jung

Honestly I am not sure anybody on the outside looking in knows for sure if they are over or not at this point. They got to right on top of the cap and then basically had done nothing to really drive it over such that you could say they were definitely over. If they signed either Karoda or Oswalt there would be no doubt. That much is sure. Myself I thought they were about $2M under. In fact they know where they are and they would likely view additional signings to get pitching exactly as it has been described. What I mean is that the fact that they have balked on Karoda and look like they are balking on Oswalt may be the surest signs that they are not in fact over. However again they got very close and then did nothing to definitively push them over. I don't think any of us really know what side of the line they are on at this point. I do wish the knucklehead media would just ask the question. They ask all sorts of stupid meaningless questions. It would be nice to know the answer to that one.

Kinda' wish the Sox had worked aggressively to do a Youk deal already. Of there was a way to squeeze some cap space out of that deal we would know it already and could be using that money right now. It is almost like they don't see the corner they have been boxed into by the Ortiz deal. Christ they are beginning to remind me of the old Soviet economic strategies. Gotta take one step backwards hoping to take two steps forward.

Good thinkin' about Youk and cap space. I had thought about that a few weeks ago when I first posted about it but had lost track of that aspect since then. Depends on who comes in what kind of deal. Ya' wanna' get value for Youk. We might have to get lucky to trade Youk and not end up taking back as much salary as we give. Very good idea though and I would certainly be trying to clear myself some space if I were the Sox.

Not sure what to think at this point at least as regards the Sox actually making a FA acquisition. Ya gotta' figure that the Sox knew Kurota was gone before we did because they had to at least have been in the discussion. At $10-$11 they would have been bounced out earlier than today I think. Oswalt had first been candid about only wanting 1 year. If the reports that he was willing to deal at $8M are true that has been out there long enough now as well. I have to think at this point that the Sox don't like $8M. Think there is every chance at this point that they are going with what they have. That will disappoint some and be a relief for others. It is what it is. To be honest based on what just happened i question the validity of the reports of Oswalt's willingness to deal at $8M. He may not go for much more than that but I now doubt he is going for less. If the Sox were on with him, we would have likely seen a Sox announcement on Oswalt right on top of the Yankee announcements. Once you get to Saunders, you are pretty much down there where if the Sox have not crossed the LT threshold yet they would not likely cross it to take Saunders. So in reality I think it is Oswalt or nothing and since we have not had an announcement today, it is likely going to be nothing. Just my opinion of course.

Remember seeing those Elk and I do think you are probably right. Think there are multiple possibilities there and frankly I have not spent time trying to figure out which one i think works best both ways. Any ideas?

Well then you have to believe that Kurota was going to get more like $13 or more and that is to much to believe. I choose not to believe the report as $10-11 is exactly were we thought he would be all along, not just in the last 5 minutes. Are you trying to make the case that the price of SP coming down is not a fantasy in this market. Good luck Alice....the line in front of the looking glass is right over there.

Sure jacksonmarch, a major lift from CC and pray for rain. I hardly think it is a great rotation at this point. However I am not sure the Yanks will have to worry that much about the Sox this year. The difference is that getting past the Sox no longer guarantees the Yanks of very much.

The biggest thing that BC did this off season was a gigantic error. I know it is beating a dead horse but offering Ortiz arbitration boxed the Sox into a nasty corner. It was like hearing all the tumblers of a lock fall into place all at once. $15M gone that could have gone for pitching. No relief for Youk at 3rd almost making it an imperative to trade him. No rest for AGons at 1st. Larvarnway effectively blocked from any DH time at all. I have been calling for the Sox to find the way to cobble together a deal to send Youk off since then. However seeing how they are handling Tek makes me think there is not a snowballs chance in hell of the Sox even thinking along those lines. If some poor FO schmuck even mentioned it they would probably look at him like he had four heads and the poor guy would probably go off to polish up his resume.

Well, It would be hard to call either the Yankee's or Red Sox SP stabile or set or strong points today. So the Yankees got Kuroda...big deal. However in spite of my comments about the chances of the Sox landing him, in my view the Sox needed him more than the Yankees did. So to some extent this is less about the Yankees getting him and more about the Sox losing him. Prices are NOT coming down for SP. No s*** Sherlock. So where does that leave the Sox rotation? Right where it is I guess unless they trade for some additional pitching. As unlikely as that seems to some of you, that is more likely than the cost for SP coming down in this market.

Well I sort of view them as equally irritating. i never expected the Sox to end up with this highly discussed and sought after #4 starter because I did not think the prices were coming down and I did not think the Sox were going to meet the market. So for me, this "reality" sank in weeks and weeks ago. It will likely be harder for other folks to take and I completely understand that. This Tek thing is just maddening in a completely different way. They don't have the time to waste dicking around with Tek. Just stop. Who the crap do they think they are? As far as I am concerned they are still the shambles of a team that fell apart last year until they prove otherwise. So go ahead Red Sox and dick around with Tek.

To some extent offering Tek a spring training invite is the same mistake all be it at a much lower level that offering Ortiz arbitration was. Oh lets offer Ortiz arbitration. He won't take it and we will pick up draft picks when another team picks him up. Sure you will. Oh lets offer Tek a spring training invite with no guarantees...he won't show up. Sure he won't. STUPID!

Honestly I said for the longest time now that I thought this idea of SP falling in price was a complete fantasy and/or fabrication as it flies in the face of contemporary reality. So I am just as ready to believe that the initial reports of the prices dropping for Kuroda and Oswalt were a complete hoax as Kurota ended up right were folks thought he would. So while being a little on the fence I am really still thinking the Sox will end up with none of these guys because the prices are to rich for their blood.

Now we don't know if Kuroda's agent actually did try to peddle him at $8M with the Sox getting outbid from there or if Kuroda never did lower his price after all. Wanted to at least use this to find out something about the Sox direction for the remainder of this post season and that is just to high a number for that purpose. The Sox were never going to give Kuroda $10-11M.

I know it looks the same as the way the Yanks handled Williams but Williams had been on a different plateau than Tek. At the point when he was done, there was nothing left in baseball for him to do and yes I agree that it was a graceful way to part as the Yanks probably did know that Bernie would decline the invitation. Tek will show up to ST because he will have nowhere else to go and he will insist on trying to find a way to snake his way onto this team. That is the difference. A good deal of crap happened last year and I got tired of seeing him prance around with that stupid C doing nothing. Frankly I just do not want to see Tek around this team. Get him outta' here.

No....getting Tek as his personal catcher is not even good for Beckett although he might think it is. It is time for Josh to grow up a bit. He cannot carry Tek around in a golf coffin the rest of his career. If he keeps this up pretty soon he will be carrying him around in a real coffin before long.

Just cut Tek loose. What harm does it do to ask him? What good does it do to ask him? He is not really capable of competing for a spot even with Shoppach. So, all he can do is cause trouble and be a distraction. Stop just stop Red Sox. Plus this is so much like the Sox, unable to say goodbye to anybody unless the guy literally has a heart attack and dies.

The ego part of this ownership for JH is more about how much he will make turning this business than it is about owning the Red Sox. JH is going to make a huge amount of money when he turns this team and that is likely what occupies the frontal lobe right now. I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell of him owning this team for another ten years. He will have to much in paper profits that he can only take by selling long before ten years is up. I do agree that what happens with LL could accelerate the pace of a sales process even further.

I would not be waiting for the Yanks or somebody to take one of the two pitchers we have been talking about so that the Sox could take the other. Once one goes the other will not have much incentive to lower his price any longer and the burden will fall more on the team that still does not have a pitcher to up their offer and make sure to get the one pitcher remaining.

What is interesting to me about the recent announcements of cost reductions for both Kuroda and Oswalt is that those announcements would not have come from the teams involved. There is no benefit to the teams in announcing these cost reductions even covertly. The benefit is to the players and their agents in turning up the wick on the teams to cover the difference between what they have offered to date and $8M. If this still drags on for awhile it probably says that the offers on the table are quite a bit lower than $8M as hard as that might be to imagine. I don't believe it is possible that those two guys do not have some offer or offers in front of them right now. So we shall see. Having made the announcements I don't think the players will capitulate quickly for a number lower than $7.5M or $7M although I guess I could see the players capitulating at some point. This is a really interesting situation to watch develop.

I am not sure anybody other than Tek is even hoping any longer.

What do we think the Sox are actually doing with Padilla.....using discussions with him to earn some insurance against missing out on either Kuroda or Oswalt? I can't see the Sox taking Padilla unless they miss one of those two guys. Maybe stash Padilla in the minors?

Well they got an interpreter for dice....maybe a dugout psych for Padilla. Geez, this might really be the end for beer in the clubhouse!

AAAAAAAbsolutely!

Understood User and again accurate. Now it remains to be seen if the Sox will have the patience that they have not shown recently and keep those guys. I agree there is more than an even chance that they will hang onto the guys you mention. The other way has not worked out so great. Also I am hoping for and actually see so far less of a propensity to sort of ordain that a certain player or players will be Red Sox come hell or high water. May be to early to tell but I think there is more than an even bet that we will see a more even handed view in this regard and those guys that you mentioned make it up to the show.

I am skeptical here, and I appreciate your use of the word supposedly, mainly because the whole conditioning thing appeared to me to be a knee jerk reaction to the result of the 2011 season. I think there is a fair amount of red herring in that argument. Maybe it will be markedly better in 2012 due to changes in the staffing. However in the MLB the strength and conditioning guys are glorified towel holders when you compare them to their counterparts in the NFL just as an example. The amount of actual control that an MLB team can exert on a player is a paper tiger compared again to the NFL equivalent. The player himself, more than any of the four major NA pro team sports is more responsible for his own conditioning. One could even at least argue that the number of legitimate training regimens that have been developed strictly for baseball are a paltry few compared again to a sport like football. Ya' wanna' keep the muscles required to swing the bat effectively, supple and sound, hopefully avoiding injury? Pick up a bat and swing the hell out of the thing. Ya' wanna' strengthen your throwing arm? Pick up the ball and throw hell out of it.