oldtimer

The last 4 games, our starting pitching has looked tired and ineffective. I would have hoped at least one of the guys would come through. Putting us behind by 5 (Devers had a part in that) in two innings is a lot for our offense to overcome.

Its a shame. E-rod is not getting people out. Its as if people know what he is going to throw. The game is already getting into hopeless conditions.

Could be just pride and determination. He has looked better and better for about a week. Good time to straighten things out.

Pom had a rough outing and his velocity was down. He might have been sick or perhaps the long season is catching up with both he and Sale. JF should be in an excellent position to make the call and I'll look to his choice as the smartest one.

I couched my cosideration of trading him as only if we could get someone who would improve the team overall. I generally have this feeling about many of our players, since the team is facing an uphill battle against the best teams in the league. Clearly we need a power bat and Nunez or his equivalent and we probably need another good hitter. Af far as guys that I wouldn't trade, I would include the following Betts Beni Vaz Devers Possibly trade under the right circumstances Bogaerts (very reluctant to let him go) JBJ Leon Guys back next year that won't be traded or are not tradeable Pedroia Rameriz FA that we want to return: Nunez if possible or his equivalent Major Hole(s): 1st base power hitter Any starting player we trade 2nd base caused by expected PT limitations for Pedroia Agree with others, our utility players can come from our existing roster of possibles. Coaches and Mgr: Need to try a different path at hitting coach I'm not sold on JF but a new one could be better or worse

He is the last guy you say you would trade, meaning you would trade Betts, Beni, Bogaerts and Vaz before him? I believe you are taking a silly position for not considering it.

And how do you view ir?

We will see when they face Houston pitching starting tonight.

Now we need at least 1 against Houston and the Yankees need to lose one of their last 4. Sounds doable. If we can split with Houston, then we don't have to watch the Yankee box score. It was enouraging to see us score 10 runs without either Betts or Nunez active. Did they have a team meeting that we didn't hear about? Looked like a different team tonight. Very encouraging to see Price throwing well and with a 97 mph fastball. Also very encouraging to see Bogey playing so hard and well. Good time for him to extend what seems to have been an offensive streak for him. Both Hanley and Moreland also connected. We need rested pitching to go along with this desperate effort made tonight.

If we keep 4 starters, then we need 7 total relievers: I would go with the following: Kimbrel Reed Kelly Price (Could start?) Maddox/Barnes Smith Scott I would makle the final decision on Maddox/Barnes after the final four regular season games. Right now, Abad, Workman and Hembree would not make the roster.

You have strong opinions about this. My own is that we know he is a great defensive player, but his hitting is streaky and I would trade him for the right return. He is 28 now and should be in his prime, but has shown no real improvement at the plate. The same very streaky hitter with the hot part of the streak few and far between.

So is Price. His velocity is great and he is throwing strikes. Didn't think he could come back this strongly. Probably can't go a full game but so much better than Porcello at this juncture.

Kimmi. There is not much we can do with the hitting this year. The Astros have also strengthened their pitching. hope for Nunez return to give us a somewhat better chance.

I went back through the last few series, and included Sept 15 and up, since he had a good day then. For all of those games, he has gone 6 for 39 for an average of .154. That is not getting it done for us. There was an article about his struggles today and the writer couldn't put his finger on any one issue, only that he is not hitting.

Almmost certainly we will take steps to get the best hitting coach available. Whatever, we need to try something different. At this point, I haven't identified a candidate, but what we have isn't working. I suppose who we get will depend a lot on whether JF survives this season. JF has to be given some credit for the position we are in given the lack of power on the team. His strength is handling of the pitching staff. One wonders if the pitching staff has a bad week, due to what looks to be fatigue, will he be criticized for that?

I see Cosart as more of a Nunez type. Play him at 2nd 70 to 80 games a year. DH him some and let him back up Bogey to keep him fresher. I am leaning toward something to be done aboutJBJ. He has been around long enough to see his pattern. Great defensive player but very long periods of deep slumps. i think the team can find better. The question to me is whether a new hitting coach could wake some of these guys up or they are beyond help.

Certainly I would consider him against lefties as Moreland's hitting isn't good, even against righties and Hanley isn't hitting either. Travis use against lefties makes sense.

What about Cosart instead of Nunez? Similar players but Cosart has a better defense. Both have about the same $ valuation. I do believe Devers will improve. He has the tools but needs to have his head more in the game. Bogey is who he is. Not a great defender but acceptable. I would think his hitting can be brought around. I am not stuck on Duda. Maybe DD will find a better overall player. Personally, I am coming to believe that one of our best fielders is just too much of a project in the batters box. Maybe it is time to see what kind of replacement we can get in Center Field.

Realistically, we are a flawed team by way of our death of good hitters and especially power hitters. We are further flawed by injuries to our key right handed hitters at the crucial point where we are struggling for the pennant. Our strength of starting pitching looks tired and our relief pitching isn't doing it either for the last two games at least. Add to that, our stretch run is against hot teams whille the Yankees are not facing quite the same challenge. Still we only need to win 2 game of the last 5 while the Yankees lose 1 of their next 5. If that can't happen are we really pennant caliber? I have seen many finishes, good and bad, and hope now for a couple of good pitching performances along with the return of our better hitters so that we can progress.

Yes, and we miss him greatly. We have JBJ hitting for a .173 avg for the month of Sept and not at all for the last week. Hanley is a shadow of the guy we need. If we get the pennant it will be an accomplishment with hitting this poor.

We are in a period where our pitching has to be nearly perfect. It was most of the road trip but now we are facing a hot team who killed two Yankee pitchers and have continued to do it to us.

Getting one power hitter in place of Moreland would help but not fix the underperforming offense. I think we also should consider trading some of our most erractic tradeable players and go after replacements who could give us a lift. If we can get Nunez or Cosart that would help and a healthy Pedroia would help but we may need more. Tonights game just points out we can't get into a slugfest or we lose.

I agree that the results of a loss tonight were likely and that Sale was put into a situation where he couldn't give up any runs at all and expect our weakened lineup would give him much support. Missing both Betts and Nunez left us with our other likely hitters of Bogey, Beni and Devers a heavy lift, especially against a good lefty who has been pitching well. Sad to see our team disintegrate after such a nice run, but when we were winning we were only getting 5 or 6 hits most days. The pitching carried us. The funning thing is that Young actually got a couple of hits tonight after not doing anything at all for a long time.

Morrison is another interesting guy. If he can repeat something close to this year he would be better than Moreland. Also, if we can't pick up Nunez, we should look at Cosart. They both aren't gooing to come cheaply. Their values are listed at around $14 million for next year. What they get offered may be something different, but it would be good to have a backup plan for Nunez.

You could be right, but I am a sucker for a top athletic type. It will take him time to come up through the levels. Hitting will be his biggest hurtle but I think if he can put on 10 to 15 pounds he could well be a top flight outfielder. The hitting is the thing. Whatever, don't trade this kid.