TheRivernator

will coco see manny go?? I dunno?? Ham, I agree. Damon wanted Boston, he wanted to be a sox, so be it. The problem is, once Furcal signed, then the market changed and Damons value jumped. The yankees paid market value, the sox refused to make a market correction. They ended up landing coc in the end, but if they signed damon, they would still have Marte, Shoppach, Mota, a PTBNL, and possibly delcarmen. The deal they ended up making with cleveland filled some holes, but the future holes that the trade they made with cleveland will become evident if Lowell shows that last yr was a correct eval of his current level fo play. Bottom line, the loss of damon gets them a mini-version of Damon at the loss of some key players. Just remember, adding coco is not a gain, it is still a slight dropoff from the production you were given in that spot from last yr. Looking at it as a whole, the sox dropped off at 3b, at SS (believe it or not), at 1b possibly, and in cf. BUT, if the guys play up to potential, then they can equal that production....

hey there wells how u been buddy. Here is how it should work out... 1. Crisp CF 2. Loretta 2B 3. Ortiz DH 4. Ramirez LF 5. Varitek C 6. Lowell 3B 7. Nixon RF 8. Youkilis 1B 9. Gonzalez SS

I find it funny how he gives the coco deal a nice slant to it. First of all, Coco is a fine CFer and will likely be good for years to come. BUT, inside this deal, you gave up a prime corner IF prospect who is ready for the bigs. He was worth more than Coco on his own. Riske for Mota in the deal is okay, but if Mota regains his 2003 form, then he will be a much better player than the steadily consistent yet unspectacular Riske is. Bard for Shoppach is a complete dropoff in value. Shoppach is considered in the fantasy realms as a top 30 catcher already and projects to being a 25-30 homer backstop, which are hard to find at a very thin position. But the fact that the sox will have to add a PTBNL is a nice throwin to. Basically, the sox gave up more universally recognized potential in this deal. One question though, is there any truth to the rumor that if Mota goes to the DL because of his arm, then the Guardians will be able to require DelCarmen? I have heard that from multiple sources....

Has anyone read this article by Peter Gammons? Is there any bigger boston spin doctor than this guy, well aside from the curly haired troll. Here is the article posted on ESPN... The deal entailed more than 110 phone calls between assistant GMs Chris Antonetti of the Guardians and Jed Hoyer of the Red Sox alone, separate from conversations between Mark Shapiro, Theo Epstein, Pat Gillick and Reds GMs Dan O'Brien and Brad Kullman, who had been a part of all this for weeks. Then there were the complex physicals for Guillermo Mota and Arthur Rhodes, and, finally, getting the Commissioner's Office to sign off on the cash Boston is -- and, perhaps, will -- pay Cleveland. Finally, on Saturday morning, Shapiro called Antonetti. "Now," said Shapiro, "we begin our 13-day offseason." It was a hectic week for the Guardians, who traded one of their most popular and ascending players to get what they and many others consider a special, future, corner star (third baseman Andy Marte) and enough of an upgrade in Mota and catcher Kelly Shoppach to continue building for the long run and not compromise their 2006 season. But for the Red Sox, this was the end to a week that might spawn another dozen books. The week began with Epstein's return. Now, from the end of the winter meetings, this was an inevitability, yet it received more coverage than John Kerry winning the Democratic nomination in 2004. Some of the coverage turned into comic theater, where some media members wrote more about themselves and some myopic views than the issues. But John Henry, Tom Werner, Larry Lucchino and Epstein hammered out their organizational constitution -- to clear up some of the self-promoting leaks, agree on a long-term vision and work to value players and stick to those valuations so that they didn't get run up the mainsail in free-agent negotiations. And now it seems as if the Red Sox are more focused and less dysfunctional than before Theo put on the gorilla suit and made his escape from Yawkey Way. Oh, yes -- Manny Ramirez and David Wells remain, as well. Within 72 hours, the deal that Hoyer and Ben Cherington -- with Epstein's advice and consent -- had worked on for weeks finally came together. "It is a great trade for the Red Sox," Shapiro said. "Because of the emergence of Grady Sizemore, Coco [Crisp] is probably worth more to Boston than to us because he can play center field. He is a tremendous person whose career is on the ascent. His enormous energy and the fact that he thrives on the stage may make him an even better player in Boston. We had more play on him this winter than anyone else on our roster, but this was the one trade that made sense." Considering that New England obsessed about center field for five weeks, it was a relief to get the one player they wanted most all the way back to September. It was a deal that began in September, with Epstein in charge, and was essentially constructed by Hoyer and Cherington. But allowing Damon to walk and patiently working to get Crisp is what the struggle for the soul of the Red Sox was all about. This will be a far, far different Red Sox team than in 2005; only 11 players remain from their Opening Day roster. Crisp will be in center instead of Damon; Mike Lowell in place of Bill Mueller at third, Kevin Youkilis and J.T. Snow in place of Kevin Millar and John Olerud at first; Alex Gonzalez likely in place of Edgar Renteria at shortstop; Mark Loretta with Alex Cora and Tony Graffanino at second; Josh Beckett in the rotation; and Rudy Seanez, Julian Tavarez, David Riske and possibly Jonathan Papelbon and Lenny DiNardo to reconstruct what was the worst bullpen in the American League. There isn't anyone who doesn't understand that how far the 2006 Red Sox go likely depends on the health -- physical and mental -- of Curt Schilling, Beckett, Keith Foulke, Lowell and Ramirez. But this is a team whose great 2003-2005 run was over. It was an aging, slowing team that in September dropped to fifth in the AL in runs and sixth in OPS after leading in both for five months. If management held the 2004 world champions together, they might have been lapped by the young, talented Tampa Bay Devil Rays in 2007. Now they have added Beckett, Crisp and Youkilis, all at the age (26) when they should be heading toward their career peaks. For years, Epstein has preached that the Red Sox had to start focusing on players on their way up, before they peak. This offseason has been that beginning. If one takes the 2006 projections in the Bill James guide, Crisp's OPS will be .790 with 13 homers; Damon's .786 with 12 homers; Loretta's is .769, compared to the combined .729 Boston had at second in 2005, and it was only above .700 because of Graffanino and Cora the last two months. Youkilis' OPS projects to be .837 with 14 homers; Millar's .802 with 13; Lowell's 782 with 16 homers (projected in Florida's park); and Mueller's .786 with 12 homers (projected in Fenway). Even Gonzalez's projected numbers against Renteria aren't so bad -- .691 with 13 homers for Gonzalez vs. .749 with 10 for Renteria. And by the defensive evaluation system used by one AL team, Gonzalez was one of the top three defensive shortstops, along with Pittsburgh's Jack Wilson and Houston's Adam Everett. Even Dustan Mohr had a .907 OPS vs. left-handed pitchers, albeit playing half his games at Coors Lite. If Lowell comes back to 80 percent of his 2003-2004 numbers, Trot Nixon is in the shape he is rumored to be, and Manny is Manny, then the Red Sox actually could be just as good an offensive team as they were. Because Epstein and Hoyer have been driving forces to put a heavier emphasis on defense, they believe they will be improved at every infield position compared to what they were at the beginning of the 2005 season, with Cora (and, possibly Graffanino) and the acrobatic Snow on the bench. There is strong sentiment to put Papelbon, who will be 25, in the rotation, but where last year they got only 11 starts from Schilling and had to use 10 starters on the year, Terry Francona now has Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Matt Clement, Tim Wakefield, Bronson Arroyo and Papelbon. As some of the veterans fade, by 2007 they could well have Beckett, Papelbon and 22-year-old Jon Lester in the rotation. By signing the relievers, they give time for their prized young arms like Craig Hansen, Edgar Martinez and Manny Delcarmen to develop, and have DiNardo (expected to be in the pen), Abe Alvarez and Cla Meredith for inventory. They had to give up two top prospects and two more great arms for Beckett, but they still will have shortstops Dustin Pedroia and Jed Lowrie and outfielders Brandon Moss, David Murphy and Jacoby Ellsbury in Triple-A Pawtucket by midseason. Like the Red Sox, the Guardians had their share of frustration this winter because of the inflationary free-agent market and their $50M payroll. But if Jason Michaels can repeat his .399 on-base percentage for 400-450 at-bats behind Sizemore, the Guardians' offense could approach 2005, especially if Marte blossoms in the second half and they keep Travis Hafner healthy. The Guardians wanted Trevor Hoffman and had to bring back Bob Wickman, but if Mota can stay healthy for five months -- and he is coming to Cleveland on Monday to begin an offseason conditioning program -- then with Rafael Betancourt, Matt Miller, Fernando Cabrera and Scott Sauerbeck in front of Wickman, the bullpen should be fine. Mota's physical showed him to be strong and very flexible, and when healthy, he is a strikeout reliever. The Red Sox and Guardians know that the Yankees and White Sox begin spring training as the heavy favorites in their respective divisions. But this was in many ways a transition trade for both teams. The Red Sox needed to start getting ascending players, gradually introduce younger farm system products into the mix and take a step back from the institutional obsession with the Yankees. The Guardians have to constantly try to develop long term and compete in the short term until the Ohio economy changes and the fans return in droves to The Jake. "In some ways, it was a painful trade for both teams because we didn't want to trade Marte and they didn't want to trade Crisp," Hoyer said. "But that's probably what makes it a good trade."