SoxFanForsyth

If WMB is really hurt, how cool would it be if they called up Bogaerts??

None of our runs should even be there. Aviles only scored bc of a bad pick off move and Ross wouldn't have homered if it was a right handed pitcher. But their runs are legit because our team is so bad. /jung'd

2-3 tonight with a single and a double. That makes him 4/7 by my count with a bomb and a double. He is 19. Ho hum.

First off, there's no way you should trade Pedroia. Give me Pedroia with a rotation lead by Buchholz with Garza slotted in the 3 slot, and Pedroia in the lineup over a rotation lead by Felix (still not sure who you are wanting to deal for, the deal for Pedroia makes no sense for anyone IMO, but for arguments sake we will say him) but with Iglesias and Ciriaco starting in my lineup everyday.

Which, to me, is a terrible, terrible, horrifying way to justify trading your best player. You don't trade a clubhouse positive to send a message to the clubhouse negatives. It doesn't work that way. If the negatives in the clubhouse cared at all, they would have already changed after the past 1.5 years. Sending Pedroia out and keeping the negatives is the exact opposite of what we need to do. Do we need pitching help? Absolutely. But Pedroia will not (and should not) be dealt to acquire it. If you are dead set on going after a SP via trade, you've got a few pieces in the minors who are capable of bring you back a very good SP, but you have to be thinking Bogaerts, Barnes, Bradley, and Owens. And on a side note, trading Pedroia for a proven ace makes no sense anyway. The only reason that a team would trade for Pedroia is if they are in it to win in the next 1-2 years. And if that's the case, they will be trying to trade minor league players. If not, they will be dealing for minor league pieces, not major league players. No team that trades for Pedroia will trade an ace because they're either in it to win, or in it to rebuild.

Seems like I read everything.

oh. i didn't know ashton kutcher played for the Guardians.

Ya know what, I'm not done because this is ********. Jung. You want to trade Pedroia because of 1 thing that he said because he was sticking up for his teammate, but THEN, you want to turn around and give Ortiz his 2 year deal?? Ortiz had been bitching about his contract for how long now? And you're going to REWARD that bitching about his INDIVIDUAL contract, but you're going to TRADE Pedroia for sticking up for his TEAM!?!? Come on man. How about some f***ing consistency. Ortiz broke into a f***ing presser about ONE f***ING RBI!!!!!! ONE!!!!!! And you want to change the clubhouse culture by trading Pedroia, but then you turn around and reward Ortiz with a 2 year deal?!? He bitches and bitches and bitches and then you say "Ok David. Here's your deal". But you want to run Pedroia out of town because you don't want the players to think they are bigger than the team?!?! Christ. The hypocrisy is f***ing ridiculous.

And by the way, I'm not moving the problem out 1 year. I'm taking steps toward fixing the problem. 1. Lester isn't nearly as bad as he's been this year. He's still a very, very good pitcher. He's having an awful season which has been destructed by a high BABIP and a low strand rate. If you don't think he's going to bounce back, then I just don't know what to tell you. You need to look at more detailed stats than just ERA. 2. I said to trade Beckett, trade Lackey, go with a rotation of Buch - Lester - Garza/Masterson - Doubront - Tazawa. With a bullpen of Bailey/Bard/Aceves/Wilson/Breslow/Miller/Atchison, a defense headlined by Pedroia and Iglesias up the middle, and an offense full of guys who have high OBP's like Gonzalez, Pedroia, Lavarnway, Ellsbury, and Ortiz, this team will get back to what made them great over the past few years. You have to be realistic about this team. Blowing up the offense to spite the pitching is how you turn the 2013 Red Sox into the 1993-2011 Pirates.

No. That's not what I'm doing at all. I'm just not going to overreact and dump my best player in Pedroia, one of the only guys on the team who actually cares and goes out and gives everything he's got on a daily basis, because I want to set an example for all the other pieces of s*** on this team. That's one of the most counterproductive things I can even think of doing. Again. You want to change the culture? Then why the hell do you trade Pedroia? Because he said 1 thing because he was sticking up for his teammates? Again. This is an absolutely classic example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. You're getting rid of the teams best player to spite the team and try to make it better. It does NOT add up. The problem is with the starting pitching. Yes. I think Buchholz is an ace. Yes, it sucks that it took him a bit to shake off the rust from his back injury. But once he got back into his comfort zone, what has he done? 90 Innings, 13 starts, 2.80 ERA. He's averaging 7 IP per start. And in his last 10 starts, he's averaging 7.1 IP per start with a 2.21 ERA. He's the guy who can lead the staff. It's absolutely ridiculous to say you want to trade Pedroia as a lesson, and then go into next season with Iglesias and Ciriaco as your middle infielders, then complain about how next season we wouldn't have a chance if we didn't trade Pedroia for an ace. I mean honestly....

I agree, but that doesn't mean you get rid of Pedroia. Getting rid of Beckett should be the #1 plan. #2 should be to get a pitching coach that actually knows what the hell he's doing, and didn't get fired from a team who couldn't touch .500. #3 should be to explore trades for guys like Lester. Eat Lackey's contract and see if you can trade him. Get DiceK off the books. And rebuild your pitching rotation. You don't need to rebuild the entire offense. You need to at least have 1 of your SS/C combo to be able to put up an OBP over .350. We have that. In Lavarnway. Then you can sacrifice your SS offense for elite, elite defense. That alone will help your pitching staff. You don't need to blow up the whole team. You need to blow up the rotation outside of Buchholz and Doubront. The bullpen with Bard, Bailey, Wilson, Aceves, Miller, Breslow, and Tazawa is a very good bullpen. The Sox still have a very good offense (much better with Lavarnway up), they have a very good bullpen. Do we need to blow up the team? No, not the whole team. We need to isolate the problem. And I think it's pretty clear where it is. It's the SP. So do we blow up 3/5 of the SP? Absolutely. Buchholz can lead this staff. I slot him as my #1. I slot Doubront as my #3/4. If we don't trade Lester, fine, I slot him as by #2. I still think Lester is a very good pitcher, just having a significantly down year. I would rather see Tazawa in the #4/5 role than Lester or Beckett, myself. He's looked incredible out of the bullpen, and he's young enough that he can make the transition. His peripherals have always been good, especially his walks (career 2.6 BB/9 in the minors), and he strikes out plenty (10.7 K/9 in AAA, 9.0 in entire minor leagues). So now you have a potential rotation of Buchholz - Lester - _______ - Doubront - Tazawa. Maybe you go out and trade for a guy like Matt Garza, or Justin Masterson and slot one of them in that 3 hole. Maybe you go out and sign a guy like Edwin Jackson, or Hiroki Kuroda and slot them in the #3 hole. Is this an elite rotation? Not by any means. But is it a giant step in the right direction? 110% yes. Can that rotation lead this team, with that lineup and that bullpen to 89-92 wins? Yup. Would I put Clay Buchholz up against any team and any pitcher in the MLB in a 1 game play in game? With our lineup, and our bullpen, yup, I'd feel comfortable with that.

Huh?!? The Nat's gave up three pitching prospects, Brad Peacock (#36 prospect by BA), A.J. Cole (#57 Prospect by BA), and Tommy Milone, plus catching prospect Derek Norris (#38 prospect pre-2010, #72 pre-2011).

Because he actually gets fired up and shows that he cares about winning baseball games. He's got an actual desire to win and a drive to succeed. He gets to the park before anyone else. Not to mention he is one of the best 2B in all of baseball. He's the kind of player that GM's dream of building their team around. Not only because of his effort and his ability, but also because he's exactly the kind of player you want in the clubhouse. How many times did Francona say "Pedroia kind of wills himself to come through big in those key situations". All the time. How many other people did Francona say that about? None. Pedroia is a different breed. It would be a monumental mistake to trade him.

Here are some quotes from Pedroia this year. You want to trade that guy because of clubhouse issues?

I just need an explanation of how trading Pedroia, literally one of the only guys on the entire team who gets fired up and pissed off when they lose, helps this team and this clubhouse? It just makes no sense to me. How will a trade of Pedroia help this team? Who takes his spot once he leaves? Ciriaco, with his 1.1% BB%? That's a disgusting middle infield offensively, regardless of whether you go with Iglesias or Aviles. That doesn't work in the NL, much less the AL East. You want Nate Spears up here to play 2B? You don't just trade MVP's and All Star players just because the clubhouse stinks and they are the best player on your team and are having a bad season. That's the quickest way to turn into the 1993-2011 Pirates. Trading Pedroia is literally just a trade to try to shake things up and you are so, so, so much worse off by trading him than you would be to retain him. You're just trading the good and keeping the s*** when you trade Pedroia. It makes less than 0 sense to me, and the more I think about it, the more I am just completely dumbfounded by the idea.

Trading Pedroia to fix the clubhouse is the equivalent of trying to fix the starting rotation by trading Buchholz.

Fine, go to the core of these players, that's fine. But Pedroia?!? Pedroia is NOT the problem. Saying that getting rid of him will somehow change the culture of this clubhouse is a complete abomination of everything that Pedroia represents. He's an absolute dirt dog who plays at 110% every single day. Do you want to change the clubhouse culture, or do you want to get rid of Pedroia because you think he's going to turn into Youkilis?? Because when you get rid of Pedroia, you change the clubhouse for the worse. Not to mention that Pedroia heals much, much faster than Youkilis ever did. They said Pedroia would be in a brace for his thumb for 3 weeks and he was back in the lineup in 15 days. Pedroia has played in 150+ games in 3 of his last 4 seasons coming into this game. Youkilis hasn't hit 140 since 2008, and has never played 150 in his career. And that includes when he was a 1B where he had to run/dive virtually never. Don't give me this comparison of Pedroia to Youkilis. That's a terrible, terrible comparison. Just because they both play hard and go all out doesn't mean they are going down the same path. You want Pedroia out of this clubhouse? Be prepared to see a clubhouse that is even worse than it is now. Because right now, Pedroia is one of the last guys in there that actually gives a s***.