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1. Mookie Betts ® RF 2. Rafael Devers (L) 3B 3. Xander Bogaerts ® SS 4. J.D. Martinez ® DH 5. Andrew Benintendi (L) LF 6. Christian Vazquez ® C 7. Jackie Bradley Jr. (L) CF 8. Michael Chavis ® 1B 9. Brock Holt (L) 2B 1. Jonathan Villar (S) 2B 2. Trey Mancini ® RF 3. Chance Sisco (L) C 4. Renato Nunez ® DH 5. Dwight Smith Jr (L) LF 6. Anthony Santander (S) CF 7. Chris Davis (L) 1B 8. Rio Ruiz (L) 3B 9. Richie Martin ® SS

If OB had said greatest relief pitcher, I would have been fine with that. The history of relief pitchers of merit is short enough to make that claim. Greatest pitcher of all time....an utter LAUGH!

According to OB, Mariano Rivera should be under consideration for greatest pitcher of all time. I suspect OB posts here under some moniker or another.

Even if his back was bothering him just a little, you don't put JD in the field. You make Beni crawl out there first or put Holt out there regardless of whether there is a LH or RH pitcher. I don't think its his back.

Yep, I am totally convinced that had the Jays not optioned Tellez to look at some minor league players, we would have split that series. We would have lost both games starting our RH starters. Now getting spanked by the O's. Nice....real nice.

Weber with the bases loaded and one out. Well that sounds encouraging. Why don't I just draw a warm bath, hop in and slit my wrists. Save myself the misery.

Well JD has not gotten a single thing to hit tonight. That said he is getting a few decent pitches to hit in these games. But is not seeing his usual volume of weak cheese and sludgy sliders and those are HIS pitches. When he does see one now, he is so anxious to hit it, he f***s that up too. He is just going to have to work through this. You can expect at least one good pitch to hit per AB. JD has gotten nothing to hit so far tonight.

None of them have done a good job out there this year of backing each other up. NONE OF THEM.

And that is what happens to the change when the pitcher does not pronate. That is exactly the opposite action you expect from the change. Just an awful pitch. More like the way Price was throwing them at the start of the year. As for JD, are we done with him in the OF yet?

Why don't you walk all the way back to the dugout between pitches Vaz. Saw an interesting stat the other day. The Sox hitters take the most time on average between pitches and the Sox pitchers take the most time on average between pitches. No wonder these games turn into death marches. Not a proud stat IMO.

So that is what i mean in the Mookie Betts thread about Mookie getting better pitches to hit now that Rafi hits behind him instead of hitting behind JD. Did JD get a single pitch in that AB that was not a pitcher's pitch? NOPE! He did not even get a whiff of a pitch that is a JD pitch.

1. Mookie Betts ® DH 2. Rafael Devers (L) 3B 3. Xander Bogaerts ® SS 4. J.D. Martinez ® RF 5. Christian Vazquez ® 1B 6. Sam Travis ® LF 7. Michael Chavis ® 2B 8. Jackie Bradley Jr. (L) CF 9. Sandy Leon (S) C 1. Jonathan Villar (S) 2B 2. Hanser Alberto ® 3B 3. Trey Mancini ® 1B 4. Renato Nunez ® DH 5. Anthony Santander (S) RF 6. Chance Sisco (L) C 7. Stevie Wilkerson (S) LF 8. Keon Broxton ® CF 9. Richie Martin ® SS

He is growing into his uni. He is 22 for God sake. Pitchers are still willing to pitch to him for some ridiculous reason. The other night, Sanchez had two on and two out and threw it to the backstop with Devers at the plate. Sanchez is a RH pitcher. As soon as that went to the backstop they should have just walked Devers and pitched to X regardless of how good X is hitting this year. Instead they pitch to Devers now with two in scoring position and two out and of course Devers pounds Panini Sandwiches senseless and the Sox score two runs. So Rafi is still growing into a serious reputation so far unacknowledged by the slow on the uptake MLB.

Clearly Mookie's recent success is not entirely attributable to Rafi hitting behind him. Watch how much this forum crowd howls if Cora dares mess with Mookie, Rafi, X hitting 1,2,3 in the order. I will certainly howl as I loved these three at the top immediately and said so.

Not sure if anybody has mentioned it yet but it should be painfully obvious that Mookie has benefited mightily from now having Rafi hitting behind him. JD, not so much from Rafi having moved up in the order. Now JD is stuck with who.....Beni???? Give me a break. Even Vaz is not going to really scare pitchers. By season end, everybody that can swing a bat at all will have close to or over 20 HR's on the year. So Vaz isn't scarin' anybody. Cora probably won't often move Chavis behind JD because they are both RH hitters. But even with Chavis limitations he might, MIGHT provide more protection for JD than Vaz can provide and Beni is no protection at all. Could put JBJ behind JD. Oh yea....that will work!....NOT!!!!

Might be worth looking at the balls that Ryu has thrown in his early career before he came here. He thrives with this baseball and it makes me wonder if the balls used in Korea bear some resemblance to these baseballs. Also makes me wonder if the number of pitchers now throwing a knuckle curve instead of using the traditional curve grip is a consequence of this new ball. There is no slider version of the knuckle curve which also makes me wonder if that is at he heart of seeing so many suck ass Sliders just rolling up to the plate waiting to be lambasted. It might be harder to throw breaking balls with this baseball and it might even be more difficult to exhibit command with this baseball. However, I still applaud the efforts of pitchers to try. In the first place, there are not enough of them around that EVER had gas. Many of the guys that threw real gas didn't have the physical characteristics nor the technique to throw that hard for very long and wore out leaving us with the general level of sludge pitching in MLB unis today. If they were willing to throw hard when they really couldn't for Manfred and for their agents, they should be willing to try to exhibit command for us. Everything that happens on the diamond starts with the ball in the hands of the pitcher. Without them (unless Manfred reverses direction) we are doomed to a remaining life of watching hitters hack away at 96 above their heads and balls in the dirt, behind their ears, WHEREVER. Most of the pitchers can't throw worth crap and most of the hitters have no clue what they are swinging at when and that is not interesting baseball to me. Even with these baseballs and even with the explosion in HR's that "explosion" amounts to 2.8 HR's per game on average in total. Wow....I am SOOOOOOO excited. Lets watch 3 hours of guys trudging back to the dugout for 2.8 HR's, approximately 10 seconds of excitement per game. Whoopdie-ding-dong. Be still my heart!

I hope he gets off to a healthy start.

Yup...in truth a whole bunch of the pitchers in MLB should do that. The way hitters are swinging in this iteration of MLB, command is even more of a weapon than it was in the past. The pitcher that tries to overpower these guys is just playing into their hands. Why do that...because Manfred wants them to do that? These hitters for the most part, do not care what the count is, don't care what the pitchers tendencies are, what the game situation is ....none of it. They are hackin'. Count could be 0-2, 1-2, 3-2, they are swinging like the count is 2-1 all the time. Frankly I do think a number of pitchers in MLB are backing down the velo and throwing more breaking stuff. Whether there are enough of them that can actually exhibit command is another story. Remains to be seen given the sparsity of good pitchers left. But I applaud their effort. Let the velocity propagandists choke on it. Its not their careers being shortened....not them ending up on the operating table. Want to let it all hang out and throw hard for one inning....good for you....not sure that suggests a long career either unless a pitcher has the physical makeup and the technique to really throw hard without shortening his career. But I think starters backing off the velo and focusing on command is exactly what they should be doing.....virtually ALL OF THEM!

If you mean the 95-96 FB Sale, I think that guy is gone. He overthrow one pitch at 96 according to one gun and 97 according to some other dame fool gun. It was nowhere near the plate and should have been a walk to a bases loaded since the count was 3-2. As usual, these days the hitter came up to the plate like a premature ejaculator using his bat as his "invading member". Most modern day hitters are so anxious to swing, they just can't help themselves, never mind the count, never mind any recognition for the pitcher they are facing, his strengths, weaknesses and tendencies or anything else. Would have loved to have seen these guys in little league with the opposing team screaming "swing batter". I have got to bet they swung every time. But anyway cutting back on his FB velo (91 to 93) might be the key to regaining command of his Slider and Change again as that trade off was clearly evident today. The only problem with that if in fact that is the remedy is that Sale only throws get me over Sliders for strikes early in counts, 0-0 for example. The rest of the Sliders he throws are thrown in an effort to get hitters to chase. If he can only get 91-93 on his FB there is no earthly reason for a hitter with a brain to chase that Slider. Just sit dead read and feast on 91-93. We will just have to see how this plays out.

Well is at what is probably the bottom for him. When a hitter starts focusing too much on what he can't hit, he can no longer even hit what is actually can hit and that is where JD is right now. JD hits weak cheese. He lives off of it...feasts off of it and it just so happens that there are enough weak cheese putzes throwing in MLB these days that if you can hit weak cheese, not only can you make a living, you can be a "star". But he is maybe even a bit overexercised about not being able to hit breaking stuff. Its not like these putzes throwing all this breaking stuff are not also tossing weak cheese up there for him to hit. He will either figure it out or he won't. But I don't see him radically changing his swing and his posture in the batter's box to be Rafi's who dives across the batters box to cover the entire plate or X's who lunges across the plate to do it or Bellinger's who literally just camps with his elbow covering the inner 3rd of the plate. They get away with it because pitchers no longer pitch inside effectively. But I think JD's swing has been grooved over time and with a process that he is not going to abandon so he can become a carbon copy of those hitters. I actually don't even think he can do that. I think he just needs to be satisfied with what he can hit which is pumped up to the plate in this version of MLB in abundant supply and with reckless abandon.

That is right about the same spot Panini Sandwiches blew apart in Toronto. 50-60 pitches is the most he can give anybody. There was no way he was going to get a pitch like that past Rafi.

If Cora has a brain in his head he will remain with Mookie, Rafi, X.....1,2,3 in the order. Bat Beni wherever. By the end of the year 10th might be the right spot in the order for Beni.

Sale just overthrew the ball to get 97 but waaaaaay out of the strike zone. Idiot hitter chased on a 3-2 count to get himself out with runners on.

Biggio just blew himself up in that AB not looking dead red. Sale threw him a get me over and get me ahead 0-0 slider right down the middle. OK to take that pitch even though it was right down the middle. But then he missed a FB, fouling off a pitch he should have been able to handle and then 92 down main st just cruise right past him. Just a horrible AB.

I see Panini Sandwiches is cutting us up again today. We just cannot hit these kinds of guys worth s***. We have a few guys that can hit them. But far too few. Sale certainly seems to have regained some command of his Slider and Change at the expense of FB velo. That could be fine except Sales does not throw his Slider for a called strike. He gets guys to chase it out of the zone. If it gets around that his FB velo is like 91-92, tops 93, they just won't chase the Slider. Why would they. They will just sit on weak cheese. We will just have to see.