TheKilo

Then how much credit can you give them for the win in '04?

Now what happens if the stress of closing makes his shoulder explode? Do you think Tito will use him better this year? I don't.

This thread is full of fail.

I think 95-97 wins is a good estimate if most of the "what if's break the Sox's way." If Drew gets hurt, or if Lugo reverts to second half form last year, or if Dicke-K underperforms, or if Paps doesn't hold up in the closer's role...etc...etc...it could be 2006 part deux. edit - triple post'd. Sorry.

Not exactly the same way, but the FO recognized a need and filled it. Nomar was not very productive for us in '04, and he had become increasingly fragile as time went on. I don't think the FO said to themselves "If we make this move, we make the playoffs", but I do think they said "If we don't do something, we don't make the playoffs." Cashman did a great job in picking up Abreu for nothing. Understandable, but just because they weren't projected as stars doesn't mean they were excellent moves. No one saw Ortiz coming, just as no one saw Mueller winning the '03 batting title. I'll agree when I thought they were complimentary moves, but at the time we had star quality players in Pedro, Manny, Nomar, and Trot Nixon. These guys were definitely an upgrade over the Jose Offermans of the world.

Packers trade Aaron Rodgers for Randy Moss Sign David Carr Start fitting the rings, baby.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend to know what's going on, but I can't make an assessment of certain deals until I see how they play out. By all accounts, Marte is struggling mightily in Cleveland. But there's still time for him to turn it around. It doesn't take away from the fact I LOVED the deal at the time. Cornerstone SS? Who? Renteria? OCab? They are serviceable, no doubt, but not cornerstone. I think i've made clear I think both the Paps and Mirabelli moves are and were awful ones. However I don't think it's enough to get Lucchino fired, because I don't have enough information to make that claim. If the team struggles, changes should be made.

Well, they signed an ace pitcher and an ace closer (which, by the way, if we had either in '03 I think we win), so in a way those moves did lead to the title. Trading Nomar was the right move. It upgraded the infield defense, which was absolutely awful up to that point. Fac it, Nomar wasn't happy and it took a lot of guts for Theo trade trade a player people had annointed as a "Boston Icon." Picking up Ortiz, Millar, and Mueller were low risk moves that paid tremendous dividends. You can say they got lucky, but the fact is the FO wanted to sign them and they did. Yes they should feel lucky Ortiz turned into the player he is, but the FO had to think they were all going to contribute. Excellent last point, by the way. If we hadn't won in '04 I guarantee we have a new GM right now, which is really the point of this thread, isn't it?

Holy s***...we agree somewhat? f***. Now I'm gonna have to change my opinion. Two things though - 1. Grace Periods are for the most part worthless, but keep in mind what the title in '04 meant to the city of Boston and all Red Sox fans. I keep hearing things like "Dave Roberts/Keith Foulke/Curt Schilling/etc. will never have to pay for a meal in Boston ever again." Obvioulsy '04 will always be special to us, and that's why I think '04 gave the FO a free pass for the last two years. 2. If you've ever read "Feeding the Monster", it paints a picture of just how overly competitive Lucchino is and how his views often clash with Theo's. I have to wonder if the conflict behind closed doors has led to some panic moves that Theo would not have typically made (the shining example being the Mirabelli deal for Bard and Meredith last year).

This thread really isn't a dissection of the moves themselves, but more to try to guage the overall perception of the Front Office. But I'll make the changes.

I'm really getting juiced for baseball season now, so I figured I'd open with a debate here. This was inspired by Plump's thread. It's clear there are many differing opinions about the FO here, whether people defend them (I consider myself to do this almost routinely) and people who are openly critical (a700 and Mr. Crunchy are good examples). Obviously, neither opinion is 100% right and neither is 100% wrong. What is clear is that this front office brought the Red Sox their first world title in 86 years. Yes, there were a lot of players from the Duquette era, but the most important ones, IMO, the ones that put the finishing touches on the title run, were brought in by Theo and Co. Since then, the bad moves have outweighed the good ones. It seemed that every move the FO made from November of '04 on was a questionable one. The latest came about yesterday when in what looked to be a panic move, shifted Papelbon's role (again) to be the teams closer. I am concerned whether or not Paps can hold up the entire season in the role, but we'll just have to wait and see. GOOD MOVES Signing Ortiz, Millar, Mueller, etc. for what amounted to be chump change The Curt Schilling trade Signing Keith Foulke Having the balls to trade Nomar The Dave Roberts Trade Drafting guys like Papelbon, Bucholz, Bowden, etc. Renteria for Marte Not giving Pedro the 4th year (I love Petey, but look at his shoulder now if you question it) Mirabelli for Loretta BAD MOVES Signing Clement and not Derek Lowe Signing Renteria Letting Damon walk (I don't think this was awful, but the team handled the negotiations terribly) Any and every bullpen signing Meredith/Bard for Mirabelli (Clear panic move) JURY'S STILL OUT ON THESE ONES Beckett trade Crisp trade Lugo, Drew, Dice-K signings Not giving Schilling an extension Papelbon's ever changing role Bronson for WMP And there's others I have probably missed. In the hit or miss world of baseball transactions, it seems as though the FO has been missing rather than hitting lately. I love Theo, and his eye for position players is pretty good, but he's awful when it comes to constructing a bullpen. The string of bad moves left us with the third place finish last year. My question to Talksox is, has the grace period run out on this front office? How many more questionable moves can they make before change comes about? I haven't seen results from trades that were viewed as "can't miss" by a lot of Red Sox fans and employees. Are people going to continue to be patient with the FO because of 2004, or are people feeling the need for some changes to be made? Personally, if the Sox disappoint this year, I think it'd be time for JWH to re-evaluate what goes on in that front office. It may sound spoiled, or like I think we are entitled to win and be competitive, but with a payroll like the Red Sox have it's the way life is. I criticize the Yankees up and down for their payroll, yet I look at that team and think "They're going to be in the race until the very end." I look at our team, with our increased payroll, and think "We MIGHT be in the race, if x y and z happen." I don't like that. I don't think it's out of the question to think that a team with the resources of the Red Sox should be competitive year in and year out, without any question. Thoughts?

John Leiber would be better than Tavarez/Snyder/Gabbard, but it'd depend on how much the Phillies want for him. 9-11 with a 4.93 ERA and 1.3 WHIP doesn't command a lot of excitement, but he did pitch in a sandbox of a ballpark. Worth a look, I guess.

Plump's got a point. I'm as staunch a defender of the FO as there is and I honeslty don't know if they know what they are doing anymore. I don't care...as long as the team is competitive. If the Sox struggle this year, I won't be happy about it.

He said pitchers. Meaning 3/4 games would be a QS.

If Tennesse doesn't hold on this will be the biggest choke job I've seen in 5 days.

Emeka Okafor is and forever will be the s***.

Right now Tavarez. In two months, Clemens.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c367/bosstones58/BeatDeadHorse.gif

Ugh. I'd rather keep Papelbon in the rotation and deal for a guy like Lidge or Cordero, and we all know I had reservations about Cordero. I think this is the FO re-signing Mirabelli, part 2. It's a clear panic move.

You said that three weeks ago...and yet here you are.

He probably had too much NyQuil.

Pedroia's track record gives me confidence for him though, but i guess I can give you varitek.