jacksonianmarch

I hear ya man. I just find the outlook a lot brighter these days. The days of knowing the system is barren is over. Nothing was more fun than watching the kids come up in 94, 95, and 96 and then seeing them go from young role players on a championship team to the anchors of a dynasty. Then came the fall. Nothing was more disheartening than watching the yankees try to rely on the likes of Tim Redding, Darrell May, and Sean Henn as the best our farm could offer as MLB talent after Wang in 05. I am sure you felt the same way last yr. Knowing that after Lester, the cupboard was bare for at least 2 levels of the minors, it was actually 3 levels at the time. That hurts, that sucks. That means that you have no safety net and you need to get lucky like the yanks did in 05 with Small and Chacon being our best pitchers. Yes, lucky. We should not have made the playoffs that yr, let alone won the division. Now we have one of the best farm systems in baseball. After the Sheff trade, we were rated #6 in all of baseball. After the RJ deal, we are likely in the top 5. We didnt trade away anybody that was integral to next yrs success either. We traded our injured, old, and overpaid #4/5, a player without a position, and a player we were going to buyout anyway and reloaded our system with MLB ready pitching talent. That means, gone are the days of seeing a MLB journeyman take the reigns when the plans fail. Gone are the days of 30 yr old rookies hitting the bigs on our team and watching with empty optimism as they spit the bit. Here are the days of deep systems, tons of pitching talent, and development. Its the way it had been before George f***ed us. Something that yankee fans have heard the sox fans tell them, and outwardly denied while inwardly agreed completely. The biggest problem for the yankees in today's game is that you cannot buy pitching like you used to. You either develop it, or trade for it. Nowadays, the only guys who hit the FA market are either past their prime, or not top of the line. The best young pitchers are locked up even by the cheapest of franchises or dealt to the teams with deep talent. We had to settle for the Pavano's, Wright's, Chacon's of the world while other team's developed the talent. Well now we have 5 options, 7 if you count the two guys who made the team last yr, as pitchers for our future, all of which have the MLB debut date of being 2007 (and that doesnt count Wang or Igawa). The future as either pitchers on our team or bait for others. That is nice. We finally are doing what Stick Michael told us we should be doing. Are we taking a step back in 07? I dont think the trades we have made in 07 are setting us back as much as the fact that we dont have a lights out staff to begin with. We'll hit. The bullpen will be fine. The rotation doesnt have one guy who I look at as a prototypical ace. Wang is a quirky styled ace pitcher, but a guy who really is a 2/3. Mussina and Pettitte are nice #2/3 pitchers. Igawa a slotted 4 and Pavano a pussy. Johnson does nothing to make that better. Adding Clemens will add another guy who in the AL would be in the 2/3 category. Its a nice rotation, one with limited ability to fail, and limited ability to surge past expectations. Its a rotation you could certainly win with. It isnt going to be the anchor of a team. It wont drag a team down either. Overall, I think the team has the makings to be very good in 07. They will make the playoffs and likely win the division by a good margin. But they arent a team built like your prototypical playoff team. So we'll see. But for once, I wont have to look at this yr and say, is this when it all ends? After this season, will we become the SF Giants, a team without a future? No, our farm is loaded with pitching, the one thing we couldnt buy. That should make all the difference.

if you got any pitching at all in those 4 games, RJ would have been 0-4.

and signed on the cheap now. Oswalt is a bargain. No way he moves.

What most arent realizing is the fact that we had two commodities without a ton of worth. We found the teams that saw them worthy and fleeced them. Sheffield had 2 suitors, one was the cubbies and the other was detroit. We picked the team with a surplus of pitching talent. They paid through the nose in a deal that nearly any baseball writer worth his salt gave the yankees a standing O. Adding 3 pitchers from the tigers system in their top 13 prospects? Their #2, 4, and 7 pitching prospects from possibly the best pitching farm in baseball. For a 39 yr old malcontented RFer who had no position, was in the last yr of his contract, and did not bounce back well from wrist surgery. Not just that, Sanchez, starts the yr in AAA, Whelan will be in AA as closer, and Claggett the closer in Tampa. What I read on a tigers scouting site was interesting on the last Whelan, they actually expected him to hit the majors this season as a mid season callup. 3 high ranking prospects, 2 of which are considered to be making their MLB debuts this yr. RJ is 43, coming off back surgery and his worst season in his career. He also wanted out. He is expected to miss a month of the yr and was in the last season of a contract that was paying him 16 mil. That doesnt scream worthiness to me. So, they looked at what his worth was. 2 teams wanted him, both saw him as a way to draw business in. The Yankees had a shot at Linebrink and the #3 prospect in SD in Headley (a single A 3b) (assuming they gave 7.5 mil to SD), but chose higher level pitching prospects and less cash to pay. Once again, the yankees picked the team with the deepest system. SD has one of the worst systems in baseball. And when a 23 yr old 3b who had an alright yr in single A ball is your #3 prospect, you got problems. Whereas, the DBacks have a system loaded to the gills with talent. The Yankees wanted pitching, and they got it. Ohlendorf is considered the prize of the deal, and from what is being reported, Cashman liked him better than Owings and Nippert. Ohlendorf is a 6'5 230lb "horse" with a power sinker who threw 180 innings of effective ball in AA last yr. Jackson is a guy who jumped 20 spots on the DBack minor league depth chart even though the DBacks had a solid draft. A 6'5" power righty with a plus slider and a MLB change who threw 150 innings of 2.5 era ball in AA. Both will be starters in AAA and both will are expected to make their MLB debuts this season. The SS is a guy who may amount to something, but he will report to AAA and see what happens. Overall, the yankees added 3 starting pitchers to their AAA rotation, all three of which are still young and could end up in the Bronx by the end of the yr. They added a smooth fielding SS who hit for the first time last yr to their AAA squad. They added 2 power relievers, one will report to AA and has been considered a mid season callup in 07 and another who is further range down to single A. All while dumping a 5.00 era and 151 ABs for guys who next yr, were going to be gone for nothing.

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter, he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.

elsr, I agree 100% on RJ. As for Wang, we'll have to see. You have to watch him, and how dominant he is before you really can make a judgement. He throws one pitch 85% of the time. It isnt like Chacon or Small, two guys who missed bats miraculously in 05. Wang has been doing this for 2 years now. 330IP of this style of work, and for the most part, it has been consistent. I like to listen to what other players say about pitchers after they face him. This made me worried when it came to Irabu, when Detroit said that he is no better than average and they were right. But it is encouraging about Wang. Most players say they know what is coming, but trying to hit a 95 mph bowling ball is easier said than done. That being said, improvements are going to be minimal for him. He'll never be the 25-4 2.5 era type of guy that is always a wet dream of baseball fans. But he'll be your consistent starter giving you a chance to win every night out. He may never K 200 guys, hell, he may never K 100. But he is a guy who you can hang your hat on, a young Kevin Brown with a better sinker and a better head on his shoulders.

I like this one better And btw, Clemens would not be coming to NY if RJ was still here.

Curt is the better pitcher right now, no doubt. And the fact that they have him on a one yr deal and signed Matsuzaka and are moving Paps to the rotation makes things a little better. I dont think anyone can expect Schilling to have ace numbers, but I wouldnt say he is going to have an RJ-esque fall from grace. RJ was dominant in his day. He had 2 pitches that nobody could hit. Schilling was dominant too. His heat was powerful, but he didnt have any one pitch that was overly dominant aside from that heat. It was the fact that he could hit a corner on command with any pitch is what made him great, and what makes him still effective today with declining stuff. This is why guys like Wells, Clemens, Mussina, and Schilling have aged gracefully. Because location and stuff mixed with veteran savvy will tend to age better than a thrower. Plus, the thinkers of the game are typically your control pitchers, so they tend to make adjustments rather than be stubborn (like RJ was). If Schilling wanted to play 5 more yrs, I have no doubt that he'd be useful. Would he be the ace of old? Probably not, but he'd be a guy who could give you innings and still get people out. He wouldnt be a guy you'd be upset over him being in your rotation. RJ, he's a guy that we really tried to put a good light up to him as he was billed as the savior. But once the stuff and the health starts to go, you need to make adjustments. Mussina made them and had a career rennaissance. Randy made none and was dumped out of town.

not as good as Santana, Zambrano, Halladay, Peavy, Prior either, but I'll take it.

Wang was the man last yr. It isnt like his stuff is going to regress or peopler are going to "figure him out". He throws 1 pitch 85% of the time and it is so good that nobody can lift it. Time caught up with Mussina 2 years ago. That is why he changed last yr and accounted for it. He used to throw 92-94, but once his heat dipped into the upper 80s, his differential of speed was not enough between the heater and off speed stuff, so he got shillacked. He slowed down the slow stuff and was reborn. While I dont expect a 3.5 era again, a sub 4 era is not out of the question. I just dont get the "injuries in Houston" bit. He injured his arm 3 years ago swinging a bat. He lost 2/3 of the season to surgery. He came back and has made more starts since than almost any other pitcher in the majors. And aside from the first half of last season, the past 2 yrs have been damn successful.

looks better now!

no way wang repeats last yr? Go bet on that sonny. Mussina too? Pettitte is really gonna suck back in NY, where he was a star. And yeah, the rest just plain suck. How did you like the sox rotation again?

Here's how I see the rotational change. Wang = Wang Mussina = Mussina Pettitte > RJ Igawa > Wright Pavano/Kids > Chacon/Lidle looks good to me!

Yeah, the witch doctors on the reservation are checking the spirits wondering if Randy has enough spirit force for the yr.

We shall.

that will have more to do with arizona being in a s***** division than him being any good.

I hear ya. I wouldnt want the yankees to make the games they are blowing you out any closer. They pull at my heartstrings.

no, RJ may be healthy this yr. But it will likely cost him a part of the season and who knows how he will react/bounceback at 43.

you werent calling RJ all star quality after last season were you? Cause if he was an all-star, then the AL should pack it in. He was 33rd out of 39 pitchers to qualify in era last yr. Last I checked, that sucks. Sheff and his awe-inspiring 150ABs and bad attitude will not be missed while Abreu is roaming RF. And since when is Wright an all-star quality player.

17 wins with a herniated disc isnt bad. Hanging onto a 16 million dollar, 43 yr old declining pitcher expected to miss the first month of the season while being offered 2 pitching prospects that are MLB ready is bad. In 2005, we only had 2 pitchers surpass 10 wins because we had 5 starters on the DL for long periods of time. Last yr, our top 4 each reached 30 starts. Last yr, we had Chacon slated for the #5 slot. He was awful. Pavano fell off the face of the earth and the kids were too green to do anything about it. I'll tell ya right now, you are going to be surprised with how solid the yankee rotation is. I'm not saying spectacular or fantastic or anything like that, just solid. The top 4 will break 800 innings. If Pavano stays healthy, then he'll give us something. If he doesnt, he may give us something more. The start of the Phil Hughes era.

see, the forum got lively again. All it took was a coronation of a closer and a trade of a hall of famer.

You know what I just realized? That Texas is run by a bunch of frickin morons (the rangers, not the state guys). ARod was dealt for Soriano. Soriano was dealt for Sledge and Wilkerson. Sledge was dealt with Chris Young for Otsuka and Eaton. Mench was traded with Nix and Cordero for Lee and Nelson Cruz. Lee and Eaton left via FA. They essentially dealt away ARod, Chris Young, Kevin Mench, Laynce Nix, and Francisco Cordero for Wilkerson, Cruz, and Otsuka in a span of 3 seasons. Man they suck.