Dojji

Alright, alright, *I* didn't think they'd trade MCab. Not when the rumors first appeared. I thought it was an insane business model.

Payton.. YUCK. I'd rather have a Van Every-Baldelli platoon.

No, probably not, but hey, you never know. This IS the Marlins. We didn't think they'd trade MCab when they did either.

Agreed. I'm stepping a bit outside my usual role as well. Hanley Ramirez is hugely talented and is a walking exception to the rules. He does it all -- major power hitter and speed burner. If you can get a guy like that your lineup is instantly so much better that you've got to go for it. Buchholz, Lowrie, Bard, Expo, to open the bidding. I'd expect the Fish GM to at least make a counteroffer to a proposal like that.

Not surprised they tried. The Fish are notoriously stingy and they've been known to trade any established talent for youth at the first opportunity. Nor am I surprised that Theo kicked the tired on this. While I have a lot of respect for, and faith in, Jed Lowrie, Hanley represents an instant upgrade on the level of production we've had in SS over the last few years, to a level that we'd have to be very lucky to get from Lowrie. This doesn't surprise me nearly as much as the last Marlins trade rumor which had them in the Manny hunt. Likely just like the last time, cash was likely a sticking point again.

That's quite alright, JE, you didn't miss much.

The fun part is I got about the same level and variety of responses in this thread as I got with every other attempt at communication I've made here. Right down to the duncetard "fail" meme. Probably should have known better than to make this thread. It really doesn't accomplish anything for me to harangue people about a sports team. But it stuns me just how quickly Sox fans are conceding the high ground back to the Yankees just because Einsteinbrenner opens the wallet. What happened to the Red Sox never saying die? Half of you saw Teixeira in pinstripes and said "kill me now!" That amazes me. We were a hundred runs better than the Yankees last year and yet for all the talk it sounds like the Yankees now have this insurmountable lead in the talent race just because they replaced 3 of their players with younger models. I don't get it. It doesn't make logical sense.

BSN: That's my position most of the time as well but when I express it that way all the little Jackxonianmarch clones around here start talking in sober terms about how good everyone else is and how we're probably going to miss the playoffs altogether. Am I overreacting? Sure. But there's a time and a place for that and the Chicken Littles need to realize that Teixeora or no Teixeria the sky isn't teetering any worse than usual this morning so we can get back to actual Red Sox baseball.

No, but having the utmost lack of confidence can. THe last 3 weeks all I've been hearing from you guys is Teixeira, Teixeira, and when Teixeira didn't come half of you sound like you want to take your toys and go home. It's about time for you guys to get a wake up call and get back to recognizing the very good team we already have and not conceding anything to anyone before the season even starts.

Pardon me. I thought I was on a Red Sox forum. Could someone give me a link to Talksox? I think I wound up on Talkrays by mistake. We have distinct advantages over the Rays offensively on both sides of the ball. The Rays will be in the hunt but there's no reason to believe that we can't come out on top of them. I'm sorry this is a difficult concept for you but it's nonetheless true

And the fact that I could make up a list of 4 devestating hitters and leave a perennial 20 HR threat out is somehow a knock on the Sox? Nice.

Wht the heck am I the only one in this thread who's got the marbles to say his team is going to win anything? All I'm getting from you flock of chickens is worry over what everyone else has got. As if we can't match it. Never thought I'd run into fans of a near-dynastic team that were this terrified of their own shadows. How about a little actual confidence in what this team has, is, and can do? I don't think that's too much to ask of the fanbase of a team that has failed to win 90 games once in the last 6 years.

Indeed. Almost as scary as a healthy Ortiz, Youkilis, Bay and Drew. Almost.

What made them lucky was the fact that their run differential placed them outside the pennant race. They got lucky with key hits at key times and outperformance by washouts like Howell and Percival that are unlikely to recur. I see no particular reason to believe that the Rays roster won't win more games than it loses but to presume them to be better than us just because of a flukish finish in the standings is insane. For every Ray that was out, hurt or underperforming there's a corresponding Sox player so I don't see why this is such a compelling argument.

Implying I don't. Bravo. Seriously, I am looking at exactly the same facts you are and drawing a much more optimistic conclusion. Clearly, one of us is in error but I don't think the optimistic position needs to be implicitly dismissed as unrealistic by virtue of the pessimists and cynics waving the banner of so-called realism around.

You sound like ESPN. I can listen to a columnist say thise things, I don't see why they have to come from a fan. What's wrong with being a little brave about it?

I was just making a point. Even while trying to sound "positive" you make it sound like we're the friggin' Blue Jays. Objectivism not = pessimism. Nor does objectivism mean the same thing as rhetorically hedging your bets, which is a lot of what I'm criticizing here. Saying that this team might fall off the cliff is not objective, it's simply stating the obvious. A completely objective look at this ballclub reveals that we were the best team in the league by pythagorean W-L despite significant underperformances from key players like Beckett, Lowell, Ortiz and Ellsbury. There is nothing wrong with saying that this team has a very good chance to go all the way and being completely OBJECTIVE with the analysis. I mean, c'mon. we're fans, right? Aren't we, if anything, supposed to be insanely HIGH on our sports teams? What the hell are you afraid of?

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. We probably have FEWER defensive holes and MORE positions filled with top notch bats than we did in 2003-04. Notably, we've turned Boston's traditionally weakest offensive and defensive position from a liability into an MVP. If our catcher situation turns out, which is a question you can only really ask during the season, I see no reason why our lineup isn't the best in the big leagues. And did I mention, the rotation and bullpen is deeper, stronger, and more objectively talented than at any time in recent Sox memory? We lose a little off the top from Clemens or Pedro but we have better pitchers supporting the #1 than we have in a long time. I mean heck, in the championship 2007 season Julian Tavarez made 23 starts.

What is it with a certain brand of Red Sox fan who all they can see is the negative? Is it that they think that "mouthbreathing" fans exaggerate how good the team is so an "educated" fan must be the opposite? More to the point, why is every little shake to the tree enough to get so many "die-hard" fans to fall out and start declaring that the era of the Red Sox is over every time the Yankees steal a march on them? You'd think everyone would be used to the whole "Yankees win the preseason, Sox win the postseason" mantra by now and just be able to let it roll off. Certainly fans as primed to be patient as we Sox fans should be able to steer a good course through rough seas. Right now the seas aren't even particularly choppy. Seriously. This team is good. We've got a strong lineup, a deep pitching staff, a nice bullpen and good depth in the farm. We're primed to contend now and in the future. Why is fan faith so easily rattled just because the Yankees replaced a power-hitting 1B with 30-35 HR ability with... a power-hitting 1B with 30-35 HR ability? What's more, the Yankees are the ones who have to make up ground against us this offseason. Their gaining talent doesn't put them over the top so much as it does pull them even. I'm game for a fair fight with New York if you are. We still have the depth to win a war of attrition any day. So come out from under the table, step back from the ledge, wipe your eyes and get back on the wagon folks. We're going all the way this year.

If they trade Michael Bowden for a middle-teir catcher when they don't have to I just might hurl. Bowden's way more talented than that if he can get a chance to prove himself here and he's probably the most polished of our Big 3 based on what I've seen of him. He certainly covered himself with more glory than Buchholz did in their time here this year and the guy's gonna be 22 years old next year with an effective big league start under his belt. No matter what you think of Montero, what he isn't is a franchise talent. A guy like Bowden should be on the table for franchise talent only. A good year from Johjima is as solid as a good year from Montero, and you can have Bowden pitch to him. At least we know Johjima can play in the American League and that he has hit there in the past. Oh, since it's germaine to the thread -- I was intrigued by the acquisition of Bard because it did signal the demise of the campaign to make Varitek our own again. I predicted in the Moneyball thread that if catcher became officially an open position we'd see Theo starting to kick the tires on a lot of middle tier catching talent and letting a lot of different guys try out and lo, it has begun. I expect to see at least one more catcher acquired on a NRI deal which doesn't preclude picking up a bigger name in trade. Michael Barrett is a possibility there. That gives us 4 catchers competing for 2 roster spots and gives us some organizational leverage to acquire a better catcher in trade.

What a horrible deal for the Sox.