seabeachfred

Negtive Spud. That does not describe you at all. You and others stuck it out this past season and weren't afraid to let the front office have it when it was necessary while others fled the board when it got too hot here. Masterson would be a good No. 5 and possibility a 4 if he makes a decent comeback. He is not an ace or a number two and he still can't get lefthanders out to save his ass. I want Hamels and Shields. One will cost p rospects and one will cost a lot of money now. If we want to win we cannot nickel and dime our way to a World Series. It just can't be done. We tried it in '09 with over the hill Smoltz and the worthless Penny. What we got was our assed handed to us.

Kuddos to you cp. I have been a Red Sox fan only since 2000 and they make me walk the floor at night and skip meals. Admittedly, I seem always on the ledge but the Sox do this to me. How you've endured all those years is a testament not only to your loyalty but your coolness under fire. I wish I had some of that. At least some people here are asking some tough questions today and I'm wondering about Hanley Ramirez too. That was a bad signing. Well on to the next crisis, like getting two pitchers that can help us win something next season besides an entry into a no title ALDS. I want a division title at the least next season, and after this miserable season Red Sox fans should demand nothing less.

Yes, I do appreciate what Jacko because if some of you Red Sox fans are going to drink the Kool Aid and still give the front office their due, some people are going to have to speak up and skewer Henry and Co. for their stupidity in letting this happen. This could turn out to be debacle unless we get two top quality starters, and I sure as hell don't mean Masterson by that. Nor Leake, Latos, Santana or McCarthy. You don't like Cole Hamels. I do and that is one of the two we need to get, a top notch No. 1 type lefthander---and, yes, it will cost us players and or prospects even though we're in complete agreement that the Phillies' Ruben Amaro Jr. is a total moron as a GM. Shields we agree on too. What we don't agree on is to cut Henry some slack right now. He doesn't deserve it until he gets us those two pitchers we need badly and finally understands he's not going to get much for Cespedes except a bad team headache if he fails to trade him and has to see him on a fractured team bench and clubhouse next season.

Jacko, you nailed it just as my fried IO did a few posts back. Yet you are going to see some of the bootlickers and ball washers on this board spin this just as Prune Face and Lucchintzy will and drink the Kool Aid that these two clowns know what they're doing. And, yes, we still have Cespedes and his value is shrinking like a lead weight by the day. Things could improve with a day or two for us but I'm not counting on that either. This whole Lester thing has blown up in their faces and the majority of us should be ripping the front office to shreds. I didn't expect Lester back but I do expect these two dipshits to go out now and get us two top notch starters not named Leake, Latos, Santana or McCarthy. Of course, whether they can or not, they should never forget how they f***ed this one up.

Maybe, but f*** John Henry and Larry Lucchino more. They brought this travesty on themselves with their abject stupidity.

Right on the money IO. I pretty much expected what took place in so far as Lester was NOT coming back to Boston, and we all should just be honest about it. The front office blew this sky high way back in the previous off season when they stupidly low balled Jon and greased their own skids. Moreover, no one should be anything but totally critical to Prune Face and his cohorts until they rectify our starting rotation---which they may or not do in good order. Right now our starting staff consists of Kelly, Masterson, Buchholz, Delarosa and Webster. That's garbage one, a last place one, a despicable one. We need two top notch starters, not a couple of threes or a two and a three because that will not get it done. We need to get Cole Hamels from the Phillies and do it as soon as possible. Yes, it will cost us prospects and talent but it must be done. That and signing James Shields to be our No. 2 guy. These names I'm hearing like Leake, Latos, Santana, McCarthy, well, do you want to win or be mediocre. Those names lead to failure. Cole and James could lead to victory. You blew it Prune Face so now rectify it and get us those two pitchers we need..........and trade Cespedes before we blow that one too.

If we could keep Betts, Owens and Swihart I say go and make that deal with the Phillies and give them four or five prospects for Hamels. We don't win anything next season without a top lefthander in the rotation and a solid righty No. 2 man, and Kelly, Masterson, Buchholz and Delarosa are not it.

I don't think we have a chance to get both Lester and Hamels but I would like to see either a Lester-Shields twosome or a Hamels-Shields one. That's my preference.

It could depend on how important the money is.....you know, it's always about the money OR whether Lester enjoyed his years in Red Sox red that he wants to return and let bygones be bygones from the shoddy treatment he received with that boneheaded offer this Spring. At last look, the Giants and the Dodgers were told they were out of it so we are still in the running.

MJ, check with me in about a week or two. I might just surprise you.

Sounds so easy mvp GM. However, if we lose on Lester we will need a good No. 1 pitcher and that to me is Hamels who has contract that would sit well with Henry, and I like a LH starter heading the rotation. If it comes to that you can bet that we will have to ante up good to get Cole. He and Shields. That's my No. 1 and 2 if we lose on Lester.

I think you are squirming on this signing more than anyone Pal---and I hope for your sake....and mine, that we can sign Jon. Not to throw cold water on things but you've heard me say I don't think he's coming back to Boston but there seems to have been some movement in our direction so we may be getting an 11th hour reprieve on this thing. Just for the record, I predicted on the Bosox Board site that Jon would be signed by the San Francisco Giants but that seems to have been now blown out of the water so I know about as much as you do as to where Jon will eventually wind up......actually probably a lot less.

No mvp!!!!! Your friend here and Bellhorn are in on this. But, speaking only for myself, I am NOT on with Masterson unless he is a No. 5 or a 6.

Well Ted, it is getting to be that time that the bootlickers and ball washers get behind the front office and praise them for their amazing aplomb in getting us these mediocrities, but most of us here know that a Masterson is hardly better than the worthless Buchholz or the overrated Webster. Then, again, to some the front office can do no wrong. Of course, to some of us, we wonder when they are going to do something right......like getting Lester and if not him then Hamels and a good No. 2 man like Shields. That's the way you win something, not with people like Masterson or Santana. Thank God Liriano and Hummel were swept up already or we'd have more to worry about.

Could it be our new prune face might actually be the original one and just infiltrated this board to try and convince us the low risk high reward cheap way in the way to win....NOTHING!!!!!

Our farm system recently has been an overrated and bloated pack of disappointments. We haven't had one prospect come to the Red Sox in years and produce for us, Bogaerts, Middlebrooks and Bradley being the latest in a series of underachievers. As for Liriano, I say what mvp said....HE STINKS. And thank God we won't make the mistake with that guy in our rotation. The Pirates save us that embarrassment. And we'll never win the prize with a bunch of threes. Remember 2004, 2007, 2013? We sure as hell didn't win with a bunch of threes those years, did we?

Not if the Red Sox try holding other teams up and demand more than he is worth. You don't want an angry and upset Cespedes sitting on the Red Sox bench in 2015 because the clubhouse and team will be fractured beyond recovery because we will have a couple of other players pissed that they should be playing. The Red Sox have to get rid of not one, not two but three of their outfielders if they want harmony on the team.

Right mvp, I didn't like the three year $39 million dollar contract they gave Shane because I saw him on TV many times during his last two months in the NL with the Dodgers and he looked very bad.....especially hitting or trying to hit from the left side. Of course, what was I saying after the first few months of the 2013 season when he settled it with the team. Did I admit I was wrong about Vic? Did he become one of my favorites on the team. What did I say when I came back home from Boston after the ALCS and first two games of the WS? See, I think if you can remember my negative take on Victorino in the pre-season, you should also be able to remember what I said from June on. But, be honest.....you don't remember the good things I said about him, do you? That's ok, we usually remember when we or others screw up and not when they are right. I guess I'm the same way.

I think the Red Sox had better wake the hell up and realize what you said---Cespedes does have limited trade value for all the reasons you stated and he would be a negative influence on a fractured clubhouse unless he is traded and pronto. The Sox have to realize they are not going to get a No. 1 or even a number two pitcher for him and should settle for a number three.

If Shane is healthy and I hope he is, I would hate to see him go too. He is a gamer, he is a leader, he is a winner, he is a champion. Those kind of guys are hard to get and harder to replace.

I'd like to see that too Spud but if we lose on Lester and have to go for Hamels he is not going to be had for a combo of Cespedes and Craig or Craig and Victorino. The Phils had Vic and he is too old for a team that is rebuilding and Cespedes is a one year rental and will go FA and the Phils are not going to take a chance that they can sign up long term. Craig? We don't know how much his value has shrunk since his bad season this year, though I have a feeling he might have a good comeback year. No, if we go for Hamels you better believe the names you're going to hear from Philadelphia are Betts, Marrero, Owens, Swihart and Coyle........some combo of those three. Bank on it.

Hey mvp, I hope you don't mind me playing copy cat, but between Rosenthal and Abraham, f*** THAT!!!!!!!!

Don't kick yourself my friend because, excuse the slang, IT AIN'T YOU!!!!! I think the picture is becoming clearer to everyone. Lester does NOT want to come back to Boston, and as I've said all along, he isn't coming back. Yes, I hope I'm off base there, but the facts are becoming clearer by the day. The front office low balled him in the Spring and traded him in the summer. Do you believe for a minute he was believing the ******** being dispensed by Prune Face Senior and his cohorts that they really wanted him back? Having lost Lester we need Hamels and that is going to cost us and cost us plenty......AND IT ALL COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THE FRONT OFFICE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THEIR HEADS OUT AND OFFERED HIM A MAJOR EXTENSION RIGHT AFTER WE WON THE WORLD SERIES A YEAR AGO.

Is Edes someone who is trustworthy or is he dispensing some more s***? I remember him when he wrote out here for the Los Angeles Times and he had his nose so far up the Dodger front office's ass that he was always gasping for breath. I promised I wouldn't go to the ledge until after New Year's but I don't believe a think I hear from that guy. What actually is he saying?

And that's the bottom line Ted----and I think we all have come to understand that unless there a couple of guys here we don't know about who think we'll get something for nothing. Good pitching costs....simple as that. You either pay good money for it, or good players and or prospects for it unless you want to finish where we did this season..