jung

Upton looks like the kind of guy that would just drive his Manager right up the wall.

We are so far not doing f*** all against this Angels team through a game and 3 innings. These guys are not exactly Cy Young either. That said, since the Yankee series we have really run into a stretch of starting pitchers that are not good matches for what the Sox hitters hit.

I can just imagine how hard Vaz worked to throw like that from Catcher. That is talent tailored by thousands of repetitions.

There is no excuse for an ump giving up on a high breaking ball. The only job he has is to watch that pitch all the way through to the catcher. Thats it. He does not have another job at that point. The hitter has all sorts of s*** he is trying to do. So if he gives up on it....understandable. But the ump???? Get the f*** outta' here.

1. David Fletcher ® 3B 2. Mike Trout ® CF 3. Shohei Ohtani (L) DH 4. Justin Upton ® LF 5. Albert Pujols ® 1B 6. Kole Calhoun (L) RF 7. Luis Rengifo (S) 2B 8. Max Stassi ® C 9. Wilfredo Tovar ® SS 1. Mookie Betts ® RF 2. Rafael Devers (L) 3B 3. Xander Bogaerts ® SS 4. J.D. Martinez ® DH 5. Andrew Benintendi (L) LF 6. Christian Vazquez ® C 7. Mitch Moreland (L) 1B 8. Brock Holt (L) 2B 9. Jackie Bradley Jr. (L) CF

I don't know if they can. They don't challenge hitters other than Nate and Nate is actually not ready as yet to challenge hitters successfully. You think this is only effecting our pitchers? MLB pitching generally sucks in this era. It is not a problem isolated to the Boston Red Sox. The NL has more starters that challenge hitters than the AL does. But so what. NL pitchers don't have the DH to worry about. One reason so few MLB pitchers challenge hitters is because the pitchers are just not good enough. We have legions of pitchers now wearing MLB unis that should not be....probably should never have gotten past AA ball. Another reason is that there are no safe havens in a batting order any longer. Any 160 lb soaking wet 2nd baseman can drive the ball over the Fenway bullpens now thanks to the Manfred Missile. So almost nobody challenges hitters either because they can't or won't, more likely both! As for our pitchers specifically, Porcello can no longer throw the high FB which he never had before adopting it and winning a Cy with it. Can't throw it any longer. Last start, abandoned the four seam FB completely to get through it. Sale, will have to throw with patience and intelligence for the remainder of his career in order to succeed IMO. That is something of a departure from his generally nuclear approach to being a starting pitcher. I do think the computer geeks in Sox baseball ops are calling the shots and it is them that have left us with a staff that challenges nobody. It is too pervasive throughout the staff and its not ex-catcher, ex bullpen coach Lavangie doing it though he is likely to take the hit for this mess. Its entirely possible that they named Lavangie pitching coach because the computer geeks in the FO did not want to deal with any contrary views from a pitching coach with actual pitching experience. Also entirely possible that Kimbrel is not here because for better or worse, Kimbrel challenges hitters. We appear not to have much interest in pitchers in key roles that do that. We took on jack of all trades Nate. But Nate's role on this staff is not well defined and is certainly not critical. I will be interested to see what happens to D-Hern. He clearly wants to be a strike thrower and challenge hitters. Will they trade him? Could be an interesting indication one way or the other.

Jacko is in his gloating irrational glory at present. Typical Yankmee fan. Give them a moment in the sunlight and they will f*** it up every time.

Sale had a great start last night against a team that he regularly dominates (6-0 going in to last night now 7-0). He did sort of pitch backwards last night starting with the Slider. and instead of spotting that Slider of his to RH hitters on their back foot, he was sneaking it back over the outside corner. Exhibited plenty of command of that pitch before even throwing Four seam FB's. Once he started throwing four seam FB's he started at 91-93 and gradually moved up in velo to hitters and in counts where he thought he needed it. That was an excellent performance. Now, he has been in decline late in seasons for the past couple of years. That created a whole bunch of horse s*** machinations going into this season. We can't wait for game 110 or whatever the f*** last night's game was for Sale to show up. His other highlight start this season was the complete game against the anemic Royals. From June 15th till last night he has gone 6, 5, 6, 5.2, 4.2, 6, 6, 5.1, 3.2 and his ERA for the year to date including last night is 4.41. If Sale is to stay in the 1 hole, he is constantly going to face opponent pitchers that are also the opponents 1-2 hole pitcher. Erod gets lots of run support and lots of wins because he generally faces an opponent 5 hole pitcher. The i hole demands more of a starting pitcher. What I liked about Sale's start last night is that he showed an incredible amount of patience and pitched intelligently albeit against a team he is supremely confident pitching against. THAT is how Chris Sale will have to pitch for the remainder of his career as a starter IMO. Either he does it or he doesn't. Regardless of what all else happens, injury, wear, what have you, if he does not do that, pitch with patience and intelligence every time out, something contrary to his generally nuclear approach to pitching, that 2024 deal becomes an albatross around our necks.

Great start by Sale tonight. About the only notable part of this game.

That is the way Rafi was swinging at the start of the year. He will always be late as long as he keeps that up.

JBJ has returned to his multiple swing problems mode. Where does the coach start. I would start with his cocked head because he can't follow the ball to the plate that way. Then I would try to get him to be more flexible in his lower body but not so flexible as he was in that horrid 2014 stretch when he was cork screwing himself into the ground. Then I would try to get his hands back inside the baseball. He is swinging around the baseball AGAIN.

I assume you are being facetious.

1. David Fletcher ® 3B 2. Mike Trout ® CF 3. Shohei Ohtani (L) DH 4. Justin Upton ® LF 5. Albert Pujols ® 1B 6. Kole Calhoun (L) RF 7. Luis Rengifo (S) 2B 8. Wilfredo Tovar ® SS 9. Max Stassi ® C 1. Mookie Betts ® RF 2. Rafael Devers (L) 3B 3. Xander Bogaerts ® SS 4. J.D. Martinez ® DH 5. Sam Travis ® 1B 6. Andrew Benintendi (L) LF 7. Michael Chavis ® 2B 8. Sandy Leon (S) C 9. Jackie Bradley Jr. (L) CF

I don't think Sale is toast either. But paying top dollar for transition years into a blind alley simply does not make much sense. Doing it twice (Price, Sale) and possibly thrice (Nate in an overpay) makes even less sense. Nate at $17 per was a mistake. Extending Sale when DD did it was a sinful mistake. Simply no reason to have done it when he did as Sale was already showing signs of excess wear.

NESN viewership is down. But most telling is the demo. The 55+ demo is 5:1 greater than the 25-54 demo. I actually don't know how much being out of the WC if that what happens will effect attendance at the Fenway itself. It will effect it some...but much?...Doubt it....too deep into the year and these are nights on the town now. It's a junket to Fenway crowd. That is not the crowd I went to Fenway with as a season ticket holder in the 70's. Do you see how many of those 5-12 year old kids at the park are decked out? That ain't no middle class crowd down there and its not a hard core baseball crowd either.

That will only happen when the business side of the House gives up all hope of selling tickets and generating ratings off of the Sox "run to the WC". My God I am actually beginning to doubt the voracity of what has often been considered one of the top two marketing operations in MLB. Who do they think is watching this crap? They have a carnival down at Fenway. Tons and tons of those people are not their to actually watch baseball nor do they know what they are looking at and the demo numbers are in. Who is watching on NESN?....Old f***ers like me....THATS WHO!

I don't even know what that means. But if its supposed to mean that other teams have better pitching than the Sox, some do and some don't. But the general level of pitching quality in MLB has fallen to the lowest level of garbage I have seen in 60 years of watching this game. It is trash....across the board with very Very VERY few exceptions.

But lots of foul balls are part of the same problem. This pitching staff challenges nobody. Its either nibble nibble nibble (ERod and Price) or get to chase (Sale and Cashewnuts). No telling what Porcello is trying to do at this point....survive would be my bet. Anyway, nibble and chase creates lots of foul balls and lots of just plain balls off the plate that don't even prompt a swing. Manfred both in MLB promoting power pitching and in the Manfred Missile is totally responsible for this mess. Manfred has come at this from both directions and has simply exacerbated the worst aspects of MLB's game. The pitching now sucks with no end in immediate sight. Pitchers are breaking down constantly with teams forced to backfill with garbage. Hitters treat every count like its 2-1 regardless of the actual count and flail away. Nice job Rob...really well done. Lets see how many pink hats you can keep oblivious to your nonsense. Nobody but the totally oblivious believes in these HR totals even now within the actual 2019 season....NOBODY!

Vaz's comment does not take into account the 700+ more pitches our pitchers have thrown than any other staff in MLB. It also does not take into account that virtually every other staff is grouped in a pretty tight band in the 17,000 pitch range with us way up over 18,000 pitches sticking out like a sore thumb. We don't throw strikes and we box ourselves into bad counts. You don't really have to know what is coming as a hitter. Far better for a hitter to have a sense for location than for pitch type. If it were not for the number of swing happy hitters in MLB swinging like the count is always 2-1, I have no idea how many more pitches we would be throwing than any other MLB staff,,,probably more like a 1,000+ more pitches.

I do like the idea of having junkers for starters and flame throwers for relief pitchers. If you have enough flame throwers and can keep them healthy or keep them coming, ya' got something. Problem is that too many hard throwers don't have a good technique nor good physical characteristics for throwing hard and hence both keep them healthy AND keep them coming becomes a problem.

Cue Music: "NY...NY....its a wonderful town. The bronx is up and the battery's down. Joe and Rob are right in Yankee-town" "CUT......CUT......What the f*** is wrong with you people. We can't make that the MLB anthem. Its not like are asses are not hung out in the breeze enough, ya' gotta' pull this crap!!!!" "WHOOPS.....Sorry Mr Manfred"

Good post. The defense has been nowhere near as crisp this year. Rafi as an individual defender has improved immensely. But that is indicative of his growth as a player. Outside of that the defense has more often been soft than it than it has been crisp. DP's not made. OFers not backing each other....lots of both this year. As for the offense, there is the chance that they simply got pulled out of their games when so many times they were looking up at a deficit so early in games. How many times were they looking up at deficits before they even came to the plate for the first time in a game this year. How many times were they looking up at a deficit after the 2nd inning. This team has a history of feasting on bullpens as the MO for its offense. That is a bit harder to employ when you are staring up at the opponent right from the middle of the 2nd inning. Its a bit harder to employ any sort of aggressive base running and hit and run when you are staring up right from very early in the game as well. Our starters in the main have not even been able to keep us even early in games. Much around the game and in games has conspired against the Sox this year....as it will conspire against any team attempting to repeat in this version of MLB. We don't have a repeat WS winner once this century yet and we won't have one this year either.

Agreed and given his agent and the sort of sentiment around this situation, anything less than what Mookie can get as a free agent is not likely to cut it as an offer from the Sox though I still think the Sox should make the effort. However, I simply do not think an offer they will or even should make will prevent Mookie from going the FA route. There are other MLB teams that will make Mookie not just the center of their marketing effort but the entirety of their marketing effort. The Sox are not going to see that kind of value in Mookie. The Sox have so much marketing bull crap going on all the time that Mookie would only ever be the center of that effort at best and maybe not even that! That alone probably adds anywhere from $3M to $5M per to any offer any other team will make for Mookie over a similar number of contract years.

Yea...if Cora had not used Barnes as a fireman earlier in a particular game he would look over the opponent's projected lineup for innings 7-9 and insert Barnes where he saw the most threatening hitters appearing for the opposing team. There was no mystery to what Cora was doing. Brasier got the 9th UNLESS the opponent's most threatening hitters were projected to come up in the 9th. I think Cora BECAME less inclined to that formula as Workman came on, Brasier disappeared and Hembree broke down. Cora grew to have more confidence in Workman and for the most part that confidence has been rewarded. The simplistic view of the closer role and the fireman is that a team really needs two closer quality arms. It needs one guy that actually closes and a 2nd guy that gets to deal with the putting out fires and innings other than the 9th that the manager determines poses a significant threat. Where you could tell Cora was not all that sold on Brasier in the first place is that if the most threatening hitters were projected to show up in the 9th he would push Barnes to the 9th inning. It is sort of odd to have a closer that under certain conditions you don't allow to close. That is not really on Cora though. DD left him with that mess.

Yup....and I still don't think closer by committee makes a hill of beans of sense. I will however repeat that bullpens and relief pitchers generally have always been a DD blind spot. For all of DD's "experience" it is no less a blind spot now than it has always been for him, right in the face of bullpens being transitioning to being a much more significant component of an MLB team than they ever were in the past.