jacksonianmarch

Scaff, we might be seeing differing reports then. Chamberlain has impeccable control as evidence by his Hawaii #s (46K 3BB in 40IP). He sat in the 92-94 range in college but was sitting around 95 (topping between 97-98) in the Hawaiian league. He has a plus curve, MLB average slider and a change that is very raw. Bard is a guy who can hit triple digits on a good day, but walks his fair share. Is considered to have "shaky" command that will need to be tuned up. He has no secondary plus pitch at this time and all are in need of refinement due to their lack of consistency. He is a guy who needs his mechanics rebuilt and eventually, he will locate the heat and one of his secondary pitches will come out. Either way, Bard has the arm. Chamberlain has 3 pitches he is comfortable with and can locate 3 of his 4. Bard is not even consistent locating one pitch, but his fastball is so good that if he can locate it and if he can develop an offspeed pitch, he would be devastating.

Chamberlain has a better repertoire and if the reports are correct, he was throwing 95-97 in the hawaiian league. Plus he has much better control. At the same time, Chamberlain's problems are linked to his weight. He was as high as 290 in Nebraska this yr and his knees and shoulder felt the strain. He is currently listed as 230. If he stays in the mid 200s, he will be a better pitcher than Bard simply because he is a better "pitcher" at this point. But if that weight creeps up closer to 300, then he wont do us any good as his injury history will creep back in. He certainly has the injury issues, but if he stems that problem, then he'll be solid.

He has plus offspeed stuff, but his heat is certainly ordinary. This will limit his ceiling. I should have left him out, you are right. Chamberlain on the other hand is at or above Bard's level at this point.

from the daily herald. He hasnt agreed, someone is pulling my leg. If he doesnt agree by ST, he will wait until ST.

Of any of the prospects taken between the yankees and the sox last yr, Bard has the highest ceiling. Not just a #1, but he has the potential to be one of the best pitchers in the league. But that is essentially just because of his fastball. As far as the most polished kid from our two teams draft last yr, Chamberlain takes the cake. And you dont hear me chanting about this kid as a top of the line, MLB ready prospect, like I am about Hughes, Sanchez, et al. Consider Chamberlain, Kennedy, and Bard in the same bracket for now. Bard hasnt thrown a professional pitch, while Chamberlain has thrown only in the hawaiian league (46K 3BB in 40IP is still impressive) as well as Kennedy and the like. None of these guys see the bigs in the near future. Essentially, people talk about the three B's, but it really is the 2B's. Bard is just like the guys the yankees took, unproven and lacking any minor league resume.

I believe that means he requires strict coaching and will fall out of line rather quickly if he is not "maintained." But if he is coached well and often, then he will be a good pitcher.

I missed this post 10 days ago, but it is pretty funny. I can see it now, JD Drew to the 15 day DL because he got AIDS from some kung pow chicken.

Another thing that kinda sticks out for Bard is that he was actually pretty average in college against college competition. A kid with that kind of heat should not have an era in the mid 3's.

I saw this on another site, that the press conference is for a Zambrano pact, but thus far it has been unsubstantiated.

But being coached and actually doing it is an entirely different thing. Not everyone can do it, even with the best of coaching. Not everyone can revamp an entire repertoire like Paps and Hughes have. At the same time, when you have that kind of arm, you lean on it early. That is why the best guys IMO are the ones who develop their repertoire then get bigger/stronger and start to throw harder. At that point they have developed secondary pitches and have a mindset of a finesse pitcher, but the stuff of a power pitcher. Bard sounds like a great example of a kid with an amazing arm who never bothered to develop his stuff. And since he hasnt thrown one pitch, we have no idea how he will adapt to the coaching. But the change could be immediate who knows. One example of immediate change is the kid we drafted in the 8th round, Dellin Betances. 6-8 skinny as a rail kid who came out of HS throwin upper 80s, low 90s with no breaking stuff and a couple weeks in, was working with Nardi Contreras. He developed one of the best curves in the system, has a changeup that he actually used and was throwing mid to upper 90s consistently. Put that to Bard. Imagine if the coaching staff for the sox could get the kid to throw a plus curve with location and a plus changeup while ironing out mechanics to get his heat into the triple digits. Some kids have IT. They are coachable, they learn fast and make themselves better. Some dont. Bard will get his chance this yr to see on which side of that fence he lies.

I continue to see people split on the three B's, so lets see how split you all are. I think Bowden is the kid to keep. Youngest of the three, has some power, the most developed secondary pitches and will likely be brought along slowly. His control is phenomenal as well.

Yes he does. He has a fantastic arm. But Beckett had that curve. Verlander has a SICK slurve. Bard has the heat. Thats about it. I have said before, that you need to be comfortable with 3 pitches to be a starter. They dont need to be plus, they dont even need to be good, but they need to be a change in speed, have some movement, and have control. I have been pondering this with guys like Sanchez on the yankees. He has the fastball, he has a hell of a curve, but his changeup hasnt developed yet. If the change develops, then he'll be a starter. With Bard, his breaking ball and changeup need to be refined or he will be meat the second or third time through a lineup.

I think this kid is pegged as a future reliever. Throws ched, but it sounds like his secondary pitches lag well behind his heat.

by bridges I mean guys who are signed for 2 yrs and we know they arent long term solutions.

oh no, I wont be. I am hoping our kids work out. Our rotation has been in shambles since we tried to go after guys coming off career yrs and making dumbass trades dealing away prospects. We have a solid pitcher in Wang, a guy who should eat innings in Igawa and 3 bridges for prospects to fill. I am hoping that Hughes fills one for a long time and the others are a conglomerate of our prospects or something we conjure up in trade. These kids cannot be worse than Wright, Chacon, Lidle, etc were last yr.

Big flaw with that theory ORS. Chicago is a big market. So is StL. Minny is not.

I know you are giving me crap, LOL. Just more proof that good, young pitching just cannot be bought this day and age. You have to develop it, and that is what we are trying to do.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070119&content_id=1782157&vkey=pr_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc it is a s***** link, but the cubs have called a press conference and speculation is that they have agreed.

http://patriots.aolsportsblog.com/2006/11/27/tom-bradys-balls-are-the-only-balls-i-need/ this is very very funny.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/01/19/padres.wells.ap/index.html so his talk with the jays was all a bunch of s***.

Jack and I are not good friends mon ami. Last night, me and Jack had a sojourn into the depths of my mind and I was still hurting at 2pm today.

I meant it for sure. It was guys like Trot, Mueller, Millar (when he was good) etc who made the sox who they were. Guys who stepped up when it counted, got on base, went balls out on every play, and HATED the yankees. They fueled the rivalry. Too many mercs on both sides have made this a fans rivalry. But you knew Trot HATED the yankees, and he made it his mission to own them. He is a guy who made the rivalry rev. He will be missed, even if he was a bosox bastard who nearly clubbed the sox to the WS in 03.

42 is Felix Doubront 41 is Tim Cox

this is a very solid post Mr. C. Puts things into perspective.

glad that guy is gone. WHEW. He OWNED Roger Clemens. He owned us. His OPS vs NYY the last 3 yrs was +.092 vs his average. He stepped up and LOVED the yankee short porch. That was one tough bastard, best of luck Trot.