaigns I suspect they would discover upon sticking their heads up out of the sand that there are a number of teams that are not clean.

IMO, at least as it relates to the video rooms its the perceived benefit of replay which as implemented by MLB is an abject failure. That there are these other issues with the video rooms are just more reason to get real time in game video sponsored by MLB out of the hands of the teams. It would not be rocket science to isolate any proprietary cameras from real time in game feeds to teams whether they own the camera systems or not. Eliminate the MLB feeds to the teams and bury teams under a mountain of hurt if they are caught using in game real time feeds from proprietary camera systems. In addition, come up with something better than visual or audible signs between battery mates.

Likely indeed though not very encouraging certainly not based on that Fenway two step press conference. Also likely though not very encouraging.

The complete insanity of the manner in which the Sox handled this including that idiot press conference is finally starting to dawn on Boston Media when it fact it should have been immediately obvious: - Made no sense to "part ways" with Cora simply on the strength of the Houston Report no matter how damning - Also made no sense to claim that Sox upper management made no effort to understand from Alex himself if there was in game real time use of video and electronics to steal signs here. Alex was their employee and a member of Management at the point immediately before they cut ties with him. That they were so uncurious as to not ask made them look like three monkeys up there in that press conference. Now there is surely a Separation Agreement between Alex and the Sox and we are not going to find out the specifics of that Separation Agreement. However any chance of the Sox finding out more from Alex than they knew before parting ways is ZERO and ZERO. Questions abound: - do we really believe that the Bench Coach was the ring leader in Houston no matter what the damned Houston report claims is probably the first question of interest. - do we believe the cockamamy horse crap of the press conference - do we believe it possible that Sox parted company with Alex simply on the strength of the Houston Report - do we believe that upper management and ownership everywhere are not part of Manfred's efforts to tailor these "investigations" to an outcome Either the Sox did ask Alex and were unsatisfied with his answer or they didn't ask him and cut ties with him anyway or they knew all along what was going on and didn't ask Alex because they didn't need to ask Alex. Then the simple fact that they spent the entire press conference asking Boston fans to delay passing judgement until the Boston Report comes out looks suspicious as all get out.

I prefer the politicians stay out of this completely. I would also prefer that MLB get wise to itself. A number of the changes it has itself compelled forward are Bull s***. Replay is Bull s*** as implemented and look what that has yielded. Going overboard on the rocket ship baseball is Bull s***. All of these idiot promotions that require a new game jersey and a new opportunity to sell official game jerseys are Bull s***. Player's weekend is Bull s***. Home Run derby as implemented is Bull s***. Geeks actually running baseball games is Bull s***. Their stupid plastic bases which actually represent a hazard to players are Bull s***. League games half way around the world in the middle of the championship season are Bull s***. Players on "competing" teams constantly referring to each other as "Brother" as in Union Brother is Bull s***. Even the way they handle Jackie Robinson day is designed to just irritate the piss out of you. Just put a big number 42 on their torso's and let them wear their normal numbers on their back. Its just an endless steam of Bull s*** all of which has contributed to 4 hour boring baseball games which is the ultimate in Bull s*** with no entity in baseball including the PA caring a rats ass. Almost a decade ago I became ashamed taking my kids to Fenway Park as in what the f*** are we doing here. That from an ex-season ticket holder. Why am I wasting my kid's time with this crap. I could teach them more about how the Pro game is actually played watching enough TV broadcasts and at least we are home and not trapped at Fenway for a period of time that now feels like Purgatory. If it feels like Purgatory to me or at least if I can see my kids are just humoring me ("well Dad brought us here thinking this would be fun and we love dad. We will just have to endure this whatever it is"), I can just imagine what it must feel like to somebody that really does not understand the intricacies of the game just watching what must look like a Bataan Death March in progress.

Whoops...request made by Illinois congressman for the House to investigate the MLB cheating scandal which the House can do because of MLB's anti-trust exemption. That might light a fire under MLB. They want the politicians into this like they want a proctology exam.

It might but I seriously doubt even MLB is THAT stupid. Suspending the players en masse will likely force a lawsuit out of the PA. MLB does not want the PA getting on the wrong side of this issue as MLB itself does not have the guts to deal with this. The Owners don't want to deal with it either. IMO MLB and actually WE have to depend on the PA to step to the plate and deal with inorganic cheating, real time in game use of video and electronics to cheat some players to the benefit of other players. The pressure has to come from the PA. Sports media won't do it either. Sports media is as bad as Political media. "Lets not make thinks seem too bad or we might all lose are meaningless talking head TV jobs". IMO, the PA is our only hope. If they can't stop this, just stop playing the games. Its a farce at that point. Its almost a farce as it is now.

I don't object to the DH. I object to one league playing with one and one league playing without one. Its all supposed to be MLB. This is another mess MLB has allowed to fester to the point of stupidity. Pitchers have enough to do just to pitch IMO which is why most of them can't hit worth crap. Once they get to professional ball all of their time goes to protecting and optimizing their ability to pitch. When you look at what the rest of us stiff everyday players do in the game it only makes sense. Like I posted earlier, no love lost between me and pitchers. However the whole game falls on its face without pitchers doing what pitchers do. The rest of us live and die revolving around the pitcher. In comparison the rest of us are standing around chewing on our gloves waiting to get back to the batters box. Even the guys who happen to be really good fielders live to get back to the batters box.

The Houston Report claims the system was designed mainly to benefit the players. The players should be named PERIOD! If there is a video and audio of an Astro's player at the plate while trash can banging occurs that player should be named. This should not even be a decision.

If you cannot even censure the guilty what are they doing? Why suspend anybody if they can't even censure the rest of the guilty. Suppose there were some players that did not participate. What, they get to be thrown under the bus with everybody else? I don't care if the guilty have to wear that distinction for the rest of their careers or not. POOR BABIES! As for being completely uncurious in upper management with what was going on with their own team that is the oldest dodge in the book. What is upper management being paid for, to choose next month's bobble-head? That is Mike Pence claiming he just has no idea why his trip to Ukraine for Zalinsky's inauguration was canceled. Has anybody even asked upper management the question about the trash can banging? "What did you think of all that banging coming from your tunnel during home games?" No ....no interest in the answer? None of the other teams questioning the trash can banging is an interesting question all its own. But again, my personal feeling on where dead between the ears baseball is at this point is that they are all uncurious about what the f*** that trash can banging was about possibly because there has been and is so much Organic cheating in baseball. But there is the rub. The apparent inability for anybody to fully grasp the difference between Organic cheating (loading the baseball, too much pin tar on the bat, corking the bat etc), Organic Sign stealing which is not even against the rules of baseball and the systematic in game real time use of electronics and video to steal signs is breathtaking for its obliviousness and complete willingness to shove just anything under the carpet. Media appears remarkably uncurious in this as well. I am more inclined to think that if there was a real investigation as opposed to an effort to shape the result, the chances that everybody but a few guys escapes is far less than that at some level everybody in that Houston Organization knew. All the players that participated should be called out by name. I don't see how anybody could argue otherwise.

Upper Management, Ownership and the players. Protecting Upper Management creates a firewall between field and general management and Ownership. Guys banging on a trash can in the tunnel and neither Upper Management or Ownership has a question about that???? MY ASS. As for the players, they could not suspend them and they likely could not fine them. But they could sanction them. They should have been called out by name, each and every one of them if each and every team member was involved in some way. Hard to imagine that the core of that batting order if not the entire batting order 1-9 was not involved up to their eyeballs. Who was banging on the trash can in the tunnel? I want names. I could imagine some of the bench players just not playing along. Its not hard to review the video and audio feeds from games and see who was at the plate when signaling (trash can bashing) was going on. Ultimately, they should have been able to review enough audio and video to find players simply not willing to play along. If you find a player never at the plate when the trash can banging is going on you can safely assume he has told his mates that he wants nothing to do with it. Maybe there were no players not willing to play along. But its not something impossible to figure out. If as a player I said to my mates, look I don't want anything to do with this and they continued to signal me as a means of making sure it was sink or swim for everybody, they are gonna' have a hard time with me. If it means we fight it out in the tunnel from clubhouse to dugout well fine. But you are not going to drag me into something I specifically said I did not want to be a part of. Trade me, bench me, fight me in the tunnel but you're not dragging me into a team wide in game real time video and electronics cheating scam I don't want to participate in. The players involved should have to wear that as well as Cora, Beltran and Hinch and the GM and I remain unconvinced that upper management at the least did not wonder what the Christ was going on. I don't want to hear about any Omerta' BS either. Omerta' helps hide the guilty and punishes the innocent. Its BS. Its BS in cycling and BS anywhere else in sports.

Well they have to replace Medoza with somebody. She has already lost her ESPN gig. I would contend that she lost it for all the wrong reasons. But she is out.

We don't have to wait for the Boston Report to know that Manfred is tailoring this to an outcome. We can see it in the Houston Report: - the Houston report completely exonerates Ownership and Upper Management which basically firewalls Ownership - No active players named or suspended or sanctioned in any way when we know PLAYERS in the batters box knew what to listen for to get the signs and in some instances it was PLAYERS in the dugout walkway banging on a trash can. One "retired" player called out. Whoopdie-dingdong! So sorry but Manfred has already proven lacking before we even get to the Boston Report.

I am not sure a discussion of what the Commissioner can or can not do is relevant when we can see with our own eyes what this Commissioner is doing. He is massaging. There is no serious investigation going on here. The Commissioner is: - tailoring the story he wants to present - he is picking on particular participants that he can throw under the bus with impunity, those being Managers and Coaches and front office personnel who are not represented in either Ownership or the PA and retired players also without representation in Ownership or the PA. Cute Manfred, real cute. In the meantime, the media sates itself on idiocy like whether or not Fiers should be castigated or admired for flipping on the Astros after leaving and whether Mendoza should have lost her gig on ESPN for commenting (should not have but she has other issues) and whether Pedro coming put with a similar comment to Mendoza's will mean anything. IMO, this is childish rubbish designed to distract us from the real issues that matter here: - there is clearly an issue in MLB with the Inorganic use of technology assets like in game, real time, video and electronics in order to cheat - MLB is doing its level best to bury this as is the Media in general as is Ownership. It remains to be seen if the PA is going to bury it as well. Media is out to bury it under utterly ridiculous issues like whether to castigate Fiers or not and whether Medoza was fairly treated. Ownership is going to keep its head below the grass line and hope this goes away ASAP. MLB is going to pick on particular entities within baseball that are not really represented by anybody, people who are not the constituents of any of the representative groups in baseball, those being Managers, Coach, Front office personnel that are not involved in Ownership and ex-players and hope their carcasses are enough to sate the masses. They should not be if we have any sense as the consuming public, as fans of baseball. But I would bet the farm that the entities identified above are going to try to get away with it. If anything I would have preferred that JD shut the f*** up and talk to his Player Representative with the PA because the PA is the only group of the three headed beast that is baseball, MLB, the Franchises and the PA plus Media that IMO has any chance of stepping to the plate and demanding that MLB manage a process that is actually intended to deal with the crux of the issue head on.

I don't trust the league or the owners as far as I can throw them at this point and I have little confidence that we will get a definitive answer to 2018 regardless of what the eventual report does, vindicates or not. By the same token, nobody is going to be stripping anybody of Championships IMO. Not going to happen here and not going to happen in Houston. However, if anybody wants these Championships to mean anything ever again, they better get this s*** sorted out between the PA, the Owners and the League.

I have actually seen Fastball. You will enjoy it. Pay attention to the segment on Nolan Ryan and watch how his body matures over time and the ungodly force he turns into on the mound once he grows into his body and can control his throwing talent without losing velocity. When I saw him close up he was at that point a BIG man controlling what amounted to a bomb going off on the mound every FB. You will likely enjoy the actual science of what the hitter's brain is actually doing to process data in an effort to hit a baseball and how much harder it is to do as the velo climbs.

On top of that, MLB is setting itself up for a more in-depth discussion with the legal sports books they want to partner with about cheating than they are prepared to have. Honestly I still think its the PA that has to bail the Sport out. The Owners won't do it and the League won't do it. The PA has finally got to stop ignoring pitting part of its membership against another part of its membership when it comes to inorganic forms of cheating. The Organic stuff can be dealt with. But the use of electronics and video has just got to stop. Pit the players against their coaches and Managers if one group has to be pitted against another. The pitcher/hitter dual is so much the core of the game and pitchers have to do so much to care for the gift they have been given, the ability to throw hard and throw well that it just has to be dealt with IMO. Without pitchers doing what they do, we don't even have a game. The other thing this has forced me to contend with is the number of times in the last few years you see the frustration on pitchers that just know there is no way a particular hitter should have hit a particular pitch that well. That the hitter in question had no business hitting that particular pitch UNLESS he knew it was coming and sold out on it. Add that to the frustration of watching hitters just barely touch the rocket ship baseball, one handed and hit them to the opposite field to the deepest part of a baseball park and out of there and something has got to give. I don't think I have ever seen so many pitchers so frustrated on the mound and I think it sucks even as a former hitter. I think the whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Slider killed me too. Embarrassed me. I was often struck out at Home Plate with the bat on my shoulder and way too late I am saying to myself, "Yup that was a slider" because that was all I could do with it. "Yup....that was a slider." But I literally could not get the bat off my shoulder. I was frozen there at Home Plate looking like an idiot.

Not only is the above categorically true from my earlier post, the effort pitchers put in to perfect their game is ungodly. The whole game utterly falls apart without pitchers. The rest of us are pretty replaceable and movable around the game. NOT PITCHERS. There is no way the professional game and MLB reaches the heights that those of us that watch in amazement appreciate without pitchers doing what pitchers do. You actually have to get some steel in your spine just to stand in against really really good pitching.... in the old days anyway. I think I have told the story here of having been able to watch Nolan Ryan working out one year. My eyes bugged out of my head and I was a pretty courageous hitter. But how hitters stood in against that guy when he was coming at you with a baseball in his hand is almost beyond comprehension. Standing very close to the mound and then standing close to home plate when he started cutting it loose, I think my eyes stayed bugged out of my head for the rest of the day. Standing close to the mound all you saw was this big giant can of a rear end on a coil spring and all that energy generated toward home plate. It was like a bomb going off on the mound every pitch. Standing near the plate but not in the batters box you got the impression that you just cannot even see that thing when Ryan cut it loose. That said having stood in against some pretty good pitchers in my day, when you are actually in the box, your blood is up, adrenaline is coursing through your veins and the game slows down. I actually think its the only way to hit real competitive pitching. Its the only way I could hit because I could not afford to let a FB opportunity go by. I had to stand in. I was meat to a good breaking pitch unless it was flat and hung right in my eyes.

I agree....Its the pitchers that have taken it on the chin for this whole mess, the rocket ship baseball, electronic sign stealing, they are taking it right in the pocketbook. Don't get me wrong. No love lost for pitchers. I think Jacko was a pitcher (he can correct me). But I was always a hitter. Never even could envision crawling into the skin or the head of a pitcher. But this is nuts and they are gonna' revolt at some point. Maybe even this year unless they see a "concerted" effort to get on top of this. Honestly, I don't see it happening. I have little faith as from what I can tell, Manfred is already no longer investigating and is on to framing this so that a few guys get thrown under the bus, Ownership remains completely guiltless and everybody goes their merry way. But I don't think the pitchers are going to have much more patience with this nonsense. If it were some other position player being abused, maybe I could see it. But even though I have no love lost for pitchers, I respect them immensely. Every single thing in baseball starts with the ball in the pitcher's hand and they are out their laying down tracks inning after inning, game after game. Most of the rest of us are standing around chewing on our gloves waiting to get up to the plate again. No, I don't think all teams or doing it. But knock me over with a feather if its not half the teams anyway. It really is a matter of who you hire to Manage your team and I simply do not buy the idea that upper management of baseball teams do not know who they are hiring when they hire them. Just too much crap going on and in their positions if they don't know what is happening its because they have their heads firmly lodged up their own asses.

Correct, I should not have discussed Pearce and JBJ in the same thread. It is obviously the ALCS and JBJ and I said as much earlier. Keyed WS when I meant to key ALCS in the post you quote boxed. My bad. Thanks for catching that.

Actually talking about selling out on pitches made me think about the Astros hitters. That does in fact look like a bunch of hitters that are supremely confident in the knowledge of the pitch that is coming. Springer, often he can hardly stay in the stadium he sells out so hard on FB. Correa very similar in that regard. Altuve.....PLLLLLLLEASE!!!!!! Look at the way that lineup swings or at least has swung up and down the lineup. Nobody sells out more on pitches than the Astros have.