Maxbialystock

Actually, in this discussion, for the most part anyway, I have declared war on stats. My primary point is how Houck was in fact pitching to the top of the Phillies order for the third time right before he was pulled. If I understand the arguments against Houck, he should have been pulled in the bottom of the 5th when leadoff hitter Bryson Stott came to bat for his third time. Instead, Cora left him in to get the third out. No big deal, just one guy--and Houck got Stott to pop up. But when Houck went to the mound for the bottom of the sixth, he was defying everything everyone else has been saying on this thread. He was left in to pitch to the top (2d, 3d, 4th hitters) of the Phillies lineup for the the third time. And he got Trea Turner to K, gave up the single to Harper, and got Castellanos to ground out. In other words, in my opinion Tanner Houck had already put to rest the "Houck can't get anyone out on his third time up" thesis. In fact, I thought he was throwing good stuff. And guess who else thought that? Alex Cora, that's who. But then came Kyle Schwarber, lefty vs. lefty. As I've already pointed out, he was more likely to hit a dinger off a lefty than a righty. But let me add that your "big swing" doesn't apply so much to this season--and we are in this season and not all of the seasons Schwarber has played. This season Schwarber's OPS vs. lefty pitchers is .622 and vs. righties is .753, which is not as big a swing as you claim (I think based on Schwarber lifetime). In addition, and I can't emphasize this too much, Houck, was pitching great in the 6th. Bleier was not. And by that I don't mean that Bleier gave up the dinger, I mean that every reliever who comes into a game with a man on base is kind of an unknown quantity because he has yet to throw his first pitch. So, no, I don't really care that much about the stats when I can see how well Houck was pitching in the sixth.

One more time. In the actual game, as opposed to all earlier games in which Houck has pitched for the Sox-- 1. The Sox reliever, a lefty going against lefty Schwarber, did in fact give up a 2 run dinger. This is indisputable. It is not based on any statistical analyses about the Sox reliever, about Tanner Houck, or about Kyle Schwarber. 2. Before Houck was pulled in the 6th inning--and this is also indisputable because it happened--he had already pitched to the first four hitters in the Phillies lineup for the third time in the game. You and mvp78 and moonslav all seem to agree that no one should ever allow Houck to face any batting order three times. And you all continue to ignore the fact that it had just freaking happened. 3. On this third time thru the Phillies order, Houck got Bryson Stott, a lefty hitter, to pop up, Trea Turner, a righty hitter who is being paid $300M because he is a very good hitter against both righty and lefty pitchers, to strike out, gave up a single to lefty batter Bryce Harper, and got righty batter Nick Castellanos to ground out to 2b. 4. To that let me add something no one else has bothered to mention. Alex Cora agrees with me more than with any of you. Why? Because Alex Cora sent Tanner Houck to pitch the 6th knowing he would fact the 2d, 3d, and 4th hitters in the Phillies lineup for the third freaking time. 5. Let me repeat that. Without exception, you and your confreres would never have sent Tanner Houck out to pitch the sixth inning. We know that because of your collective insistence that Tanner Houck cannot be trusted to face a lineup for the third time. 6. Much has been made of the fact that the next batter, Kyle Schwarber, eats righty pitchers for lunch--especially worthless bums like Tanner Houck whom you and everyone else have assumed cannot get anyone out when he faces them for the 3d time in a game. Statistically--this season, anyway--Schwaber has hit 4 dingers in 46 at bats vs lefties and 4 dingers in 82 at bats vs righties. So Shwarber was more likely to hit a dinger against Bleier than against Houck. 7. So I continue to believe that leaving Tanner Houck in the game because of how well he was pitching while facing the Phillies lineup for the third time was the right move. It is beyond question he was throwing better stuff than Bleier.

You misspelled whining. I don't get to Sox games any more, so to me the issue is whether the game is worth watching on my computer. And this year the answer is a resounding yes, and that includes Kluber, who brings almost nothing to the mound--except tons of chutzpah. I'm serious. If Bello had Kluber's repertoire, he'd still be in the low minors.

My gripe with Old Red is I think he's intellectually dishonest. To justify pulling Houck, he cites how terrible (and he wasn't terrible) Houck was 2d time through the Phillies batting order. And then he completely disregards the third freaking time through the Phillies order as irrelevant because it doesn't fit his argument. In fact, the third time through the Phillies order started in the 5th inning when Houck got Stott to pop up to Devers. Then in the 6th he struck out Trea Turner, gave up a single to Bryce Harper, and got Castellanos to ground out to Valdez. To me it was patently obvious leaving Houck in was the right move because he was pitching well. But I also don't think leaving Houck in would have won the game. Phillies pitching was too good, and the Sox bullpen absolutely stunk today. In the past, I have not liked Houck as a starter, but this year I think he has shown a lot of toughness and a better repertoire. His ERA of 5.26 is nothing to write home about, but it's still 2d best among the starters. And Houck has pitched more innings than anyone else on the team.

Reportedly, a very good tanker.

Absolutely fantastic streak that couldn't have come at a better time. Plus the Sox won the series. I stand by my criticism of Cora, but do not think that decision cost the game, not by a longshot. The Phillies pitched a gem, pure and simple. I also think Cora is one of the reasons the Sox are having a good season so far. It will be interesting to see where Paxton ends up. If he replaces Kluber, fine, but that is very unlikely.

Then Houck never should have started the game if he can't get lefties out. Also, I'd like to go back to Old Red's comment about the eye test. To me Houck was throwing good stuff all game long. That giant 2 run rally in the 4th? All singles. Plus Devers mishandled what looked like a GIDP grounder.

Oh, stop it. The freaking eye test says he got Trea Turner to K and Castellanos to ground out the third time he faced them.

One more time. Houck started the 6th against the top of the Phillies order for the third time. Why did Cora do that? Answer: Houck was pitching well. He proceeded to K Turner, give up a single to Bryce, and get Castellanos on a ground out. Question: why do you insist pulling Houck was the right move when he already got 2 outs against the top of the Phillies order?

Reminds of that LA Dodgers manager--I think this is right--in the playoffs who said he was going to pull his starter no matter what after 6 innings. The starter pitched great, but got pulled, and the other team blasted the bullpen to win. I get the stats, the third time through the order, etc. It's become holy writ these days. Unfortunately, I also looked at the freaking box score for this freaking game. Against the top of the Phillies order, third time through, no good, worthless, can't get anyone out third time through Houck K'd Trea Turner, gave up a single to Bryce Harper, and got Castellanos to ground out. That's when Schwarber came to bat and Houck got pulled. Cora brought in a reliever, who to me looked awful, and the reliever got killed. So, yes, I stand by my assertion that Cora made a bad move. And I like Cora a lot.

Why wasn't that a GIDP?

Houck was as good as I've seen him this season. I would have left him in even though Schwarber got that clean single last time up. Bleier showed me nothing. In fact, my guess is that the only good thing he has is throwing lefty vs. lefty hitters.

Cora makes his move, and it turns out to be a rotten one. That could be the ball game.

That ain't no blind squirrel on the mound today. Like I said, he started 29 games for the Mets last season and did pretty well. And today it's obvious he is throwing a good assortment of pitches.

I don't like Bryce Harper and think he's vastly overpaid as a DH. But that sucker sure can hit. I'm not that impressed with his recovery (140 days?) from tommy john, but very impressed that he's been hitting well in the short time he's been back.

Walker has been in MLB for 10 years and is just 30. Last season he was pretty good for the Mets. Other seasons, not so much. Today he has not been lucky. Just good.

Walker is pitching a heckuva game.

Just for the record. Sox starters have not often gone 5 innings giving up just 2 runs this season.

Meh. His DWAR to date is 0.0. That said, I really like him in RF, much more than in LF where the Sox had him until last season.

Dugo struggling with the sun or whatever in RF today.

I have been about as anti-Houck as a starter as anyone, but this year I like him.

Agree.

That's two very hard hit balls by Casas to CF in this series. And this one made the score 2-1.

Excellent point!!!

Some credit to the Phillies pitcher. He looks to me as though he as pretty good stuff today. That splitter looks pretty effective, but so are his other breaking balls.