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Well like I said before I will be really surprised if they give up on Lester with Farrell coming to town and so many holes to fill already in the rotation. That said how typical would it be for the Sox to trade pitching for a "potential" bat even when they are already starved for pitching. Tom Yawkey walks back through the door every 5 minutes down there at Fenway. There is a thought that will probably send half the board running for their oxygen masks.

Well I have always liked Vmart but they are going to have to change the name to the Detroit Mastodons at the rate they are going. During some rain delay game poor Jackson is going to get crushed in a stampede to the clubhouse buffet table.

Well this has to be somebody other than Gomes. Wonder who LL is talking about....sounds like it must be either Ross or Swisher....no?

Well I hate to say it but it does make you wonder if they are waiting for the initial returns on ticket sales before deciding what to do next. While I always expect the Sox and any other team for that matter to care first about the top and bottom line, I could also be convinced that it goes so far this year to include, checking the early ticket sales and turning the money tap just as far as they think they need to go to make that ticket sale line move. Would be a shame if that is what is going on.

I would not be surprised if Wilson got more money just to stay in SF. He is a crowd favorite out there. While I don't think that will have the kind of impact that it did with Ortiz back here, I still think SF will see value in what Wilson brings to the table beyond just the raw stats and will try to make it attractive for him to stay. Certainly all things taken into consideration stats and draw for the fans it should push what they offer well past what Madson got from the Angels.

Well first off you never really know how a guy is going to come out of TJ. What Madson's numbers where may not matter all that much. I know we are a pretty disgruntled group at the moment but just as it was when discussing Paps a year ago, there is much to fix before we start worrying about who is closing to the point of adding Madson to our list of grievances. Lets not forget how far removed we are from where the Angels are today. At some number it might have been a nice flyer to take but really at the end of the day Madson is a distraction for us. Oh boy another bullpen guy.... However I do think it is the kind of deal the Sox have to be looking at...guys that are a risk but that can be had cheaply are a way different deal than guys that are a risk that the Sox pay a fortune for. So if we were talking about a starting pitcher with a good track record with some risk associated by way of surgery or some other element but that came cheaply I would be really pissed if the Sox missed that kind of opportunity. So insert that sort of starting pitcher where Madson just was and the Sox need to be all over that sort of deal. We missed a couple of starting pitcher deals pretty much like that last year and regretted it. Did not jump at Oswalt and his back problems and that turned out to be the right move. I think there is a difference between a guy coming off surgery and a guy with a chronic problem that is serious, debilitating when it is in bloom and not going away.

I wonder how much more money the Dodgers are going to spend in the manner they have been spending it. Will they keep at it until they buy a WS?....I wonder. They could screw things up for a long time if they keep buying guys like Beckett, Crawford and Agons. Could be a looooong time before they win anything while burning through a ton of money, screwing up the market at the same time.

Whoops....700 was posting up details as I was posting. I still would have wanted the guaranteed money a little lower if this were a Sox deal and I probably would have been a little stingier on the incentives. But I can see how the Angels can talk themselves into this. Unfortunately for the Angels they are in that worst of all positions.....thinking they are just one or two chancy deals away from a World Series. That said when we have been in those situations, out come the multimillion $ canons....usually aimed at our own knee caps!

No $3.5m is just a little to rich for my blood. But as I said earlier I would have been a little disappointed if he went for $2.5m. The Red Sox cough and $2.5m comes out. At $2.5m IF he would have agreed to a contract that did not guarantee that he close, I would have been disappointed if they did not take such a flier. Although that part does sound kinda' weird...how can the Angels guarantee him he will close when he may not pitch early in the year? I can see them guaranteeing that he gets a shot to close but guaranteeing that he will be the closer seems impractical....No????

Yea I would agree that CC was an against the grain signing for Theo but what we were hearing was that Theo was doing the pushing in this case. I am not convinced that LL could get Theo to "push" for that sort of signing. Heck I would think LL would have had to hypnotize him to get him to go that far. Even JH when he simply could not resist the temptation to tell the world that he was agin' it from the start blurted out that Baseball Operations pushed for it...and of course that has to mean Theo I think. I don't even think Theo was trying to dodge that bullet on the way out the door while at the same time trying to tell us what kinds of pressures he was under that motivated moves like that. That stuff does fall squarely on LL's shoulders I think although LL immediately tried to rebut Theos remarks. I did not believe LL for a minute and thought Theo came very much closer to the truth about how things go down at Fenway.

Well if he wanted guarantees that might be hard to give. But Madson's surgery was in April as I remember. So it would seem he would get a good bit of 2013 in. I am sure the Angels think he will be pitching in 2013.

No question it is an overpay. But I would be willing to bet anything that GM's would have been falling all over themselves at 5/$60 just as an example and even that is a bit of an overpay I think. But my God do we have nothing to be proud of thanks to bonehead theo. Think about how hideous 7/$142 really was when two years later, Upton draws 5/$75.

But Madson could be a cheap take a gamble guy that could be better than some of the guys occupying uniforms now and 3.5m does not seem to be much money to risk on such a gambit. I little pricier than I would have liked but some deals like that where it could work out but could bust are likely in the works for this team I would think. Where they have really screwed up I think is in paying $6M and more!!!! for these post op guys and those deals I completely agree should be avoided. Then you are tossing some real money out on the table. If Madson could have been had for $2.5 instead of $3.5, I really would have been disappointed.

Wow Madson for 3.5...how the mighty have fallen. That is just the sort of deal I was talking about in the other thread though so that does sort of torque me off. I guess I could salve my wounds on the fact that the Sox one decent area is bullpen. Would still would have preferred to kick one of a number of dead weight dolts off the squad for Madson though.

By the way by smaller deals I mean deals for guys that are trying to reestablish some value or have some degree of risk attached to them but that come without hefty price tags in years and maybe not even in dollars. I suspect that Hamilton comes in to draw crowds and solidify the middle of the order with Ortiz. But the real plan ends up pointing to 2014 when the Sox will: - still have Ortiz have Hamilton - the B's starting to arrive on the scene, - the young guys playing this year that work out - the guys they sifted through from these smaller deals finding the gems in them. Somewhere along the way they add at least one really solid arm to the rotation I hope and bang they are rolling in 2014.

I certainly do not know this but I think there is a chance that the Sox upper management really does not have much confidence in Baseball Operations. If that is the case then they need to make a change. I am suggesting that if there is a logjam....a place down there at Fenway where there is maybe some degree of unwillingness to act it may well be above BC's pay grade. If in fact they have no confidence in Baseball Ops but won't make changes then BC is being left as a placeholder, indefinitely. If I had to guess, my guess would be that the Sox will end up making one really big blockbuster deal this offseason....big enough to draw the attention and direct participation of of LL and JH and after that, a bunch of smaller deals that don't really amount to much but that allows the guys that have been languishing down on the farm a chance to play. in part that is why I think Hamilton may really be on the radar screen. The Sox get Hamilton and wait for an opening to bring in a serious arm for the rotation while they wait for the guys like the B's etc to come up. In the meantime, Kalish, Iggy and Lavs get to play and the Sox get to really figure out what they have there. All leads to a major push in 2014 behind a combination of the B's coming up, the guys that work out this year, Hamilton and Ortiz holding down the middle of the order and an arm or two brought in between now and the start of the 2014 season.

Interesting about the varied takes on Swisher as a clubhouse guy. Some folks think he has been a good clubhouse guy. I guess others think less of him. I could easily see how he would rub guys the wrong way.

I don't think Napoli will end up in Boston. Swisher maybe although I hate that prima dona. Should have had a pinstriped tutu for a uni last year. Ross...I guess maybe. I would sooner believe that the Sox are going to make a legit run at Hamilton than that they would make legit runs at all three of Napoli, Swisher and Ross.

I would have thought BJ would have gotten a bit less than that in $$ but that does not seem like that much of an overpay. He does not K nearly as often as Salty but the point is a good one. Salty was not going to draw zippo. If they were to package him up the Sox could get something really worthwhile back. Salty is (really have to squint to see it) a catcher. Anybody that can get into a squat seems to qualify at least to some degree. Plus some team will likely look at him as a catcher that can also DH some. We have one of the last of the full time dedicated DH's in Ortiz so that just does not mean anything to us. It will mean something to somebody though.

Salty power is for real as long as you are willing to take 200 K's a year. K's are not all that bad out of the catchers spot but 200!!! If the guy could catch AT ALL, I would say OK....I will take his 25 HR's AND his 200 K's. But he can't catch...he can't catch his way out of a hat. I am not saying Lavs is better at this point but at least Lavs give you some hope. The only reason Salty is the Sox catcher is cause the Sox do this as much about defense in the critical defensive positions on the field as they do about pitching. Both go under appreciated for big bats and that is why the Sox hardly ever compete for anything. That is why historically they fade year after year after year with those few exceptions when they are a balanced enough team to go anywhere. The more interesting phenomenon is how often Fenway Nation, battered and bruised after another year of watching teams with better overall balance and better pitching slip past the Sox on their way to bigger and better things don't just raise up in revolt realizing that if we continue to accept utility infielders at SS and journeyman catchers and substandard pitching all so that we can focus on wall busters, we will continue to go nowhere.

The Sox always struggle with whether they are rebuilding or not or more specifically what we think they are doing. But this year, it may just not even matter that much. If the decisions are Ichiro vs Kalish.....why even consider Ichiro. What is he going to do for you that is more relevant for one year than finally finding out what you have in Kalish. If the choice is moving Salty or moving Lavs, why would you keep Salty?....cause he might give you a little bit more in the short run than Lavs.... This team is not going from the cellar to the penthouse in one year.....if there is one thing you can bet the mortgage on it is that. Not that Riddick is that great a player but who is to say that Riddick has had some degree of success in Oakland cause he was not always looking over his shoulder at who might replace him if he had a bad week. Lets the young guys play in 2013. If there ever was a year to let the young guys play it is 2013.

Well if not Salty then the Sox have to move Lavs. It is one or the other and I don't think it will be Lavs. Another year of watching Salty boot balls around the plate, forget that home plate is his bag to cover, give pitcher's what is very possibly the worst target in baseball and still seem incapable of calling a good game or handling the pitching staff generally may just be more than anybody can take. It will surely be more than I can take. Lavs/Salty in 2013 is very likely the same kind of deal that Ichiro/Kalish is for 2013. If you are not going to give Lavs his shot this year then when? If never then move him. However that means that at least for now you are committed to Salty and for what.....he is not getting better behind the plate and what he does back there offsets those 25 HR's assuming he can even repeat that. Frankly I think the only dif between them is that Lavs is younger and more likely to improve his skills behind the plate than Salty.

I also seriously doubt Lester is on the block for one simple reason. Pitching is pretty costly to acquire at this point and the Sox already don't have enough. So how can the Sox justify to themselves giving up even more pitching when they have so far not even filled the holes they have? It really does not matter if Lester is a 1 or not a 1 or a 3 or whatever. He has a decent track record. Yes he has been declining but he is not physically screwed up...at least as far as we know. He has the guy that he prospered with most as pitching coach coming back as manager. Every guy out there that the Sox can overpay for has some issue or another which makes them no better a bet than Lester and in many cases worse AND more costly. So what are we talking about here? Lets move Lester so we can bring in more Lesters or worse? I don't even know how much faith I have in their ability to judge pitching. The Bailey move was a disaster, not because Riddick was such a gem of an everyday player but because Bailey represented nothing. Bailey was never going to be a solid closer for a contending team and if the Red Sox are not contending or working toward contending what are they doing? So why was Bailey ever going to be a better move than what 75% of MLB teams do to come up with a closer if in a pinch? Bailey will likely end up being yet another player that has his sorry ass moved for next to nothing and we have yet another example of the Sox losing both the player that they gave up, Riddick, and the player that they got, Bailey, and have nothing to show for it. Lester might not get you the 220 innings that you would expect from a 1 but he will likely be good for at least 180+ innings. You have to hand one thing to the guy....he has been the most consistent innings eater the Sox have had even in his more troubling seasons. Scary that he has been the best the Sox have had but it is what it is.

I think Ichiro's performance in NY has something to do with his comfort level in NY. If somebody said that we were going to get that for the 2013 season, we might go ahead and sign up for that. I am not convinced that will happen though. Plus we end up with a guy clogging a spot for a guy that we probably really....finally have to do something with....Kalish. Signing up some pitchers to short term deals is one thing. We don't have any players that said pitchers would be blocking and if they help make you respectable/competitive for a period, fine. But if we have a choice between giving a player that has been waiting forever either due to injury or other factor a year to finally see what we have and blocking him further, 2013 is the year to figure that player out.

Apparently the Sox and KC were in general discussions the past few days. Everybody's name gets mentioned in those discussions cause both sides are trying to figure out which players there might at least be some movement on and which would be "a hard no". I don't even know why somebody thinks this sort of stuff is even worth a leak. The mediots are always looking to get their columns over the crease though.