Plumpamania

Jackson, in all my time here, I think this our 2nd agreement.

This isn't MLB the Show.

They are somewhat close, but still a very distinct difference, and not one that I would be willing to partake in as far as the difference in player at Coors and away from Coors. Fenway is a hitter's park, that's no doubt, but c'mon man. MLB Park Factors - Through October 15, 2012 RK PARK NAME RUNS HR H 2B 3B BB 1 Coors Field (Denver, Colorado) 1.579 1.493 1.276 1.223 1.971 1.082 2 U.S. Cellular Field (Chicago, Illinois) 1.268 1.349 1.081 1.133 0.885 1.206 3 Fenway Park (Boston, Massachusetts) 1.206 1.088 1.173 1.494 1.389 1.036 4 Rangers Ballpark in Arlington (Arlington, Texas) 1.183 1.168 1.117 1.157 1.029 1.000 5 Oriole Park at Camden Yards (Baltimore, Maryland) 1.173 1.314 1.099 1.065 0.684 1.027 6 Chase Field (Phoenix, Arizona) 1.171 1.192 1.064 1.176 1.176 0.955 7 Miller Park (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) 1.168 1.631 0.997 0.987 1.333 1.060 8 Great American Ball Park (Cincinnati, Ohio) 1.113 1.592 1.017 0.848 1.167 1.036 9 Comerica Park (Detroit, Michigan) 1.071 1.026 1.031 0.923 1.533 0.977 10 Target Field (Minneapolis, Minnesota) 1.044 1.031 1.030 0.989 1.905 1.082 11 Turner Field (Atlanta, Georgia) 1.038 0.873 1.011 1.197 1.040 1.038 12 Kauffman Stadium (Kansas City, Missouri) 1.034 1.028 1.037 1.025 1.257 0.987 13 Wrigley Field (Chicago, Illinois) 1.024 0.962 0.981 1.077 0.930 1.134 14 Nationals Park (Washington, D.C.) 1.023 1.044 1.063 1.000 1.192 0.944 15 Rogers Centre (Toronto, Ontario) 1.008 1.030 0.992 1.075 1.312 0.914 16 Marlins Park (Miami, FL) 1.005 0.720 0.995 0.938 1.257 1.027 17 Yankee Stadium (New York, NY) 0.992 1.143 0.927 0.881 0.423 1.008 18 Busch Stadium (St. Louis, Missouri) 0.985 0.915 1.047 1.137 0.816 0.950 19 Citizens Bank Park (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) 0.968 1.087 0.952 0.989 0.710 1.080 20 Minute Maid Park (Houston, Texas) 0.937 0.981 0.968 0.954 0.914 1.047 21 Progressive Field (Cleveland, Ohio) 0.899 0.925 0.985 1.038 0.326 0.957 22 O.co Coliseum (Oakland, California) 0.888 0.859 0.927 0.837 1.091 1.016 23 Citi Field (New York, NY) 0.874 1.069 0.918 0.785 0.629 0.966 Tropicana Field (St. Petersburg, Florida) 0.874 0.774 0.914 0.922 1.286 1.004 25 Dodger Stadium (Los Angeles, California) 0.867 1.125 0.972 0.824 0.486 0.973 26 Petco Park (San Diego, California) 0.854 0.626 0.960 0.967 1.257 1.004 27 Angel Stadium of Anaheim (Anaheim, California) 0.812 0.759 0.906 0.909 1.095 0.769 28 PNC Park (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) 0.764 0.631 0.871 1.037 0.718 0.796 29 AT&T Park (San Francisco, California) 0.737 0.522 0.901 0.893 0.808 1.021 30 Safeco Field (Seattle, Washington) 0.687 0.583 0.831 0.709 0.528 1.002

What's left on VMart's contract -- I can't look it up at the moment.

Cherington was never handed the reigns in full for the team, so of course we cannot say whether or not he can handle it. Ellsbury needs to go though, and I agree with that sentiment.

Troy Tulowitzki (BA/OB/SA/OPS/OPS+) (Reminder that an average player's OPS+ is 100). Home - .309/.380/.541/.921/112 Away - .275/.347/.467/.814 /88 He's not worth $20/season.

Why would the Rockies give up a face of the franchise for a 5+ERA pitcher, bringing him to Colorado, when he was never really a 'top' prospect, and for an infielder in A ball?

Spitball I know he was never an MVP I'm sorry for not bein super serious with my grammar here but we all know he had one good season where he was in contention for an MVP award. I'll make sure to always make sure everything I say is 100% black and white since everyone seems to nitpick. When did these forums turn onto grammar nazis instead of a good discussion website?

Or some people don't want to see as fans, a near automatic out in the line up just for defense. Most Americans don't enjoy pitching duels and low scoring games.

Maybe someone in Boston or with Extra Innings can confirm. But I was reading over the years he would get boo'd for not running out groundballs ect, like he had a little 'diva' to him, but this was all before his MVP season.

Guys, I didn't necessarily mean Aviles. I meant a good hitting SS for Christ's sake. Bogaerts is a much better projection for our team than Iglesias or any other hitter (IE: the Andrus rumors).

Fine I'll dumb it down for the sake of an analogy. Good hitting players with average gloves highly outrank Good defensive players with s***** sticks.

Agreed, and we were lucky to do some flipping around of some of those contracts in 2007. After 2004 we were also stagnant for a few years without true replacements for the future. I like Salty but he's no heir apparent for 'Tek. His OBP below .300 shouldn't be valued by our team with our core being walks and long balls. He only fits one of those categories, but with today's MLB catchers, we may be lucky. Two of those guys were also very small contracts with a very short time span (Millar and Mueller), but both were cogs, and like Ortiz, they were found on the MLB scrap heap. After 2007 we've still been playing catch up trying to figure out what works for us. We went to the defensive formula for a year that wasn't too bad, but we got impatient. But the idea also was that our defensively solid players were good hitters. I'm down for guys that produce and will come at a decent contract. The free agent market this year doesn't even really show diamonds in the rough, due to Oakland's and our success with that formula everyone's been trying to recreate it. And in this we have turned into a group of free swingers, which doesn't win ball games.

I said in my post that it was stupid to compare, but what I'm trying to say is going defensive at a position and giving up a stick just for a glove isn't a good idea. There are plenty of options out there that are better than Iglesias. Iglesias should be used as a trade chip rather than an actual clog. Xander Bogaerts is the future at SS.

Mike Napoli shouldn't be an option if we want to go back to the Series. Right now we need to STRAY away from the guys on the wrong side of 31.

If we are going to deal Ellsbury it HAS to be THIS offseason. Otherwise his value plummets even more. Ike Davis won't be available at all. Giving Mauro Gomez a shot, are you kidding me? He's going on 30 and has posted bench lines at best since 2005. Year Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS 2005 RAN AZL .385 4 13 5 5 2 0 1 4 10 3 2 0 0 .471 .769 1.240 2005 Minors .385 4 13 5 5 2 0 1 4 10 3 2 0 0 .471 .769 1.240 2006 RAN AZL .409 11 44 9 18 3 0 3 14 30 5 5 1 1 .480 .682 1.162 2006 BAK CAL .258 59 213 25 55 14 2 4 25 85 6 71 1 0 .279 .399 .678 2006 Minors .284 70 257 34 73 17 2 7 39 115 11 76 2 1 .316 .447 .764 2007 CLI MID .262 132 497 72 130 28 0 21 74 221 23 115 2 3 .316 .445 .761 2007 Minors .262 132 497 72 130 28 0 21 74 221 23 115 2 3 .316 .445 .761 2008 BAK CAL .244 80 316 30 77 13 0 8 41 114 14 93 0 0 .281 .361 .641 2008 Minors .244 80 316 30 77 13 0 8 41 114 14 93 0 0 .281 .361 .641 2009 BAK CAL .285 124 501 75 143 35 3 28 94 268 31 141 1 0 .333 .535 .868 2009 Minors .285 124 501 75 143 35 3 28 94 268 31 141 1 0 .333 .535 .868 2010 MIS SOU .281 133 495 67 139 42 2 16 80 233 46 122 1 2 .349 .471 .820 2010 Minors .281 133 495 67 139 42 2 16 80 233 46 122 1 2 .349 .471 .820 2011 GWN INT .304 135 506 76 154 34 2 24 90 264 38 131 6 2 .356 .522 .878 2011 Minors .304 135 506 76 154 34 2 24 90 264 38 131 6 2 .356 .522 .878 2012 PAW INT .310 100 387 65 120 34 1 24 74 228 35 88 1 0 .371 .589 .960 2012 Minors .310 100 387 65 120 34 1 24 74 228 35 88 1 0 .371 .589 .960 2012 Majors .275 37 102 14 28 5 2 2 17 43 8 26 0 0 .324 .422 .746

If we are going to deal Ellsbury it HAS to be THIS offseason. Otherwise his value plummets even more. Ike Davis won't be available at all. Giving Mauro Gomez a shot, are you kidding me? He's going on 30 and has posted bench lines at best since 2005. Year Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS 2005 RAN AZL .385 4 13 5 5 2 0 1 4 10 3 2 0 0 .471 .769 1.240 2005 Minors .385 4 13 5 5 2 0 1 4 10 3 2 0 0 .471 .769 1.240 2006 RAN AZL .409 11 44 9 18 3 0 3 14 30 5 5 1 1 .480 .682 1.162 2006 BAK CAL .258 59 213 25 55 14 2 4 25 85 6 71 1 0 .279 .399 .678 2006 Minors .284 70 257 34 73 17 2 7 39 115 11 76 2 1 .316 .447 .764 2007 CLI MID .262 132 497 72 130 28 0 21 74 221 23 115 2 3 .316 .445 .761 2007 Minors .262 132 497 72 130 28 0 21 74 221 23 115 2 3 .316 .445 .761 2008 BAK CAL .244 80 316 30 77 13 0 8 41 114 14 93 0 0 .281 .361 .641 2008 Minors .244 80 316 30 77 13 0 8 41 114 14 93 0 0 .281 .361 .641 2009 BAK CAL .285 124 501 75 143 35 3 28 94 268 31 141 1 0 .333 .535 .868 2009 Minors .285 124 501 75 143 35 3 28 94 268 31 141 1 0 .333 .535 .868 2010 MIS SOU .281 133 495 67 139 42 2 16 80 233 46 122 1 2 .349 .471 .820 2010 Minors .281 133 495 67 139 42 2 16 80 233 46 122 1 2 .349 .471 .820 2011 GWN INT .304 135 506 76 154 34 2 24 90 264 38 131 6 2 .356 .522 .878 2011 Minors .304 135 506 76 154 34 2 24 90 264 38 131 6 2 .356 .522 .878 2012 PAW INT .310 100 387 65 120 34 1 24 74 228 35 88 1 0 .371 .589 .960 2012 Minors .310 100 387 65 120 34 1 24 74 228 35 88 1 0 .371 .589 .960 2012 Majors .275 37 102 14 28 5 2 2 17 43 8 26 0 0 .324 .422 .746

I'm down for trading Ellsbury in a heartbeat. I'd prefer a 1B or SP in return if possible, but Ellsbury's health kills his value on the trade market. We would need a team desperate for an OF to go for it. Texas is a possibility, but I wouldn't want Andrus in return due to Bogaerts. I'd prefer Perez or something of his nature.

Derek Jeter was never, EVER a gold glove caliber short stop. Did that stop the Yankees from winning? I'm by no means saying that Mike Aviles is as good offensively as Jeter. But Iglesias hit .118 .200 .191 .391 this year for an OPS plus of 6. SIX! FREAKIN SIX. Many of you on these boards are willing to write off Ryan Lavarnway with a small sample size, but I don't think you can get much worse than Iglesias at the plate. In fact I'd take Rey Ordonez over Iglesias in a heart beat, both offensively and defensively. Year Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS 2010 LOW NYP .350 13 40 8 14 2 2 0 7 20 7 8 2 1 .458 .500 .958 2010 POR EAS .285 57 221 29 63 10 3 0 13 79 8 49 5 2 .315 .357 .672 2010 Minors .295 70 261 37 77 12 5 0 20 99 15 57 7 3 .339 .379 .719 2011 PAW INT .235 101 357 35 84 9 0 1 31 96 21 58 12 4 .285 .269 .554 2011 Minors .235 101 357 35 84 9 0 1 31 96 21 58 12 4 .285 .269 .554 2011 Majors .333 10 6 3 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 .333 .333 .667 2012 LOW NYP .375 2 8 1 3 1 0 0 0 4 1 1 1 0 .444 .500 .944 2012 PAW INT .266 88 353 46 94 9 1 1 23 108 27 46 12 3 .318 .306 .624 2012 Minors .269 90 361 47 97 10 1 1 23 112 28 47 13 3 .321 .310 .631 2012 Majors .118 25 68 5 8 2 0 1 2 13 4 16 1 0 .200 .191 .391 In anything higher than rookie ball he hasn't sniffed a .700 OPS and that's in the PCL as well. The kid can't hit. By the way on your Brendan Ryan argument, how did the Mariners do this year?

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards 2008 27 KCR AL 102 441 419 68 136 27 4 10 51 8 3 18 58 .325 .354 .480 .833 121 201 12 2 0 2 4 64/5 RoY-4 2009 28 KCR AL 36 127 120 10 22 3 1 1 8 1 0 4 26 .183 .208 .250 .458 22 30 3 0 2 1 0 6/5D 2010 29 KCR AL 110 448 424 63 129 16 3 8 32 14 5 20 49 .304 .335 .413 .748 104 175 13 1 0 3 0 46/5D 2011 30 TOT AL 91 309 286 31 73 17 3 7 39 14 4 13 44 .255 .289 .409 .698 89 117 8 2 4 4 0 546/D97 2011 30 KCR AL 53 202 185 14 41 11 3 5 31 10 2 9 27 .222 .261 .395 .656 78 73 5 2 3 3 0 54/6D 2011 30 BOS AL 38 107 101 17 32 6 0 2 8 4 2 4 17 .317 .340 .436 .775 107 44 3 0 1 1 0 5/6497 2012 31 BOS AL 136 546 512 57 128 28 0 13 60 14 6 23 77 .250 .282 .381 .663 76 195 6 2 3 6 0 *6/D45 Three times.

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards 2008 27 KCR AL 102 441 419 68 136 27 4 10 51 8 3 18 58 .325 .354 .480 .833 121 201 12 2 0 2 4 64/5 RoY-4 2009 28 KCR AL 36 127 120 10 22 3 1 1 8 1 0 4 26 .183 .208 .250 .458 22 30 3 0 2 1 0 6/5D 2010 29 KCR AL 110 448 424 63 129 16 3 8 32 14 5 20 49 .304 .335 .413 .748 104 175 13 1 0 3 0 46/5D 2011 30 TOT AL 91 309 286 31 73 17 3 7 39 14 4 13 44 .255 .289 .409 .698 89 117 8 2 4 4 0 546/D97 2011 30 KCR AL 53 202 185 14 41 11 3 5 31 10 2 9 27 .222 .261 .395 .656 78 73 5 2 3 3 0 54/6D 2011 30 BOS AL 38 107 101 17 32 6 0 2 8 4 2 4 17 .317 .340 .436 .775 107 44 3 0 1 1 0 5/6497 2012 31 BOS AL 136 546 512 57 128 28 0 13 60 14 6 23 77 .250 .282 .381 .663 76 195 6 2 3 6 0 *6/D45 Three times.

True, but at some point (hoping) there will be some sort of restraint. Pujols was a different animal, and the Tigers spent retardedly out of fright due to the Martinez injury.

We strongly overvalue Ellsbury is all I'm seeing here.

I don't see anyone paying big time contracts after age 32 much longer.

Perhaps, but do you want to pay for 70 SB's a year with a .290 AVG at $17 plus mil per year?