Six4Three

Went to the game tonight. More cheers than boos for Crawford but the boos were loud enough to prove that the haters aren't that bright. CC wasn't offered a contract after the 2010 season ended, he was offered a handshake and a "best of luck". If he signed for a less expensive contract they would have boo him for that too. Lame.

I think the .591 winning percentage is pretty accurate. 96 wins should win the division by 5 or 6 games. There's more room for the Yankees to struggle the rest of the way than improve. Too many old body parts on that team will be strained/torn/bruised/broken to keep them running on all cylinders. Whatever trades they pick up won't make them better than the Sox. As far as the 0-6 start goes, remember the Yankees and Rays have both had 6+ game losing streaks this season as well. It happens.

Feel free to scan me copies of all the polls you guys have taken. I don't need proof to know that cocky guys are disliked. Nor do I need further evidence that water is wet. Is this the part where linear weights tell me that Pedroia is humble?

Again, if you set the bar that low they'll have to add ten more wings to the Hall. Sorry but ".273/.351/.355/.706 career, 1588 H, 38 HR, 239 2B" will never get another player inducted again. It took him 38 years to be inducted and now his numbers are the bare minimum to waltz right in, end of argument? You don't think his SEVEN World Series Rings, 40 years of broadcasting Yankees games, and boat-load of friends on the veterans committee helped put him over the top? Yes the argument is over, but you're the one that lost. I know others here agree but are probably in no big hurry to back me up. That's coo'. I haven't been here long but I know I've already read a couple times "imagine how much we'd hate Pedroia if he wore another uniform". You'll find thousands more negative opinions about him on other teams' message boards. Yes he'd be picked for his skills but so would Ricky Henderson and LeBron James. Doesn't mean they'd be liked around the league. Tough room eh? Now we need signed affidavits from every guy in every clubhouse before talking about a player's personality?

Thanks but I want to know less about it, not more.

Sorry, not feelin' it.

(crickets)

Sorry, don't get the reference. edit: What does Wade Boggs have to do with this?

Which decade? There are several players with Rizzuto+ numbers that are not in the Hall. That's too low of a standard. As far as popularity goes, and I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for this, Pedroia isn't as liked across the league as you think. Everyone agrees he's a gamer but the bravado is quite a turn-off outside of the Red Sox fan-base. In fact, he's a reality show and a teary-eyed post-game interview away from being Terrell Owens. In a tougher clubhouse he'd be taped up and stuffed inside his locker every time he said the words "laser show".

??

A couple? He needs a dozen more.

In no universe, Sabermetrica or otherwise, is Pedroia a better baserunner than Crawford. He is scoring as much as Crawford by the 3/4/5 guys driving him in, not by better athleticism or instincts. No collection of stats will prove to me otherwise. If Pedroia was the better baserunner why on earth would I not want him at the top of the order?

Steinbrenner. Hank Steinbrenner, pleased to meet ya. Just kidding, I help manage a private hedge fund that invests in, among many other things, sports related businesses.

I picked Bonds and Clemens because they're so off the charts numbers-wise. Both would have made the Hall with 75% of their stats. I hate to say it but the same goes, or will go, for A-Rod. Voters will not however say the same about the other 500-600 homer guys that have been linked to PED's. OPS? Oh my, I feel a bit faint, your fancy computer words are making me dizzy. We agree on Ortiz though. Sweet.

I appreciate that but I happen to make a pretty good living off of my baseball IQ. Not trollin', I thought this thread was about Crawford's spot in the lineup. Even with MVP Candidate/Youklis/Ortiz hitting behind him you don't think Pedroia is under any obligation to score more than a guy who has Cameron/Drew/Scutaro/Catchers hitting behind him? He should be blowing CC"s run total out of the water. Conversely, CC would be out-scoring Pedroia significantly if he was near the top of the order. How? All through the magic of common f'n sense. Please look at all of ORS' posts, he has proven this for us all several times. ORS, I honestly don't know what you think you've almost tricked me into admitting. I really don't.

That would give him just three full seasons played. The only player I can think of who received that big of a contract with so little experience was Pujols. 8years/$111mil. That averages under $14mil/year. Ellsbury of course is no Pujols and won't come anywhere near that salary. More like 7 years/$75mil. That is, if the Red Sox believe he'll stay healthy.

I don't think Ortiz gets in with 500 DH'd homers and a PED concern. His first 6 seasons yielded just 58 home runs which will hurt him on a couple levels. Plus I think he'd have to play through the 2015 season to hit 500 homers anyway.

The Sox should lock him up. I think it's important to keep homegrown players around as long as possible. It's good for the fans and it's not like he's too old or performing poorly. Not every hired gun fits in so trying to improve upon Ells would be a huge gamble. Even with Boras though, he won't be getting anywhere near $15-20mil per year.

Not lately? Nor will they ever keep up with A-Gon/Youk/Ortiz. That is why if Pedroia and CC end up with a similar amount of runs this year then that will be an epic FAIL for Pedroia. Every time you type you help make my point. Sorry, my observation about Pedroia's late start belong in the "Who's on pace for the Hall Of Fame" thread. As in, this is the reason Pedroia is not on pace to make the Hall Of Fame.

Wow, Pedroia has .007 better career slugging percentage in 600 less games? Talk to me when he has performed at this level for more than 5 full years please. Oh, I just noticed that Pedroia is just two years younger than Crawford yet he has just 50% of his cumulative stats. That's a shame. If Pedroia is the better hitter, baserunner, slugger, and scorer then that means you believe the bottom of the order has been outperforming A-Gon/Youk/Ortiz which is padding Crawford's stats. Alrighty then, that's my cue. Nice talking to you.

Clemens, Bonds, Maddux, Glavine, Griffey, Pedro, Hoffman, Piazza, I-Rod, F.Thomas, Biggio, Randy Johnson all get in pretty easily. Probably Schilling too. For active players Rivera, I-Rod, Pujols, Thome, Vlad, Jeter, Chipper, Vizquel, Ichiro, are all pretty much locks. Damon too if he can squeak out 300+ more hits. Possibly Posada but he'll need to end his career with more dignity than he's shown this season. A third ring could seal it for Varitek with all of his caught no-hitters. Ichiro gets in first try if even if he never played in Japan, quits the MLB tomorrow, and gets arrested for stealing Ty Cobb's bat from actual Hall Of Fame. Manny, Sheffield, Sosa, Ortiz, and McGuire will all remain out of the HOF. Pedroia are Ellsbury are WAY too young to venture a guess. Youkilis has no shot whatsoever. A-Gon isn't even at the halfway point. Nomar seemed like a lock but as someone stated earlier, that's why it's the last five years that count the most. Also, there might not even be a DH in ten years which would end a few careers early.

Thanks. The pleasure was all mine.

Exactly! Pedroia should have more runs. CC is trailing Pedroia in SB's right now but will obviously out-steal him by seasons' end. Yet even with more stolen bases and 30+ more walks Pedroia, as of yesterday, wasn't out-scoring CC. I don't need to reconcile anything, you need to tell me how the pathetic Crawford, even with the worst April of his career, could possibly keep up with the almighty Pedroia in runs? Shouldn't Pedroia's magnificent OBP, blazing speed, and god-like protection result in MANY more runs than what CC is scoring? Yes. The answer is yes. And speaking of straw men....my argument is NOT "that Crawford will move into scoring position more often than Pedroia via his speed". My argument is that Crawford will score more often than Pedroia via his speed given the same protection. (By month's end he'll probably be doing it without the same protection.) It is my personal opinion that Don Zimmer would have 32 runs this season with A-Gon/Youk/Ortiz batting behind him and that CC would have even more still if he wasn't hitting so far back. While the extra bases on balls in play stat is a refreshing change from the usual OBP rhetoric, it naturally gets trumped by my "caveman" stats of slugging and total bases. I happen to appreciate CC's combination of overall speed, slugging, and ability to score. Those skills will put him in both the MLB Hall of Fame and your Sabermetrics Hall of Shame. This is a perfect example of why you need to watch the actual games to judge a player instead of just looking at page 2 of his expanded stats. I'll concede that barring injuries to others, there's no chance of CC moving up in the order. That has more to do with Tito catering to egos than CC's not deserving it in my opinion. Being the newest lefty certainly doesn't help. It's just a shame to see him sacrifice so many offensive numbers for these younger guys while also being under-utilized in the smallest left field in the majors. Next he'll be asked not to steal because it's distracting to Saltalamacchia at the plate.