seabeachfred

You laid it out pretty accurately in the post previous to the one I'm responding to. We need a lot of luck and good breaks to get back into the high life Sox Sport. Rooting for the Red Sox is like riding from the pent house to the outhouse. Just when you think things are rolling they come to a grinding halt. It looked to me that Fredo was on a role last week and t hat the momentum was on our side, but just like that he pulled in his umbrella and went into hiding. If the market is screaming three year contracts for pitchers just as it seems to be for the position players, the Red Sox are going to have to barf or get away from the sink. Where I slightly disagree with you is when you say the pitching available out there may not be better than what we have now. I think it is a lot better than having to depend on guys like Franklin (can't be the Yankees) Morales, a recovering John Lackey and a Felix Doubrant who may be just a journeyman after all is said and done. Sure, Lester and Buchholz could be a solid Nos. 1 and 2 but we've been e xpecting this for the past few years and have been disappointed. I'm not getting my hopes up for those two guys to change their spots.

Pitchers are flying off the radar screen now and all Fredo Cherington can do is dither and rest on his position signing laurels. I don't k now what the hell he's waiting for because it is as plain as the schnoz on his face that we need at least one and more likely two starting pitchers if we want to compete for something next season besides the basement. Bailey, Jackson, Lohse, somebody, damn it. We all know this; Cherington has to also. He must just bust his ass harder and get the job done----and very soon before all the prospective candidates are either signed or extended.

That's encouraging 07. It's been sort of a downer today reading about how the damn Dodgers are signing everyone for tons of money while we cannot even nab a starting pitcher worthy of the name. Maybe things might work out after all....maybe.

Could or should, y es, but it isn't working with Lester and Buchholz. I get the feeling they are not mentally equipped to assume such a role and may no longer be physically able to either. Of course, you mention medical staff and right there we all know how inept we've been in that department, but what of our pitching coaches. In 2011 we got the one from Oakland none of the pitchers listened much to him and he didn't push it after awhile. Last season we had McClure and all I can say to that is.....ARE YOU f***ING KIDDING ME? The guy had failed and was fired by two other teams before we hired him. As for now, we get this dodo Nieves who had never been a ML pitching coach for any team. How the hell can y ou build a solid staff when you hire garbage like this? Even Farrell crapped out after his first two years with us, allowing the inept FrancoMa to pretty much overrule him on many key occasions.

The FA pitchers are starting to drop like flies and we are still noodling along and doing nothing to fix our rotation. Again, Lester and Buchholz are not mentally equipped to take on the roles of Nos. 1 and 2. They aren't that mentally tough, and may not be physically able either. I just wonder if Fredo (Cherington) disagrees and is determined to go with what we have and hope those two birds, plus Lackey and Doubrant can handle the load. If we go the trade route it is going to cost us talent, make no mistake about that. Ben did a pretty good job IMO in getting us some reinforcements at the plate and in the field, but for some reason he needs to get busy with the pitching.

If the Red Sox are really interested in Josh Hamilton they had better not dither. Everything now seems to point to the Yankees suddenly getting into the mix and if they do he will end up in the Bronx. This is their MO and they have done this before. They feign no interest, watch other teams feint and fake and then blow by them. I believe Hamilton needs to be signed as soon as possible IF the Red Sox are really interested in him because you better believe that with A-Rod gone they could use a LH power man and Josh would be devastating in their ballpark. IMHO the Red Sox have no more time to lose on this.

Ellsbury is a major chip we have for procuring a good pitcher but not just by himself. It will take a catcher and a very decent prospect to bring this about because every team knows we need pitching and good pitchers are expensive on the trading market as well as FA. If we wait to trade Ellsbury later in the season the chances are at least 50-50 that he is going to be on the disabled list and we couldn't get a good bag of balls for him. He is a terrific talent but he is brittle and as one person said on this board, HE NEEDS TO GROW A PAIR. He has become a real candy ass taking eons to heal from his injuries. Now is the time to package him in a trade if we really want to make a challenge for a playoff spot next season in my honest opinion.

LS, I can understand your concern about the Victorino signing. I have concerns too especially since he didn't look good after he was traded to the Dodgers this past summer. He hit too many grounders to second from the left side and too many short flies to left from the right. However, I have learned from people here and on another board that he had a bad hand injury that bothered him most of the season and just the fact that he didn't weasel out of the lineup or spend his time mending the rest of the season like some OF I know tells me he is a gamer. There are also some other things to keep in mind. 1. He flourished in Philly, a tougher place to play than Boston. 2. He has always been a gamer and stays on the field and leaves it all on there. 3. The Guardians were hot on his tail and were offering a four year contract at $44 million. 4. There were at least two other teams also making a move for him. 5. He is a good teammate and clubhouse person and his old friends on the Phillies loved him for his competiveness and dirt dog mentality. What say we give this a chance to work. Sure I had questions but something tells me he is going to be a helluva lot better than some of the people we ran out there the last two months of this season.

Any time a Red Sox fan or Red Sox front office official hears the term "swoop in and grab", be damn sure you're thinking about the Yankees. Twice within this decade Lucchino, Henry and Company have been taken with their pants down when the Yanks "swooped" in and took Damon and then Teixeira away from us. I keep hearing the Red Sox are still interested in Hamilton. If so they better keep their pants on and offer him a top notch contract and ink him. If they're not interested in him they better understand this is the perfect storm for the Yankees and it is how they have operated the last decade.

BSN, I take it you're talking about Iglesias and not Gonzales. I don't want Gonzales back here under any circustances. He's flopped twice with us. Let him go somewhere else. As for Iggy, he does have to show that he can hit some and right now that doesn't seem a possibility. I just hope they keep Bogaerts at shortstop and not move him anywhere else. I love the idea of a power hitting SS and with our pitching staff questionable for possibly another couple of years I want every bat I can get in that lineup. To me it would be totally foolhardly to move Bogie to another spot and supplant what might be a good hitter in the OF or infield and keep a totally inept bat in the lineup.

Hey Jung, I have been one of Ben's more severest critics but what's fair is fair. He has done a helluva job at the Winter Meetings and I have gained new confidence in the guy and he has earned it. I'm told that Lucchino and Henry aren't in Nashville and while he can get ahold of them by phone it does seem that he has kind of acted independently in the Napoli and Victorino signings. His work is still not over but so far he is getting an A- from me for his work so far. Keep it up Ben. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Yes you do Forsyth. We're paying Gomes that money to be a bench warmer and we still need pitchers not named Dempster (and why the hell would anyone think he could be effective for us....didn't we catch his act when the Cubs traded him to Texas). Ellsbury is our best trading chip. He is going to be out of Boston after next season anyway; why not just get something good for him and let the injury prone tin man being someone else's concern. We move Victorino to CF, Hamilton in RF and a Gomes-Kalish platoon in LF, and, yes, we have to give Kalish a shot. The guy has talent and could turn out to be a very pleasant surprise.

Come on please....not this guy again. We've had twice already and found him wanting. A very good fielder but getting older, can't hit in the AL, poor plate discipline, lousy OBP and totally wedded to one position. We can do better than this guy. Please, we already saved his ass once before in 2006 when we prevented him from being out of baseball with a late winter signing after all o ther clubs turned thumbs down on him. We got him again a few years later and he was no better. Let him continue his mediocre career somewhere else.

It seems most of us have come to the conclusion that Ellsbury is traded or needs to be traded for pitching, but personally I'm thinking the Hamilton caper is holding things up. Is he going back to Texas on a big contract or are the Rangers determined to sign Greinke? I keep believing we are in the running for the guy, but by the same token something tells me his status will drag out unless some team makes him an offer he just can't refuse and it happens to be us we had better have a trade for Ells ready or we will have a glut in the OF>

Do I detect an ounce or two of sarcasm there MVP? First of all, who the hell in their right mind would eat at Denny's in the first place? The food there is s*** for the birds and is usually undercooked or overcooked, unless the Denny's in your Eastern neighborhood is better that the crudpile ones we have out here in once again sunny So. Cal. As for Cherries, I'm still not completely sold on him but he has at least opened my eyes and shown that he can pull the trigger on a deal, and the fact that he got us a very good one IMHO with Napoli augers well for future success on his part. His Victorino signing? Well, not so good IMHO/

While I'm fine with the Napoli signing I'm even less enamored with the Victorino inking that I was yesterday. Among the plethora of problems with his signing is the fact that he has become totally undisciplined at the plate, usually swinging at anything he sees. I saw him a lot on TV when the Dodgers got him last summer and he looked like he was fading badly, slow on the fast ball and very little power. Unless they are looking to trade their paper mache CF and move Shane there this signing looks like a horseshit one to me, and it will look even worse tomorrow.

WMB ought to develop into a solid third baseman who will be a fixture for the Red Sox for over a decade unless the team does something stupid and trades him. His throwing will get better with experience and Napoli isn't exactly a total zero at first base. With solid work in ST he will get better. I really can't see anything but a positive take on the Napoli signing. He can play first, catch some games, occasionally DH and he packs some solid RH power in a park where he has had a field day of days in the past. As for his being now a Red Sox, someone ask Jon Lester what he thinks of having him on his side from here on in. Now the Victorino signing? Well I have some doubts about that.

Or maybe Hamilton is still deep on the Red Sox rader. We all know Lucchino's lust for big splashes and being able to huckster tickets. I still see a possibility of Ells and his injuries being sent away and then maybe moving Shane to center and Hamilton signed to play right. Since Josh can also play CF it would mean we have two crack defensive outfielders playing some the toughest center and right fields in baseball. But will someone tell me where the pitching is coming from if we don't trade Ellsbury?

Somehow I cannot see the Victorino signing as the finis to our winter shopping. I have to think there is more on the way. We still need pitching and Ellsbury is our best bargaining chip at the moment. True, he is only one year away from FA and with Boras as agent he is not going to sign an extention with us or any team we trade him to. Therefore, it will take more than him to net us a solid starting pitcher. One would think intuitively and see a possibility of a trade of the guy for pitching and then an all out assault for Josh Hamilton who would play right while Victorino moves to center. Remember, too, that Josh could also play CF if he had to so we would have two good defensive OF's in positions where you need them badly in Fenway Park.

Then we have to assume BSN that Shane just had an off year this season and is young enough to stage a comeback season or two or three. If so, we're fine; if not, we may be in deep s***!!!!!!!. No one should be asking for Cherington's head on this. We just have to see how this plays out now that he is in Red Sox livery, but I think we could have done better. I like his defense and I like his speed and I like his attitude, but I;m not sure I like his bat, and, let's face it, we was brought in mostly because we are counting on him to hit well again.

If we're also trying to clean up the clubhouse why on earth would we want this POS. He is a total turd with a miserable attitude. Don't g o there Cherington. Stay far away from this guy.

Victorino is ours now whether we like it or not......I don't care that much for it because I thought we could have done better. I saw him on TV a lot out here in LA and he looked like he was fading badly. Maybe he needed a new venue and a new challenge. He was a solid player before t he 2012 season. He can field and run and was a good hitter until this year as well as a good clubhouse man. I just hope he doesn't turn out to be another Mike Cameron because that guy was plain s*****.

To me Forsyth, it all comes down to who wants Hamilton and how badly they want to sign him. If teams muddle around with each team going back and forth offering a contract that doesn't sit well with him, the talks could drag on for weeks. IF the Red Sox really want him as I suspect, they need to move to make him a big offer. If I am wrong and there is no interest in him on the part of our front office, then move in on Swisher and get the outfield settled before the pitchers disappear. Oh yes, one just did. Dan Haren just ok'd a deal with the Nationals.

Well said Palodios. A helluva move, and it opens up new potential doors for further signings and trades. We now have comodities that other teams need, just as long as the front office doesn't forget that we need a couple of pitchers thrown in there to help in that critical area. My take is if we are really interested in Hamilton as I hinted at yesterday, and if the talks between him and teams don't drag on for weeks, I think we sign him and then quickly make moves either the FA way (Haren) or through trades. BTW, it Shawn Marcum a FA or still under contract? One of those two would be nice, two of them would be better.

A lot of us on this board were pretty pissed over the lack of movement for the past month and yesterday's signing of Mike Napoli changed all that......certainly for me. We added a versatile RH power hitter, opened up avenues for a possible trade of one of our catchers, maybe put in the race for Josh Hamilton, and finally maybe making moves to upgrade our starting rotation. Cherington made a good move yesterday and now most of us think we might be on the right trail......some progress, that is all most of us were asking for. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: