Dojji

Seguin isn't that far behind Hall as a possible wing. He's not a "pure playmaker," the kid can score just fine, it's just that he's a bit less of a scorer than Hall so the playmaking stands out a bit. And down the road, there's a lot more ways Seguin is going to be useful to the Bruins compared to Hall. The tiebreaker to me is Bergeron's concussion history and expiring contract, and Savvy's age and health. For that matter Krejci's ended both of the last 2 years with a concerning surgery as well (hip last year, wrist this year). Our primary advantage is still the three top-flight centers we can roll when everyone's healthy and we have legitimate, concrete concerns about our ability to keep each of these guys on the ice. Someone who can replace one of those three if we don't get access to them for awhile could very well be franchise-saving. And in that case I'd 1000x rather have Seguin over Hall. There are other wingers who can give us most of Hall. From what I've heard about Seguin, his skillset is much harder to even get 80% of in FA or trade. To put it in baseball terms, Hall is a franchise slugger with GG defense, Adrian Gonzalez type basically, but I see Seguin as a Joe Mauer type franchise catcher analog, fundamentally sound, very, very talented, leader of the entire team in every facet of the game, accounts for a metric crapload of offense in his own right. Dang harder to get either one, both have a skillset that is both rare and incredibly valuable, but there IS an important distinction that's worth calling attention to. This kid is being compared to Stevie Y, and there's a reason for that. Sign me up for Seguin.

We traded garbage for cheaper garbage, too, garbage that was fairly easy to get rid of when it was clear that's what it was. The WMP trade wasn't an awful idea, it just didn't work in the long run. Looked like it might at a couple points, but Modesto just couldn't stay consistent. I don't think Arroyo saves us in 2006 and we won the Series in 2007 so ultimately it didn't do any real damage either.

Materially superior, certainly not inferior, but let's watch you try to wriggle your way around that.. Mission accomplished. You looked and found numbers agreeing with me, and then you fished around until you found a flimsy excuse to try to rest your argument on. That's really all you have? By the same token Carlos Pena or Adam Dunn should have "flattened out" over a larger sample size. It's the same skillset. You're basically relying on pure speculation to try to give yourself any argument at all. It'd be comical if you weren't so serious. By the same token, feel free to emerge from your rectal headrest for a second and stop inventing reasons to disagree with me for the disagreement's own sake. Napoli is not a part-time player. Hasn't been one since 2008, started a majority of his team's games despite an injury that took a month out of his season in 2009 and has caught 37 games 2 months into the season -- again, a majority of the games. Jeff Mathis by contract, has played 10 games, less than Varitek -- to this point in the season Napoli is clearly the starter, and he's doing fine. Check BBR. You are wrong on both counts. He caught 96 games, and started 84. As to your OPS-while-playing-catcher, weren't you the one complaining that the sample size was small enough as it is? Why shrink it further with meaningless cherry-picking? Oh right, because it allows you to continue to maintain your position. He already has, and he's in process of another, but you're too busy browngazing to figure it out.

Napoli's numbers are over a sample size of more than 1600 plate appearances. So thank you for your advice, but I already did that. You still don't get it. I was being generous TO YOU in assuming that the Angels might not realize what they have, and wouldn't demand a top prospect in return for it.

BTW -- as pertains to Mike Napoli's elite power or lack thereof. Is it agreed that Adam Dunn has elite power? How about Carlos Pena? Elite power? because Napoli isn't far short of those two. ISO: Dunn: .271 Pena: .251 Cust (2008-2009) .247 Napoli: .238 (per Fangraphs) I'd call that close enough to be in the same neighborhood as Pena, if not Dunn. Certainly his career rates mark him as a similar kind of hitter (Lots of HR's, low AVG, middling OBP). His career ISO rate is actually in the same viciinity as some of Jack Cust's better seasons as well. This is a guy who can kill the baseball. If the Angels are any kind of smart they will guard him jealously.

Mike Napoli caught the majority of the Angels' games last year (96) despite missing part of the year with an injury. And he hit 20 HR's, I might add. Also he's got a better arm than either of our catchers, although that's not saying a great deal. I concede the D on the whole but maintain he's less "terrible" and more "Posada-bad," and like Posada he's got the bat to make up for it. You are wrong. By the last 3 season numbers, by a comparison of relative contracts, by any reasonable standard of value, Mike Napoli is worth objectively more than Victor Martinez to a team at this time. Feel free to lash out with another post long on insult and short on substance if you'd like, the fact is that, for perhaps a historic first, the numbers are on *my* side this time.

No. Just no. The dropoff between Hall and Seguin isn't worth giving ANYTHING to Edmondton. By the sounds of things, Seguin may turn out to be the better player in the long run and it's hardly as if no "true" center was ever tremendously effective on the wing or anything (*coughBergycough*). This may be self-delusion, but I think Edmondton takes Hall and we wind up absolutely glad they did.

From what I've heard about him Kabonov makes Kessel look like the consummate team player.

I could go for Fuentes, but I wouldn't be too quick to give up on Oki. He's bounced back before.

I'd be perfectly happy with Seguin. If Hall wasn't on the board everyone would be raving about both Seguin's shot and his playmaking ability. He can score on his own and make those around him better too. Basically the kid is Krejci with better raw tools and speed I would be delighted to have Seguin as a "consolation prize." I think we all will be glad to have him.

Frankly it's a no-win situation from my perspective. If I don't list a high-end prospect, everyone probably raises a hue and cry about how I'm trying to score a 20 HR catcher for junk and trash. If i do, everyone wants to crucify me for even daring to broach the subject of paying high value for one of the best power-hitting catchers in the league. Until the end of the year. Napoli is arb-controlled. He's not Victor? Sure he isn't, but I don't think you recognize just how impressive Napoli's offensive numbers are. We're talking about a catcher with a career .850 OPS who gets on base well and boasts consistent, proven elite power. Joe Mauer provides more offense per games played, but not too many others do, and Napoli's got better power than Mauer in terms of sheer ability to jack the ball, and that's not an exaggeration. Extrapolate his HR totals over 130 games and he's a 30-40 HR hitting catcher some years, he hasn't had a year yet where he's hit under 20 and he's on the same pace this year. With a solid OBP to match. And you guys think you're going to score him with the corpse of Mike Lowell. Good luck with that. Even with the bad D, good luck with that. I think the Angels are severely underutilizing him, bad D and all, and would be frankly AMAZED if they didn't simply solve their problems from the loss of Morales by playing Napoli at first base. I'd swap V-Mart for Napoli straight up, gladly, and fully expect the Angels to demand more -- as bad as Napoli is as a defensive catcher,, he's got a better arm than Victor and he's hit more consistently than Victor -- and for FAR more power. And he's cheaper. And he's under control for another 2 years or so. Even with all the factors you guys have thrown in, if you think you're getting him for peanuts, you're screwy. What did we pay for v-Mart? Two high-end pitching prospects one of which was a semi-established MLB pitcher when we moved him the other was a #1 pick. Napoli is arguably a match for V-Mart, except cheaper and under our control longer. So I don't think I'm that crazy in thinking the Angels demand more for Napoli than you seem to think they will. Also, if Napoli's too bad defensively, we've got an upcoming hole at the corner infield either this year or the year after. Youks to third, Napoli to first where his bat will probably carry him. Or platoon him as a C/DH when Ortiz moves on. He's got the power to do that too.

One bad game. He had one. Bad. Game. Sure it was a particularly awful bad game, but still. One game people.

Would I volunteer Kelly, no. but that kind of offense from a catcher is worth something, even with average D or worse.

Because he's under our control beyond this year, unlike the guys we have. Back him up with Wagner or Brown if you need D.

I could really go for Napoli. Not too many guys I'd hold back from that kinda deal. No current roster players is about it. (Kelly yes, Buchholz no)

I agree. Clay's and Lester's no-nos were blowouts, bunting in a blowout no-no is one thing, but this is 1-0. This game was very much in reach for the Marlins and they needed to be allowed to try and win it.

I guess it's an ill wind that blows no one any good. Yeah, you sorta knew as you watched some of these celebrations that eventually someone was going to come out to the worst, but I hope they don't abandon the practice. Just, you know, be smart about it and don't put yourself at risk in a fit of high spirits.

I was following the game and one guy (Coughlan?) did try, he just didn't get it down. Sides, since when was Doc afraid to send a message? You bunt on his perfecto, you get the next pitch up in your grill.

Halladay 2 innings from a perfecto

Ehh, one of the things about baseball is that a 100 game loser wins 62. No one's going to beat anyone else consistently. This was just their night, especially with Daisuke this discombobulated. Everyone has bad nights, at least Daisuke did a fair job of limiting the damage. Get 'em next time.

Dude, there are no words. There are just no words. You want a Japanese pitcher with a successful US career, I'll throw two at you,. Aki Otsuka and Takashi Saito. If you want a starter, go look at Hiroki Kuroda. Daisuke is struggling because of fastball command -- which was a known issue when he came over -- and because of wear and tear on his shoulder, another known issue. And no, the posting system didn't "steal" $50M from us, way to project the blame. We took a calculated risk, and this is gonna shock you, but I think it paid off and would do it again. Daisuke's first year helped lead us to a World Series championship, teams have spent a lot more than $50M pursuing that particular dream.

Fair enough, but my point still stands. Some of us should be ashamed of ourselves for what we said, the others should be ashamed for not calling them on it while the heat was up. That's one proud Boston tradition I don't want to rekindle.

Have to say I'm a little disappointed in my fellow fans. Sure, the guy was struggling, but did we have to get some of this semi-racist stuff that was going on from certain of us? He was struggling because he was not locating the fastball, not because he was Japanese.