GhostofMalzone

That shot that theory all to hell, didn't it It sucks getting old.

Your right, It was a nice recovery.....I also believe that the Renteria trade was a direct result of Damon being signed by the Yankees. The Sox needed a center fielder but they weren't going to give up anyone from the farm for one. They shopped Renteria around knowing they could pick up another short-stop somewhere. The Braves were willing to give up Martie(I think that's how it's spelled?) for Renteria and a little more Knowing the Sox needed him for trade and the Sox knowing Cleveland needed a third basemen and had Crisp on the block. If Damon hadn't signed with the Yankees and stayed with the Sox would they have traded Renteria? I don't think so

The Red Sox got caught with their pants down in the Johnny Damon fiasco. Lucchino and his Two Stooges held a press conference on national TV (ESPN) about a player they DIDN'T sign. The excuses was, "We heard about it on the news" Sound familiar? It's the same excuses they used last year when Manny wanted to be traded, "We didn't know Manny wanted to be traded? Someone leaked the story and we heard about it on the news" Do the people in the Red Sox front office actually do any work? or do they just sit around and listen to the news? How stupid do they think the fans are? They work in the front office of The Boston Red Sox it's their job to know, It's what they get paid for. Their telling me that they didn't know Damon was about to sign with the Yankees "It came as a compleat Surprise" to them. s***, I'm just a fan and I knew that the Yankees needed a center fielder, and the Yankees loved the idea of signing Damon away from the Sox and for 13 million more, 13 million that's chump change to these guys, Manny makes 3 times that a year and unlike Manny, Damon mentally showed up for every game at least. It's their business to know everything that's going on with their chief competition even before it happens. Letting Damon sign with the Yankees and trading Renteria to the Braves were the two front office moves that brought Theo back. The Crisp deal may turn out to be a good one? only time will tell. But, don't let anyone kid you, if it was handled right, Damon would still be with the Sox, and contrary to popular belief Boras works for Damon, Not the other way around.

Seabeachfred, I'm 58 be 59 next month, It doesn't matter when you found the Red Sox, What matters is that you did find them. Feel lucky, you missed a lot of frustrating years. I once had a lot of hair on my head, If it wasn't for past Red Sox teams I'd still have most of it. But, I got to say, It was worth the ride. Welcome Aboard :thumbsup:

I really don't think anyone is looking "Down on anyone" who has a Red Sox Nation card. Like you said, If it makes them feel closer to the team? Then the card has served it's purpose and is well worth the $10 dollars they spent on it. I also think that it's not the card that gets people, It's the marketing behind the card that's questionable. When this whole concept first came out it was the language in the marketing that made it sound like, "if you didn't have one you were less of a fan", and I think that set a lot of fans back. especially the older ones (myself included) we never had to prove our loyalty before, never did the Yawkey's or Haywood Sullivan or even the money grubbing Buddy LeRoux put a price on loyalty, and that's what I find offensive. If the people in marketing for the Red Sox want Red Sox Nation to carry cards, Then give them away...Free, to each and every fan that wants one. Yeah, This probably is a good time to drop this whole thing.

How in the hell can carrying around a plastic card make anyone feel like more of a fan? All right, You save 20% on merchandise so now you only pay 80% of the mark up. Don't you card carrying members get some kind of newsletter also? Besides being a Baseball team, the Red Sox are also a business with the soul purposes of making money, anyway they can. If it's now considered "Red Sox Nation" then a lot of us old timers (some older then others) were around when it must have been considered "Red Sox Village". Over the years the Red Sox have gotten enough of my money. I don't need to pay $10 bucks a year to carry around a card telling me something I already know. "I'm a Red Sox fan" Kyahbean, Is a Red Sox fan, Show a little respect. Personally, I'd rather have Margaritas sifting between my toes. But, The colors of the rainbow is a good thing

Try this on.... Torre as manager of The Red Sox and Francona as manager of The Yankee's. how would both teams end the 06 season?

Welcome,

I'm not sure who you were answering here? But, That's my point, You can't compare Torre to Tito. I read posts trying to do it all the time. I think Tito will be around for quite some time. He won us a World Series and with the right moves by the front office and if the kids on the farm turn out to be all their cracked up to be? Then we should be a bonfire contender. But, On the other hand, If guys like Beckett, Lowell, Tavarez, Loretta, Gonzales don't turn out like the brain trust thinks they will? If Schilling and Foulke aren't healthy? If Timlin don't turn out like Embree did last year? If Clement's second half can be as good as his first half? If Wakefield's got another season left in him? If they can't trade Wells? If Papelbon don't live up to the hype? If Manny's still with us? A lot of unanswered questions still surrounding this team. And if this season starts going south? Yeah..I can see them making Tito the scapegoat. Even if he didn't have any control over what was going wrong. I don't trust this Front office even with Theo back. Not after the Damon fiasco "We heard about it on the radio" What ******** that was.

Thank you for the complement 26 to 6. Torre was hired by The Yankee's on November 2, 1995 The way I look at it, When he put pen to paper he was a Yankee.

For some on this site Terry Francona seems to be the poster- child for all the things that are or ever will be wrong with the Sox. He won us a World Series in his first season as skipper....Big Deal. Let's face it...... He's no Joe Torre.......Or is he? Tito's been managing in the majors for 6 years in his fifth year he came to the Sox and won a World Series.(First year with the club) Joe Torre managed 14 years in the majors and on his fifteenth year he came to the Yankees and won a World Series.(First year with the club) In Tito's second year The Red Sox finished 95-67 2nd in the division. In Torre's second year with The Yankees (97) they finished 96-66 2nd in the division. Tito was 38 and Torre was 37 years old when they became major league managers. Both had close family in major league baseball. John (Tito) Francona 17 seasons, Terry's Dad. Frank Torre 7 seasons, Joe's Brother. Both were considered " Managers with Losing Records " before they came to their respective clubs. Torre in 95, Tito in 04. In their first six seasons as major league managers. Torre first year in 1977 he was a player/manager for a 117 games. In 1981 they only played 105 games in a split season, From 77 to 81 he managed 709 games with the Mets. In 82 he went to Atlanta and managed 162 games that would have given him 871 games. So I gave him the 83 season of 162 games to make up for the 77 and 81 seasons that gave him 1043 games 71 games more then Tito's 972. I tried to get the number of games close to show the wins/losses in the first 6 years of both managerial careers. (To be fair I subtracted *71 games from the 567 losses for Torre, That gave him the same amount of games as Tito for that 6 year span) Torre was 476-*496 in *972 games and no Championship. Francona was 478-494 in 972 games with a World Series Championship. That's close in anyones book..Red Sox or Yankee fans. Torre's had 2540 more games (18 more years) then Tito to learn from his mistakes, 20320 innings......that's a lot of baseball. I read the comparisons all the time between the two, and you just can't compare them. You can only compare the first 6 years. If Red Sox or Yankee fans want to compear Torre to any other active managers it would have to be, Bobby Cox 24 years 3698 games or Tony La Russa 28 years 4125 games. Give Tito another 2540 games and he could become another Joe Torre.....It could happen.

The Rocket and Pedro on the same team..BOOM! Those two egos together would have never worked out. It would have been a circus....the media would of loved it. But, It would have been disaster for the team. I think Roger will listen to the offer The Sox make him. But I don't think he'll take it, Too much water under the bridge between himself and the organization. He still has a fan base in New England, So he can't come right out and tell the Sox to go s*** in their hat....even if he wanted too. He might be wearing that hat when he goes into Cooperstown. It's politics...No matter how he feel's about Boston, Smile, Listen, and say: No Thank You. The game of Baseball is pretty much behind Roger now. The Hall of Fame is what's in front of him....It's all about image now. Yankee's or Rangers...If he play's this year at all?

It's the old saying, "You dance with the one that brought you"

OK...So what exactly are you saying here? We won it all in 04, So his moves during that season must not have been all that bad. The perfect manager hasn't been born yet, Or likely ever will be.

I found this post on another BoSox site. A sure sign of spring. Like the crocus, iris and potholes the Tito bashers also bloom with the coming of the season. "IT IS SO funny to me that most people are overlooking the fact that as long as francona is with the sox they have no chance of winning the world series. ....this team isnt close to as good as the 2004 team that overcame francona's inept coaching.. PLEASE FIRE THIS BALD MORON!" (the globe site) It makes you wonder? If a couple ( possibly? closely related to begin with, before marriage) living in a cabin in Moosescrew, Maine with the words, "Popeye never got a break" spray painted in red across the side of an old Buick convertible which also doubles as a planter and bath tub, are producing offspring at an alarming rate. Frightening Is anyone else glad that the "Jerome (Bus) Bettis" feel good story is finely over? Kudos, Joe an Terry it's a good thing that your not in it only for the money. It's good to be an ex-super star

Welcome Monster and Rosey, Nice knowledgeable Red Sox fans on this site. You folks should really like it here. It would take 33,683 years to vacuum the state of Ohio

Thanks for the responses folks. I would sure as hell hate to see him go also. The combo of him and Big Papi is the best in the business. Anyone think Clemens will sign on with us again? The guys on ESPN seem to think it's within the realm of possibility. Maybe Theo can make up for the blunder of Dirty Dan The Duke of Dalton. Anyway....It was just a thought.

How's it going gang? It's almost time for us to get in line for Baseball's equivalent of a Thrill Ride, The 06 Boston Red Sox Season, and it can't come soon enough for me. Anyway, What's the story with Manny? With Theo coming back and The Coco deal dominating the news it seems that Manny has kind of fallen off the radar screen, Plus..I've been without a computer since December and just got back online last week. I was Red Sox-News-Poor for almost 2 months and my wife wouldn't let me watch ESPNnews 24/7(Although I did try) So, Has he made peace with The Sox?(For Now) or is a trade Inevitable? I sure do like the Coco deal...............Johnny Who? For those of you who care? at Disney's Animal Kingdom they just opened it's new $100 Million roller coaster called Expedition Everest, as big an fast as The Hulk at Universal. So, If your coming to this part of Florida (Orlando/Kissimmee) this spring and are going to Disney make it a point to ride "The Double E" It's a snot bubbler.

Interesting reading about how some Dodger fans feel about "Moneyball" From the site, Dodger Blue.com 11/5/05 Within a few days of Paul DePodesta's firing, two things became clear: (1) No one wants to be the guy to replace him, and (2) a lot of people wanted to have sex with him. Let's start with number one. The general manager job is open in one of baseball's most storied franchises, and no one seems interested. Pat Gillick chose Philly. Gerry Hunsicker chose Tampa Bay. Kevin Towers chose to stay in San Diego. And John Hart, who the Dodgers are luring, is apparently thinking twice about the opportunity. You can't blame any of them. What was once a dream job in baseball circles has become the summer job at Arby's that you fall back on when you can't find anything else. People once lined up for interviews with the Dodgers. Now people change their phone numbers so no one from the Dodgers can call them. Poor Kim Ng has nowhere to hide. Now onto number two. It's already been well-established that the McCourts are insane and fired DePodesta largely because they couldn't handle the media pressure. We're not going to dwell on that. What we want to talk about is the fan reaction to the firing. More than anything, the firing revealed the dichotomy that's emerged in baseball: that of traditionalists vs. statisticians. When DePodesta was fired, it wasn't just Dodger fans who were upset. In fact, those who were the most upset weren't even Dodger fans at all—they were fans of Sabermetrics. DePodesta was one of their heroes. The firing was a kick in the balls to each and every one of them. And they fought back. They bitched, they argued, and they wrote—and because they're generally intelligent people, they wrote a lot. And because they're so goddamn full of themselves, they wrote about how the average baseball fan just doesn't understand the genius of the Sabermetrics approach. What's amazing is that more and more people seem to be jumping on this Billy Beane bandwagon. What's depressing is that—at least in our opinion—they're jumping on it not because they truly believe in it, but because it's the "in" thing. The iPod nano... ringtones... Sabermetrics. Truth be told, our problem is not with Sabermetrics itself—it's with the Sabermetricians who think it's the be all and end all. While there's definite legitimacy to OPS and WHIP, you simply can't build a successful, fan-friendly team with statistics alone. Unfortunately, these people are too smart for their own good. They discount the intangibles of sports, believing instead that the solution is purely in the numbers. Forgive our lack of sophistication, but that's ********. If it were purely in the numbers, Scott Posednik and Geoff Blum wouldn't have hit game-winning home runs that brought the White Sox a World Championship. If it were purely in the numbers, the 1988 Dodgers would not have beat the Mets, and sure as hell wouldn't have beat the mighty A's. Sorry, Sabers, but in sports it's more than the numbers. Not to columnist David Damiani, though, who wrote this in an article about the DePodesta firing:"Heart in modern sports writing is the last refuge of a scoundrel who doesn’t care to make an effort to understand his topic and has abject contempt for his subject and audience." Hey David, don't fall when you get off your high horse. Prick. The big problem is that people seem to think you've got to be one or the other—you've either got to be a crusty traditionalist or a stat geek. There's no reason for it to be so black and white, though. How about a nice shade of travelling grey? It's called balance. Somewhere in between Paul DePodesta and Tommy Lasorda lies that balance. Let's hope the Dodgers' next GM can find it—if they ever find him. (Or her.) Comments anyone?

Sox fan on Cape, Do you have some type of problem with me posting on this site? If you do? Say So, If not? Then I think I’m entitled to my owen opinion (No matter how unfounded you may think they are) BTW, I thought I had deleted the first post. I’m terribly Sorry.

I didn’t realize that the Globe needed any credibility. I thought it was understood that the Globe was the print voice of the Red Sox, and how would the Sox profit by leaking the Manny story other then to draw heat away from the Theo negotiations. Then again, I haven’t lived in New England for the past 10 years and rely mainly on the Internet for any Red Sox information.

I didn’t realize that the Globe needed any credibility. I thought it was understood that the Globe was the print voice of the Red Sox, and how would the Sox profit by leaking the Manny story other then to draw heat away from the Theo negotiations. Then again, I haven’t lived in New England for the past 10 years and rely mainly on the Internet for any Red Sox information.

I wonder about the timing of this, “Manny wants to be traded” statement. The Sox and Theo are in contract talks and a lot of dirty laundry about the inner-workings and of the organization has been aired to the public. From what I make of this and this is only my own “opinion” is that, Manny isn’t a big fan of Lucchino’s, But gets along fine with Theo. It would be inappropriate for Manny (or any other player on the team) to say anything directly about the talks between Lucchino and Theo to the media. In the article in the Globe it said that, “Manny wants to be traded”, But would “consider staying with the Sox” What would make Manny “consider staying with the Sox”? It’s not the money, It’s not playing time, It’s not notoriety, I can’t see the Sox giving Manny anymore then he’s already got. Unless?, Manny wants to influences the outcome of the negotiations between Lucchino and Theo indirectly. It’s the timing of the Manny statment that makes me wonder? Is Manny on Theo’s side? Without coming right out and saying he’s on Theo’s side. Don’t forget this statement came out right in the middle of the uncertainty about Theo’s future with the Sox.

MONEYBALL, The catch phrase for the sabermetric baseball generation. Let’s find players with high on-base percentages and slugging percentages and forget about the fundamentals like stolen bases or putting the ball in play. It’s more important to avoid an out then it is to get a hit. Brilliant, Lets let a guy like Michael Lewis who has spent his career (not in baseball) but writing about Wall Street investors change the face of baseball. Look at Billy Beane and the Oakland A’s good winning percentage in the regular season, But zip in the post-season. What has MONEYBALL done for the A’s? Beane is one of moneyballs biggest proponents (I thank the baseball gods that he turned down the job in Boston when they offered it to him) if he ran the show we still wouldn’t have won a World Series. But, If you believe that this philosophy is the wave of the future then get ready for some very mediocre play by the Sox until the reinforcements arrive from the farm and when they do arrive are they going to be everything they’re cracked up to be? I’ve followed The Red Sox for 50 years and I’ve heard name after name come out of the farm system and attached to it was the same speculation every time “This kid is going to be great” names like Brian Rose, Aaron Sele, Frankie Rodriguez, Sam Horn, John Marzano, Bobby Ojeda, Scott Copper, Casey Fossom and the list goes on and on.. Unfortunately when they come up from the farm they don’t come with a guarantee. Clemens, Rice, Lynn, Oil Can, Fisk, Yaz, V-Tec to name just a few that came out of the system made it. But I can assure you that for every one that made it 2 or 3 didn’t. It’s a gamble a 50/50 shot at best. Look at Dustin Pedroia the kid was hitting .324 in Portland AA then he hits .255 with the Pawsox. What makes you think he’s anywhere near ready for the majors with less then a full year under his belt in AAA ball? Abe Alvarez ERA 4.85 143 hits in a 144 innings in AAA. Lester, Sanchez, Hensen are still in AA. Yes the kids can bring smoke, But it’s nothing the hitters around the league haven’t seen before. Do you really think a 97 MPH fast ball by a kid (Like Hensen) that was in AA ball less then 9 months ago is going to intimidate a hitter like Sheffield or Konerko or A-Rod or any other big thumper in the AL. If you do your sadly mistaken. They’ll hit him like a Red-Headed Stepchild. Lets just hope your “bang for the buck” doesn’t go “pop for the pennys” and that Theo can find those hard nosed role players. If your trying to tell me that moneyball had anything to do with us winning the World Series? Well, Son that’s just plain bull-s***. We won the ALCS and The Series because we got HOT at just the right time. We won 8 games in a row....When it counted.

My, Aren’t we huffy...... 1. Has Ortiz never played firstbase? I believe he has and if he was playing first the baseball community would not have a debate over who is the MVP. (Show me a player that’s not playing without some type of physical problem. and if you remember at the beginning of the year he asked Tito for more playing time at first) 2. Yes I did say make Damon an “OFFER” if he takes it FINE if not find another center fielder, either way the Red Sox are going to have to pay and The Sox aren’t going to find his equal for peanuts. What he lacks in the field he makes up for at the plate. 3. I would love to see Soriano at second base, I would love to see any Sox player steal 30 bases and hit 30 HR. Do you think no other team in baseball isn’t going to inquire into his availability. If the price is right get him, If not, PASS. ( I like Tony G but a Soriano he’s not) Am I being LUCID Enough for you so far? 4. Budgets in baseball is an oxymoron and who do The Red Sox have a financial responsibilty to? Themselves? They Owen (A small part is owend by a paper in New York that John Henry has shares in) the team and the park. So the only one John Henry has to answer to financially is John Henry. Your right in saying that all fans pay indirectly tickets, caps, t-shirts, coffee-mugs, anything and everything that has the Red Sox logo on it royalties filter back to the origination and we’re talking millions and millions of dollars here in revenue just from the sales of merchandise alone. If the Red Sox were to field a team like the D Rays the fans in Red Sox Naiton would be up in arms. So is it so unjustified to expect The Red Sox to field the best team in baseball? If you were going to a restaurant for dinner would you not expect every facet of your dinning experience to be of the highest quality? You should, Your paying for it. Just as we pay for the Red Sox, Nothing less then the best should be tolerated. And what if they spend $200 million on a team and that team wins the series in 06 and 07 and 08 are you going to bitch? are you going to say, They could have done it cheaper. So before you start questioning other peoples rationale, Maybe you should ask yourself, Who the hell am I to belittle someone’s opinion