Dojji

There are plenty of acceptable options at 3B without getting exotic. We don't need an all star and don't really have the assets to obtain one. What we need is adequacy at the third base position. An all star would be great but all we need 3B to be is something other than a sucking chest wound. Going back to an offseason idea of Moonslav's, picking up Todd Frazier from a White Sox club going nowhere would be a solid idea, I doubt he'd be too expensive considering he's on the last year of his deal on a losing team and the White Sox are considering a transition to Yoan Moncada at his position, and we've proven we can make fair deals with the White Sox. That looks like a deal that ought to be doable for a reasonable price in assets. Heck maybe the White Sox think they can save Blake Swihart. Adrian Beltre is also a solid choice if the Rangers will spare him, he's made a strong return to their lineup after his injury and I think it's fair to say he's likely healthy, and he's been highly productive in Boston before. The Rangers are 1 game over .500 and not too far off wild card pace and they may consider themselves in contention, so that may not be an option at the deadline, but if they take a dive in the standings between now and 7/31 that becomes an option. Basically there's a couple things we can potentially do to increase our left side of the infield offense without screwing over an elite SS. If they fail then maybe it's time to go exocit, but the best roster moves are the ones that are least disruptive to the team, adding the most while subtracting the least, and if a veteran 3B is available, getting a SS instead fails that test.

All of Betts, Benintendi, Pedroia, Shaw and ERod were developed on more or less reasonable timeframes and had full development in the minors before they were leaned on for big league production. Benintendi was on the light side of the development cycle and there seem to have been some consequences, fortunately he's a complete enough player that he handled the transition well despite organizational incompetence forcing him into the lineup slightly prematurely More to the point, they had other plans in hand to deal with the production at those positions if the prospects proved they needed a little more time in the oven. Benintendi and Shaw were covered by Holt, Pedroia was covered by Mark Loretta and Alex Cora, E-Rod was brought in properly as a bottom of the rotation guy. Mookie Betts actually started out as a replacement second basemen because Victorino, Ellsbury and Gomes were getting it done in the outfield at the time. They nearly screwed up JBJ due to a lack of organizational foresight and got rewarded with 2 extremely unproductive years that will make his prime more expensive, he's a prime example of rushing a guy and getting lucky, and why you don't do that even when it works.

I would ten thousand times rather go pick up a veteran than put Devers development track at risk. Haven't we ruined enough prospects over the years by screwing with them based on what we needed rather than what they were ready to provide? Do we really want to risk throwing away another piece of the 5 year plan just because DD doesn't know what he's doing at third base? Does anyone remember Blake Swihart? Gee I wonder what happened to the poor guy. Oh that's right, WE DID. He stepped in to fill a role he wasn't remotely ready fore because WE DIDN'T PLAN WELL, and look what it got him. We keep throwing bodies into the breach before they're ready because of failures of planning and a refusal to accept replacement players. We did the same thing to Will Middlebrooks, we were doing the same thing to Moncada, now you guys want to do it to Devers because clearly, history shows it works so well. At what point do we wake up and realize that fooling with a prospect's developmental schedule solely based on big league needs and with no regard for the readiness of the prospect IS THE PROBLEM? Take the time, be patient, and LET YOUR PROSPECTS DEVELOP IN THE MINORS. When you move them up move them up because they're ready, not because you screwed up your organizational plan so hard that you need to risk expensive high reward assets just to cover your own backside. It's not that hard. Or it isn't if your organizational planning is up to scratch. we're not planning on being uncompetitive in the years when Devers is supposed to be the star of the middle of our order. We will desperately need that big bat later on when we're trying to win titles in 2020 and later. There is no need to take the risks involved in getting happy feet with the guy and crowding him into a big league lineup before he's ready to handle the transition. We will need that asset later when it's fully developed and in a cap era, we want those cap friendly years to be used to maximum effect so we can bring in enough other talent to win titles. The pattern of harvesting long before the fruit is ripe is a pattern of starvation and I really don't like what I'm seeing on that basis, and even when it does work it makes talent more expensive in its prime. It's a pattern we desperately need to break away from, even if that means accepting holes in the roster in the immediate term while we reorgainze our plan and adjust our priorities.

"horrible" is a relative statement. 2016 Shaw would have been light years ahead of anyone we have at the position now.

I hate everything about that trade. I wasn't thrilled about it even before it blew up in our faces just as badly as possible. What the hell was DD thinking assuming Shaw was expendable when the only guy behind him was the worst 3B in major sports in 15 and DNP in 16.

Considering that a lot of scouts said that XB was too big and too thick bodied to stick at SS, being able to play at replacement level or better defensively for multiple seasons is a sign of some pretty hard work. I'm sorry that not being an elite defender makes you think he isn't working, but that's a ridiculous sentiment when applied to anyone. Hard work should be measured compared to a player's own personal limits, not some arbitrary statisticall standard, and by that analysis it's clear that XB is working pretty darn hard. He's maintaining himself at a position not everyone thought he could play, and he's defending at a consistently acceptable level. That's enough for me.

You are not. I am a practicing Mormon and have never touched the stuff.

Not any more than rewarding your top workers in the office with the assignments they want. It's not blackmail, it's motivation. Bogaerts knows that the job is his to lose as long as he doesn't suck as a SS, so he's motivated to be the best SS he can. And the best shortstop Xander Bogaerts can be is a pretty damn good shortstop, at least borderline elite if not outright elite when you combine offense and defense Bogaerts is an asset right now, not a problem. There is no need to make any moves that risk him becoming a problem. He's adequate defensively and killing it with the bat and his talent and production levels are super tough to replace at his position. He's the quintessential happy, productive worker. You can keep it that way by letting him keep a job he's frankly pretty productive at and committed to being the best he can be at, or you can make moves for their own sake just to have done something and risk all that exploding in your face. Creating problems and upsetting the apple cart just for the sake of "marking your territory" and making moves for their own sake simply to conform to rigid convention (but Third Base Is A Power Hitter Job! We need a power hitter! I know, we'll steal that one from a position he stands out far more in, and turn an elite shortstop into a merely above average 3B just to satisfy my sense of how the universe should be!) is a stupid way to manage a big company.

it's a possibility. Bit too conventional in my mind. If Lin is the best option, play him. As for where he defends from, I'm indifferent. Does it really matter if we have Glovey McNoodlebat at shortstop or third base? It doesn't affect where he is in the lineup, and frankly I trust the more experienced Bogaerts at short over a newcomer. Moving a guy off his position just because we're such slaves to convention that Our Third Baseman Must Be A Power Hitter doesn't seem particularly well thought out to me, or particularly creative. Besides, I really think this franchise is going to trade for a 3B at the deadline. Moving Bogaerts only to move him back later in the year is a mixed message I don't want to send to a young guy who's just about decent at his position right now. Keep him in his comfort zone, don't make him start thinking about his plays. I don't want him to start missing plays at SS because he's learning 3B at the same time, if you hear what I'm saying.

re you really trying to analyze based on results to rebut someone who's analyzing based on approach? "His problem is that he's getting hit" is almost a nonanswer in context and it's all you've come up with in the last few posts.

I should hope not, seeing fire on the field would force them to suspend the game and get the players off the field for their own safety. Depending on the feeling I recommend either Rolaids or X-LAX

2 1/2 years is a pretty long look. This guy has pissed away chance after chance after chance. At some point anyone with a brain just recognizes the pattern and moves on.

[rant] I've often felt that the metrics underrated defense at first base due to confusion of two different issues, myself. The idea being that 1B is at the bottom of the defensive spectrum and therefore defense there is as unimportant as it can possibly be. I think that's false. The defensive spectrum is about the level of athleticism required to play the position and how rare a really good defender is likely to be. it's about managing risk at different positions and has nothing really to do with finding places to sacrifice defense in favor of offense, despite the fact that that's what it's usually used for in fan discussions. While first base requires less raw athleticism than up the middle positions, the position has a stronger "handsiness" requirement than almost every other position. You can make up for the occasional error at nearly every position with superior athleticism and making plays outside your zone, but not first base. The two positions where the absolute consistency in making routine plays are most critical are first catcher, and then first base. First base is the position on the field other than catcher and pitcher that touches the ball the most. There's a reason catchers who are moved off the backstop position wind up at first base a lot, and it's not always about lack of mobility. The difference between a really good "handsy" defensive 1B, like Napoli or Youkilis, and a mediocre one can be enormous. A defensive 1B can absolutely take away dozens of runs over the course of a season relative to a purely offensive one. Think of the value added by a player like Kevin Youkilis who in his prime was elite on both sides of the ball, over a masher like Ryan Howard who risks exposing the defense on every ground ball play, and in an era where the metagame favors forcing grounders no less. Napoli made an enormous contribution to the success of the 2013 team by turning in a strong year at first base, along with the power he hit for. [/rant]

And once again, the problem really comes down to the difference between fans who think managers make a difference in games and the fans who know they really don't. Manager is a hat with a person under it. The person isn't even as important as the hat and the hat isn't very important. Unless you've got a great guy to fill that post such as Tito or Torre you might as well have just about anyone. Farrell is a nonproblem as a manager. He's an average manager, neither inspiring greatness in his players nor getting in the way of victory. That's fine for the people who all they want is a guy to stand under the hat. IF you're looking for excellence in a manager you're well advised to look elsewhere.

Don't write off Leon just yet. He's a nonliability with the bat and getting it done with the glove, so he'll keep getting playing time. It's entirely possible he goes on another tear later in the year. We actually have a pretty good situation as catcher, we have 2 guys who can spell each other and keep the tandem fresh. it's not as perfect as having one iron man, like Salvador Perez or Yadi Molina, but it'll do to keep the position from becoming a nightmare at the very least.

Sorry, I just disagree. At no point last year was Shaw worse than Sandoval. Shaw was at least 1 win above replacement no matter how you massage the metrics. Sandoval hasn't provided above replacement level production at all for the last 2+ years. It *was* predictable that Shaw would outperform Sandoval, even if Shaw himself did not play at an ideal level. Therefore trading Shaw with a very uncertain replacement was not a safe move, and was not a good move, even if the guy we got in return had actually pitched for us. Never fill one hole by creating another. And yes, Sandoval notwithstanding, trading Shaw created a hole. Sandoval should have been counted on to repeat his performance from the prior 2 years. In other words he should be counted on for nothing and not even factored into offseason planning, much less as the titular starting 3B. Pablo's potential emergence should have been set up for a potential pleasant surprise, not a centerpiece of the team's strategy at a key offensive position. The way to bring back a player like this for maximum results is to have a guy behind him who can start at an adequate level and cover for Pablo if he needs more time to get up to speed. That was Shaw, who has proven he knows how to start hot and could have protected Panda from getting overexposed in April and May while he brought himsekf back on form. Who knows, with less pressure on Pablo to immediately produce it might even have happened. With Shaw as a placeholder they could have eased Panda back in instead of throwing him directly into the fire just exactly as if he hadn't been injured and nonexistent for the last 2 years. That way just as Shaw is wearing out and beginning his second half collapse they'd have had a player they were bringing along back to take over the reins, and it would have been good. The point here is that Shaw was not expendable, and DD didn't seem to realize that. Very disappointing decision making for such a veteran GM. Nevermind that this was done in the wake of trading another 3B prospect, Yoan Moncada, to compound the head-scratching nature of the move by reducing the depth at 3B from both above and below. Dombrowski was basically begging to be screwed over at third base this year by going all in on such a questionable gamble as the return of the Panda. All the baseball gods had to do is make the obvious outcome happen. It was a bad move, justifiable only by putting blind faith in a player who does not deserve it.

Before the call center I worked at closed, I had worked my butt off to earn three promotions and several pay raises. A base level worker made 9/hr. I made 10.20/hr and was bucking for another raise. I got this concession from my employer because I was a leader on my team, one of the most productive workers at the center, and was beginning to take on formal supervisory duties. In other words, I was a star player and centerpiece of the team, and keeping me happy became important. However, if I am performing no better at my job than the guy making 9/hr, why would my employer keep me in harness making 10.20? Answer is they wouldn't, and after a reasonable interval if my performance did not improve, I would either be fired or asked to take a pay cut. If I want to get paid above the minimum, I need to do more than the minimum to keep justifying my wage. That's how the real world works. Since they can't cut Sandoval's wage they need to cut their losses and favor the player doing the minimum for minimum wage, over the guy doing LESS than the minimum, no matter how much he's paid. Marrero is the better ROI right now, until that changes Marrero needs to be maximized, and the damage to the team's fortunes that is Pablo Sandoval, minimuzed until such time as he shows in the limited playing time he will continue to accrue, that he's ready to start performing above that minimum level.

I didn't say no playing time. I said no preference in playing time. He's on the roster, you might as well use him, but don't prefer him unless he's hot. Ignore the empty number that is his salary and put the best player on the field unless you have some reason not to, say a favorable matchup or a platoon split. If Sandoval performs, reward him with more work. If not? Don't. If "getting him going" was gonna work it would have worked 2 1/2 years ago. Dole out playing time as and only as he earns it with his performance the last time you had no choice but to use him.

It's Sandoval's literal and only job to create separation at the third base position and make himself the obvious choice over replacement level options like Marrero. When a literal replacement player (Marrero) represented an objective upgrade over a player, the player in question has already spectacularly failed. if Sandoval can't create separation between himself and that tier of player the logical response is to stop preferring him over that tier of player. Right now the difference between Marrero and Sandoval is that Marrerro has a ghost of a chance to improve. That being said it is absolutely brainless to give Sandoval preferential access to playing time at third base until he's shown he has earned it.

Kimmi.... listen, I appreciate your loyalty to this guy, but Pablo Sandoval came into this year needing to go out of his way to prove something. He needed to show he could still be a professional ballplayer that could stay healthy and be effective. He needed to do something immediately to restore our faith. We haven't been short of patience with the guy, a lot of us were pulling for him this year, but it's been 2+ years, if he wants to win us over, he needed to start in April Not being on the field in this situation due to wear and tear based injury is not called "not getting a chance." It's called "player not fit for active service." He's lost weight but he's still too big. He can't count on youthful healing to repair the extra wear and tear his body is put under by the extra pounds he's carrying. And even if he was at his ideal weight right now, that doesn't erase the damage his weight has already done, all the extra wear and tear on his joints and back. That stuff adds up, I know this only too well. Pablo was on his last chance going into this year for most of us. This team gave Pablo a big fat chance by not keeping Travis Shaw, who, let's be honest, was outplaying Sandoval last year in the short time the competition was relevant, would probably have outplayed Sandoval this year even if Sandoval was healthy, and even factoring in Shaw's huge slump last Augist and September Shaw was by far the better baseball player in the snapshot of time that was the opening of the 2017 season. They cleared that guy out of the way so that Pablo could play, they took a huge risk to give Pablo as good a chance as he could earn and even risked exposing themselves massively at third base to do it. In a year in which they felt themselves to be on top of the league and had a hell of a lot to lose no less. And he turned around and repeated the same old nonsense we've already seen. Unable to stay on the field, and even when he is on it, even when that rare bolt of lightning that is a healthy Pablo appeared, unable to stay there or produce positively for the team. At some point it's just time to stop throwing good man-games after bad and let someone else have a crack at the job. There comes a point where the chances end. We have been far more patient with Pablo Sandoval than he has any real right to expect. There comes a point that we have to remember that the objective is to win baseball games, not coddle morbidly obese 32 year olds. With a third straight year of being unable to stay on the field and turning in below replacement level production even when he's there, I think it's pretty clear to the dispassionate observer that the well is dry, and further pumping of said well will just yield more salt and disappointment.

Travis is a hot bat. I don't want him sent down until and unless he's not helping us. The strong possibility he gets sent down as the "answer" to Pedroia's return is what I meant when I was babbling about opportunity costs. Pablo is a great big fat liability. He may be less fat than he was, but not less of a liability. Axe that man.

The hit to the Cap is just another sunk cost in this situation MVP. The only way to get out of it is to trade Sandoval, and really -- what would induce YOU to take a flyer on the guy at this point?

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/how-the-sunk-cost-fallacy-makes-you-act-stupid.html The money is gone. It's guaranteed. He will get his money no matter what, period. You can't get that money back. That means it doesn't even MATTER to rational decision making. You have to write that money off and do what's best for the team and DD is not doing that by compounding the problem of the lost money by letting Sandoval keep playing BELOW REPLACEMENT LEVEL ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Sandoval is literally providing negative value even if you ignore the sunk cost, and players who are actually moderately useful, such as Rutledge, Marrero and Travis are on the chopping block as a result. idiotic. Literally counterproductive in several different ways. The only reason to keep playing Sandoval is to try to look good if he performs well. Given 2.5 years of complete nonproductive play the odds of successfully "turning him around" are microscopic, and doing it for sheer preening points is moronic in light of the opportunity cost of either losing an infielder or having to demote a guy who's red hot at the plate. FFS the executive who signed the guy has already fallen on his sword. There is nothing to salvage here. Let Panda fall through the cracks and put an actual baseball player in his place. Executives of a top baseball organization need to use brain on world better than this. AXE THIS GUY ALREADY.

I want it to be Sandoval. Seriously how the hell does this guy keep conning this team into giving him more chances? He's got nothing and he's had nothing for THREE FREAKING YEARS. Get it in your heads guys. Sandoval is a dud. Yeah he used to be an all star but that was over 3 years ago. he's a dud and he's been a dud for years. Move the **** on. Marrerro at least provides value with the glove, and if the team is smart they will give Travis all the AB's he can handle until he cools off. That means the odd man out, if it's not the guy that it should be if there was any justice in the world, is Rudledge.

The Red Sox came back and won Zink's game. One of those really entertaining slugfests where both teams score 2 digits of runs IIRC The really weird thing about it was IIRC Zink got through 4 without a lot of damage, and then his stuff just failed the third time through the Rangers order. I thought we had a decent scrubtime starting option at the time, at least until they opened up on the poor guy.